Fatal accidents last year in Aviation ?

Southpaw

Southpaw

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Ernest Taft
Just read this report .
Tom Krisher ASSOCIATED PRESS DETROIT ? The new chairman of the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board wants governments and businesses to change the way they look at highway safety, considering the whole system rather than individual driver behavior.

Jennifer Homendy, nominated by President Joe Biden earlier this year, said such an approach works in aviation, where there were no U.S. fatalities last year.
 
Maybe scheduled commercial operations, but certainly not GA as a whole.

Granted people don't treat driving like we do aviation. Every accident is not picked apart on the news. 30,000+ die on the highways each year, and its rarely talked about. A fatal airplane crash easily makes regional news, and sometimes even national news.
 
Imagine the outcry there would be if getting a driver's license was just like getting a private license.

Ohh, and the pizza delivery guy... you need a comercial drivers license and your car has to be inspected by a certified mechanic every 1,000 miles

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Southpaw said:
Just read this report .
Tom Krisher ASSOCIATED PRESS DETROIT ? The new chairman of the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board wants governments and businesses to change the way they look at highway safety, considering the whole system rather than individual driver behavior.
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Nothing wrong with looking at the whole system in order to improve safety, but I hope she doesn't lose track of the fact that one is a whole lot more likely to get killed by individual driver behavior than by any kind of system failure.
 
GaryM said:
Nothing wrong with looking at the whole system in order to improve safety, but I hope she doesn't lose track of the fact that one is a whole lot more likely to get killed by individual driver behavior than by any kind of system failure.
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I think maybe the enormous amount of bad individual driver behavior constitutes failure of the "whole system." Bad driving habits are not only subjective, but they are also practically endorsed. Commercials for vehicles laud their ability to violate every traffic law, although they are required to put a disclaimer that says the "driver" should not be engaging in these activities. I've been driving for more than two decades now without a single ticket, because I agreed to follow the traffic laws in exchange for my privilege to operate a motor vehicle on public roadways, yet my insurances rates are the same as the someone who has had their license revoked for too many "points." So, yeah, the whole system is broken is a valid point.
 
"professional driver on closed course"

Insurance has always infuriated me. It's a gamble and the house always wins

No tickets or moving violations, or accidents I have caused, here either
 
Tantalum said:
No tickets or moving violations, or accidents I have caused, here either
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I was t-boned while riding my motorcycle in college. The other guy had to cross 4 traffic lanes to nail me. Mad skillz.
 
jrollf said:
Ohh, and the pizza delivery guy... you need a comercial drivers license and your car has to be inspected by a certified mechanic every 1,000 miles
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... and get a driver's review with a certified driving instructor every two years at a cost you won't like ...
 
Rich Holt said:
I've been driving for more than two decades now without a single ticket, because I agreed to follow the traffic laws in exchange for my privilege to operate a motor vehicle on public roadways, yet my insurances rates are the same as the someone who has had their license revoked for too many "points."
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Your car insurance rates shouldn't be the same as the bad driver.'s..one's driving record has a huge impact on insurance rates.
 
If driving was regulated like flying, I think we can all agree there would be greater safety, but at what cost and social response.

- Require regular medical evaluations
- Driving Review every two years
- Not allowed to carry passengers at night unless you've logged at least three night trips in the last 90 days
- Vehicles inspected annually (not all states do)
- Random stops to check vehicle and documentation (Not currently permitted by constitution, yet ramp checks are a thing?)
- Simple violations result in suspensions, re-testing or revocations of license.
- Not allowed to operate a larger vehicle without a type rating and recurrent training
- Insurance companies required type specific experience, training, and checkouts. Buy a new car, have to get initial training.

The list could go on and on, kind of fun.
 
midwestpa24 said:
If driving was regulated like flying, I think we can all agree there would be greater safety, but at what cost and social response.

- Require regular medical evaluations
- Driving Review every two years
- Not allowed to carry passengers at night unless you've logged at least three night trips in the last 90 days
- Vehicles inspected annually (not all states do)
- Random stops to check vehicle and documentation (Not currently permitted by constitution, yet ramp checks are a thing?)
- Simple violations result in suspensions, re-testing or revocations of license.
- Not allowed to operate a larger vehicle without a type rating and recurrent training
- Insurance companies required type specific experience, training, and checkouts. Buy a new car, have to get initial training.

The list could go on and on, kind of fun.
Click to expand...
Just think of all the new jobs it would create!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
As driverless vehicles become practical in the next (10?) years, placing stricter limits on driver's licenses becomes less burdensome, as alternative transportation will be available. It may take another generation, but it will happen.
 
Rich Holt said:
I was waiting at a stoplight. Could not move. Judgemental much?
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If you are waiting at a stoplight you keep the bike in gear in case someone does something stupid. You always have a plan. Always room to move somewhere for a bike. You don't belong on one.
 
Rich Holt said:
yet my insurances rates are the same as the someone who has had their license revoked for too many "points."
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That's not true. Car insurers monitor driver's license records and increase the rates of people that have tickets.

My rates finally just got back down to "normal" after my wife backed into my car in the driveway about five years ago.
 
I think it's completely unreasonable to regulate cars like airplanes. That wouldn't make any sense at all. It's no big deal to get in a rental car and drive around a state I've never been to. It's not a big deal because if I take a turn at 5mph too slow my car doesn't fall out of the sky, crash and kill me.
 
azpilot said:
I think it's completely unreasonable to regulate cars like airplanes. That wouldn't make any sense at all. It's no big deal to get in a rental car and drive around a state I've never been to.
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What regulations make that not possible in airplanes?
 
azpilot said:
That's not true. Car insurers monitor driver's license records and increase the rates of people that have tickets.

My rates finally just got back down to "normal" after my wife backed into my car in the driveway about five years ago.
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You don’t have to report every little fender bender, might be better off just to pay for the repairs yourself in some cases, especially if you can do the repairs yourself.
 
jrollf said:
Imagine the outcry there would be if getting a driver's license was just like getting a private license.

Ohh, and the pizza delivery guy... you need a comercial drivers license and your car has to be inspected by a certified mechanic every 1,000 miles

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Don’t give them any ideas.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
You don’t have to report every little fender bender, might be better off just to pay for the repairs yourself in some cases, especially if you can do the repairs yourself.
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Yes, in hindsight, reporting this incident to insurance was a really bad decision.
 
steingar said:
If you are waiting at a stoplight you keep the bike in gear in case someone does something stupid. You always have a plan. Always room to move somewhere for a bike. You don't belong on one.
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Ever consider that he didn't see him coming? I always wear a helmet but they can cut down on peripheral vision and make it harder to see something coming from the side.

BTW congrats on your self appointment as high commissioner of motorcycle safety. I'm sure you'll save a lot of lives running around and telling random people you don't know that they don't belong on their bike. :rolleyes2:
 
azpilot said:
I think it's completely unreasonable to regulate cars like airplanes. That wouldn't make any sense at all. It's no big deal to get in a rental car and drive around a state I've never been to. It's not a big deal because if I take a turn at 5mph too slow my car doesn't fall out of the sky, crash and kill me.
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I think there could be justification for more stringent rules for automobile drivers as the proximity and other interface elements to other vehicles and pedestrians is so much greater.

Drunk airplane pilot vs drunk car driver? I think the drunk car driver is more of a public hazard.
 
MauleSkinner said:
What regulations make that not possible in airplanes?
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You don't need a special endorsement to rent a car with 201 horsepower.

But I understand what you're getting at. My ASEL certificate allows me to fly a Cherokee, even though I passed my checkride in a 172. I was more thinking of the checkout requirements that FBO's have to rent planes. Those are insurance driven, not FAR driven.
 
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Jeff Oslick said:
As driverless vehicles become practical in the next (10?) years, placing stricter limits on driver's licenses becomes less burdensome, as alternative transportation will be available. It may take another generation, but it will happen.
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Truth be told, developing driverless cars is hard... largely because of human drivers. Ban human drivers and AI for driverless cars can get a lot simpler.

Not saying I want this... the same argument could be made of aircraft.

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jrollf said:
Truth be told, developing driverless cars is hard... largely because of human drivers. Ban human drivers and AI for driverless cars can get a lot simpler.
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I wouldn't use the term "simpler"... less complex, sure, but not simpler.

Given the vast spectrum of roads across the USA, we aren't close to driverless cars that can handle everything from coast to coast.

Nevermind the problems of high assurance software development (and security).
 
azpilot said:
You don't need a special endorsement to rent a car with 201 horsepower.

But I understand what you're getting at. My ASEL allows me to fly a Cherokee, even though I passed my checkride in a 172. I was more thinking of the checkout requirements that FBO's have to rent planes. Those are insurance driven, not FAR driven.
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You need a special endorsement to drive a motorcycle. I believe additional endorsements or license levels are required in some states to drive a large RV.

I suspect that the insurance requirements for checkout wouldn’t be so strict if we actually taught about flying, not just flying a 172. Self checkouts really aren’t that tough if you’re willing to do a little study and can correlate what you know to another airplane.
 
Bob Noel said:
...Nevermind the problems of high assurance software development (and security).
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This is what worries me most. In the "utopia" of driverless cars that are all networked together to be "more efficient and safer", a bad actor/terroist figures out his to hack the system and creates mass causulty accidents all over the place at the same time, or mass gridlock brining cities to a vault.

I have no faith in the industry that they will be willing to spend the money on the continious, never ending, job of constantly upgrading software and firmware of "old" models to protect them from newly found exploits in the future. They will be like mobile phone companies, security updates for a few years... then tell you to buy/lease a brand new car and trash the old one as it won't have any real value.

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MauleSkinner said:
Self checkouts really aren’t that tough if you’re willing to do a little study and can correlate what you know to another airplane.
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Completely agree. But my self checkout in my VW golf rental car is really only a few seconds. And I literally can sit in the seat, turn the key can go. It would be incredibly foolish to do that in an airplane you've never flown before.

My only point here is that trying to compare cars and planes is like trying to compare apples and oranges. They're just not the same. I understand the desire to do it, and it makes for an interesting discussion on an airplane forum. And I'd even be supportive of making it more difficult to get a DL. (Here is AZ the official DL written test can be taken at home on the internet, and the driving "practical'" test is about 5 minutes.) But getting a DL should not be the same as getting a pilot certificate.
 
Southpaw said:
Jennifer Homendy, nominated by President Joe Biden earlier this year, said such an approach works in aviation, where there were no U.S. fatalities last year.
Click to expand...

NTSB had an easy year… pilot error? Nope. Covid.

… sorry had to
 
State highways and drivers couldn’t handle the bureaucracy the FAA provides…..let alone the onerous safety measures.
 
We don't need any goofy quick fix think tank to play with traffic safety. Fatalities have been generally trending down forever, because of better automotive design. Maybe once the technology gets to the point where they don't run over as many firemen, and people figure out that it makes sense to actually hold software developers liable for their errors just like engineers, we can mandate that drunks and people caught texting while driving have to buy self-driving cars. Until then, though, things aren't too bad.

Any public official comparing commercial aviation safety to personal motor vehicle safety is either an idiot, or has a hidden agenda. My bet is that it's the latter. So is it the software industry looking for government standards for self driving cars, to pre-empt the reaction to people figuring out that if the car is driving the car, the manufacturer is responsible, not the person sitting behind the wheel? Or is it the insurance industry, who lobbies more than any other group, looking for more money or protection for them? Either way, it's not for the good of any person.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
State highways and drivers couldn’t handle the bureaucracy the FAA provides…..let alone the onerous safety measures.
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Based on my limited observations, drivers can’t handle the bureaucracy that a stop sign provides.
 
steingar said:
If you are waiting at a stoplight you keep the bike in gear in case someone does something stupid. You always have a plan. Always room to move somewhere for a bike. You don't belong on one.
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Why so judgy? Shizz happens. You don't have the right to say who belongs or does not belong on a bike based on a random personal life experience share. Lay off dude.
 
Albany Tom said:
we can mandate that drunks and people caught texting while driving have to buy self-driving cars.
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how about we mandate drunks go into the HIMS program for life or surrender their license?
 
bflynn said:
how about we mandate drunks go into the HIMS program for life or surrender their license?
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That won't deter most drivers that abuse alcohol. And people don't want to think about the large number of drivers out there that do not have a valid license.
 
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