Fastest path to A&P for personal use

bluerooster said:
What about ground up restoration of a certified aircraft?
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I believe that would count but would also require the blessing of a willing A&P to sign off on all work done. Correct?
 
Anyone doing this should document with lots of pix and keep their Experience Log
entries up to date. Do not rely on the Tech doing the write-up; just have the entries ready for their signature. Following a similar path as the rebuild tasks are completed will have the tasks signed in Aircraft Records.

Do not wait until the Project is completed to do this. The Supervising Tech may pass or there could be a falling out. One guy spent thousands of hours doing an
antique biplane that would win an award at Oshkosh. After being paid for his services the Tech refused to verify the rebuilders time. Another person worked for many years under the agreement that the Tech would sign off his experience. Finally the Tech said he would not do so as he became concerned about the IRS.

Note that documentation must be in a manner “satisfactory to the Administrator”.
Do not exclude time that is not signed if you have other evidence. Let the Fed make the call.

btw - “ Bi-plane Guy” is now an IA.
 
I have done all my maintenance including two major overhauls under the supervision of an A&P for 8000 nours. No need to become one. Often a semi-retired mechanic will enjoy teaching if you are mechanically inclined. In general airplanes are a lot simpler than modern automobiles. Most engines use 1930s technology. So you learn on the job and fix your plane at the same time.
 
Snowmass: Depends on how many ticket holders are around and willing to do this. In my case, all of the A&P’s that were willing, are retired or about to, and no longer available. We’re also down to one IA. That’s why I’m going for my tickets and eventually my IA.
 
Is there such thing as an online or hybrid A&P school? I work for a major aerospace manufacturing company and having an A&P would be beneficial for some job opportunities there. The problem is that there is only one school in CT that offers the training and they required you to attend 5 days a week from 7:30-2:30 for two years. They are marketing to high school kids as a college alternative. It just isn't possible to do that type of schedule while working any other type of regular job. If there was a school where you did all the classes and bookwork online or through zoom with occasional travel to the school for the hands on portion I would be all in.
 
Many schools offer on- line classes of all types. My thought is it would require much

more than “ occasional travel” to fulfill the hands-on requirements though.

Some Part 147 Schools have “ satellites” that offer some portion of the program .
 
kmacht said:
Is there such thing as an online or hybrid A&P school?
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With the rewrite of Part 147, this could become more a reality in the near future. Once the new A&P training standards go into effect this June(?) you may see more distance learning options under Part 147. Its my understanding the Dept of Education is going to be involved as a means to get the FAA learning requirement more in line with current educational standards. However, to get to a true hybrid level there will need to be a revision to Part 65 especially if one can combine 147 classes/credits with 65.77 experience credits. And its quite possible it will get to that level. The link in Post 31 gives a good overview on the 147 changes.
 
I recall some Part 147 Schools had a curriculum that permitted use of work experience to meet the minimum. I’m unsure whether this was with a
internship/apprentice program they were affiliated with or it allowed for
prior time.

They used to advertise that they had the shortest time to complete Certification.
 
I just think there’s a lot one can do on their plane without an A&P license. No I’m not talking illegal, I’m also not talking ‘safety of flight’ items, especially those over the head of the person’s ability.

One could develop a relationship where the work could be inspected then ‘signed off’. I know we joke about the ‘hangar fairy’s’ fixing things, most often non-critical items.
 
sourdough44 said:
I just think there’s a lot one can do on their plane without an A&P license.
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Exactly. And the best part is they can also sign-off their work. Make the task fit into one of the 31 categories under preventive mx and there is a lot of work that can be done without the need of an A&P. I had a client who refurbished the entire exterior and interior of his TC'd aircraft solely under his PPC. The only items I needed to approve for return service were those tasks outside of preventive mx like flight control install, windshield install, W&B, etc. I didn't even have to make a single write up as he entered them all. I have always been puzzled why such a small percentage of owners don't take advantage of the options in Part 43.
sourdough44 said:
I know we joke about the ‘hangar fairy’s’ fixing things, most often non-critical items.
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In my experience, hangar fairies are those who perform work but do not sign off their work regardless of the task. Whats even more unusual is that in some instances they can legally sign for the work. However, all work on a TC aircraft must be entered in the record and signed off except those items that fall under or are listed under preflight tasks.
Magman said:
They used to advertise that they had the shortest time to complete Certification.
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FWIW: prior to the recent Part 147 rewrite there was a minimum "seat time" in class a person needed to get an A&P. Miss that minimum and you had to retake that module or class. There were some schools that ran 6 days week, 12 hours a day so they could technically get people out "quicker" than a school that ran 5 days a week and 8-5.
 
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I’ve been involved with a lot of folks that spend a considerable amount of time
involved with the maintenance aspects of their aircraft. The BEST ones engage in telephone calls and pix via cell or e- mail. A typical conversation may involve
“ lube torque or dry torque?” They actually have a torque wrench and do use it.

To me a “Hangar Fairy” is someone who performs a task in a way that they believe is proper. There is little or no concern for torque wrenches and Service Manuals. They often conceal their efforts as the KNOW it is not I/a/w any Tech Data. The word often gets around as few people want this going on at their strip.
There are even folks that will do things like o/h a cylinder and then say; “ It’s ready for you to sign!” Ready for me to run is more correct.

IMHO the type of aircraft and the financial status of the owner have little to do with what category the folks fall into.


One of the things students are not aware of is how subjects may be “ grouped”.
All Part 147 Schools have to cover the same material but not in the same sequence. Hence one school may use Block 3 for Weight and Balance and Corrosion Control. Another school may use Block 3 for Weight and Balance - Part 1 and Aircraft Hardware. They write their Curriculum to most effectively use their staff and facilities. This can be a problem when transferring Student Records.
 
kmacht said:
Is there such thing as an online or hybrid A&P school? I work for a major aerospace manufacturing company and having an A&P would be beneficial for some job opportunities there. The problem is that there is only one school in CT that offers the training and they required you to attend 5 days a week from 7:30-2:30 for two years. They are marketing to high school kids as a college alternative. It just isn't possible to do that type of schedule while working any other type of regular job. If there was a school where you did all the classes and bookwork online or through zoom with occasional travel to the school for the hands on portion I would be all in.
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I was looking for the same but never found one where I was living so i apprenticed.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I'm approaching 60 and realizing life is short. I co-own a successful business and over the next 2 years will be dialing back my management role.

Currently I am rebuilding my Decathlon under supervision of a close friend who collects and restores vintage aircraft. I will probably log 500-1000 hours of experience by the time I am done this summer.

He's very game to help me get my A&P. He owns some crazy cool airplanes, including several big twin radials. I could get a lot of unique experience helping him work on them.

Thinking of how much I would enjoy working on my airplane and others in my semi-retirement. I really enjoy electrical and avionics work. I have a computer science degree with coursework in electrical engineering, so I find modern electronic devices easy to understand.

Should I continue to work with my buddy to log enough hours in all required areas to take the tests? At current rate that will take several years. Should I look into an accelerated program? How about a combination of the two approaches?
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If you enjoy the job then go for it. Im 61 and have been at the job since 1976. If you're doing it for retirement, then why not go and please yourself. If you dont, you'll always wonder what it could have been like. Ive known A&P's that wrenched into their 80's and they really enjoyed just tinkering with their tools and airplanes.
 
One of the issues is that folks that have not been “ down the road” vastly

underestimate the learning that is required. MIL guys may be oblivious to fabric

and mags. Light aircraft people have zero insight into a CSD and pressurization.

Helicopters are another world. Shortening the time would make it extremely

difficult to really learn anything.


For various reasons in many areas it’s nearly impossible to find anyone that wants

a CAREER of working on light aircraft. Relying on a person to provide a sign- off

will likely decrease as well as labor charges increase. Some folks should look

ahead and consider logging time for that eventuality.


Things do change; I had to do a woven cable splice and plywood scarf patches!
 
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