Fatal crash in East Haven, CT

Yow.

I heven't read up on the first accident. This one sounds like the impossible turn scenario.
 
I really wish people would stop trying this. Th crash here in Georgia @ WDR last week looks suspiciously like the impossible turn also.
 
Well it looks like it wasn't the "impossible turn" that killed them, it was a stall. Just eyeballing the pics, they probably would have survived a controlled landing on that terrain.
 
When did pilots stop practicing (or CFI's stopped teaching) how much altitude is lost, among other things, in a 180 degree power off turn when safely practiced at altitude?
 
I still think back on one of my lessons, early in training, that was an eye opener for me.

CFI pulled the power and said, "Land this thing". The airport was pretty close, so I set up for a power-off landing. CFI knew something I didn't - we couldn't reach the rwy. I fell into the trap of trying to stretch the glide. CFI had an eye on things to make sure nothing bad happened, but I just happened to glance at the ASI one last time and realized that if I hadn't made that last sanity check, and did not have a CFI supervising, I would have probably stalled at about 50' and a couple hundred feet short of the rwy.

Sometimes the little things can really bite.

I don't know how that accident happened, but a low level stall seems like a bad thing.
 
Remember if you practice this turnback, you probably need more than 180 degrees. A 180 will put you offset from the runway by the diameter of the turn, putting you basically on a downwind. Make the turn more like 240 degrees for the purposes of measuring altitude required, to get you pointed back at the runway at least.
 
Matthew said:
I still think back on one of my lessons, early in training, that was an eye opener for me.

CFI pulled the power and said, "Land this thing". The airport was pretty close, so I set up for a power-off landing. CFI knew something I didn't - we couldn't reach the rwy. I fell into the trap of trying to stretch the glide. CFI had an eye on things to make sure nothing bad happened, but I just happened to glance at the ASI one last time and realized that if I hadn't made that last sanity check, and did not have a CFI supervising, I would have probably stalled at about 50' and a couple hundred feet short of the rwy.

Sometimes the little things can really bite.

I don't know how that accident happened, but a low level stall seems like a bad thing.
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That's a good demo of where I think the real danger of the "impossible turn" lies. It's the psychological draw of the runway. On my private pilot check ride the DPE declared my engine kaput and I picked out the perfect field for an emergency landing. (Since this was a rural area I had a good number of choices.) I established my glide, ran the emergency checks, and started monitoring progress towards that perfect field. It was soon clear that making it was marginal. I chose a closer field and the rest of the drill went fine. The DPE said to not overlook good enough in the pursuit of perfection when it comes to picking an emergency landing site. I put "impossible turn" in quotes because it may or may not be possible in a given situation and the subject always spirals out of control. no pun intended.
 
People think I'm obsessive, but I practice the Impossible Turn, a lot. I have a notation for a ball park critical altitude for every different plane I fly. Since a lot of my flying is at an airport that has hills almost right up to the runway on 3 of the 4 sides, I feel very comfortable with my altitude numbers, working almost anywhere.
 
Something sketchy is going on at that school. I've been hearing some really bad stories about the state of the planes there, among other things.

As for the incident there a few months back - that was the one where people were trying to make it look like a potential terrorist attack, because the CFI (who survived) claimed that the student took controls and force-crashed the plane. The story didn't make a lot of sense, and if you looked at the kid's facebook page he obviously had a true passion for flying. His cover pic was of him kissing the spinner on the plane.

In both the October incident and this one, the CFIs survived and the students died. So, we'll never have the full story. Not sure what to think on the last incident. Not sure what to think on this one.
 
George Mohr said:
Remember if you practice this turnback, you probably need more than 180 degrees. A 180 will put you offset from the runway by the diameter of the turn, putting you basically on a downwind. Make the turn more like 240 degrees for the purposes of measuring altitude required, to get you pointed back at the runway at least.
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And assume that there is a conga line of planes taking off and landing in the way.
 
Ive never practiced one. I think I'll put it on my list of things to do. There was an article, I think I saw the link to it here, that went into a lot of detail on what speeds and angles of bank were best. Anyone recall it?
 
I had no idea there was still a school out there using Tomahawks.
 
Matthew said:
I heven't read up on the first accident.
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https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20161011X64047&key=1
NTSB said:
The investigation of this event is being conducted under the jurisdiction of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). The NTSB provided requested technical assistance to the FBI, and any material generated by the NTSB is under the control of the FBI. The NTSB does not plan to issue a report or open a public docket.
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