This. My instructor showed me the big difference between 65kias and 60kias on landing. He even had me do one at 55 so I would be comfortable keeping 60.
Failed my PPL checkride
- Thread starter texasclouds
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This. My instructor showed me the big difference between 65kias and 60kias on landing. He even had me do one at 55 so I would be comfortable keeping 60.
Rgbeard
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I just did a real short-field in the T-Lance yesterday, as part of my Flight Review. Came in at 76 over the fence, full flaps, and got it in shorter than I thought almost was possible.
Even after you pass your PPL checkride, life's still a learning experience.
Relax, and it'll happen.
Even after you pass your PPL checkride, life's still a learning experience.Relax, and it'll happen.
I just did a real short-field in the T-Lance yesterday, as part of my Flight Review. Came in at 76 over the fence, full flaps, and got it in shorter than I thought almost was possible.
Relax, and it'll happen.
@Rgbeard How much power did it take on short final to maintain 76 kts? The Saratoga II I flew took a whole fist full of power along with a large deck angle to land at 76!
Brad Smith
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Not all DPE's are created equal. Some would allow you to go around the patch a couple more times to prove competency. I think screaming at you is bad form for any DPE. Perhaps he just wanted another $300 tour of the local area?
texasclouds
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Well maybe he wasn't screaming, probably more of a spirited high volume instruction.
danhagan
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I doubt it. I did my PPL practical with crosswind. Told DPE prior to start that the crosswind component would exceed the POH limitations (which we had *THAT* discussion as well on the way to the runway). As soon as the super AWOS indicated it was one knot under POH limitation we departed - and it was above the rest of the exam time. Short and soft I was crabbed pretty good. For the short I got a curve and he indicated to be fully stopped before the first taxiway (1500 feet) ... wasn't hard to do.
Reason for bringing all this up? I had to fly an extra circuit at the end as he indicated he EXPECTED me to have to perform a go around due to wind and that was the purpose of continuing the test ... to students, if they expect to see a go-around USE IT ... mine was basically a waste waiting for him to announce when to do it (he had me put the mains on).
Rgbeard
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rgbeard
Didn't take that much. All sub-15".
A couple of points:
1) You haven't failed the checkride; you simply need more than one flight to complete it. No big deal.
2) Students don't fail checkrides anyway. CFIs do. If a student doesn't pass, the fault primarily lies with the instructor who endorsed the student as being ready.
1) You haven't failed the checkride; you simply need more than one flight to complete it. No big deal.
2) Students don't fail checkrides anyway. CFIs do. If a student doesn't pass, the fault primarily lies with the instructor who endorsed the student as being ready.
dmspilot
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Wow, give me a break. At some point the student has to take responsibility for themselves. The instructor can't learn on the student's behalf. This attitude is completely unhelpful.
mtuomi
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You have a POH limitation for crosswind? How much is it?
Ravioli
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@danhagan wrote "Told DPE prior to start that the crosswind component would exceed the POH limitations (which we had *THAT* discussion as well on the way to the runway)"
Have either your CFI or the DPE corrected this statement? Max demonstrated crosswind is NOT a limitation. Do some searches on the topic, it's been discussed here before.
Meanwhile... shake it off... and then finish your ride.
Have either your CFI or the DPE corrected this statement? Max demonstrated crosswind is NOT a limitation. Do some searches on the topic, it's been discussed here before.
Meanwhile... shake it off... and then finish your ride.
PaulS
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The crosswind figures I've seen are demonstrated numbers, not limitations.
Kritchlow
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Not necessarily for most airplanes discussed on this forum, but some are indeed limitations.
That said, if you exceed a demonstrated max, and have an incident while doing so, the Feds will treat it as a limitation.
danhagan
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This was 12 years ago ... and also why I said we had *THAT* discussion (meaning not a limitation - but maybe not smart to exceed on the PPL). Was just informing the DPE that we were above it and later in the test, we were WELL above it.
They have to see a go around, so you calling it on a flubbed approach would be better than saving it. I didn't need to and forgot all about it, until he said he needed to see one.
danhagan
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For the 152 I trained in 12-13 years ago, it was listed at 12 knots ... but as stated earlier, this is max demonstrated. If you're on a checkride, and winds are exceeding it, it'd be stupid not have a discussion with the DPE if electing to press on ...
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
Sometimes demonstrated numbers make good limitations.
DPE - "What are the crosswind limitations?"
Student - "Sir, the book numbers are the demonstrated crosswind and are not limitations."
DPE - "So, you're going to fly when the xwind is greater than demonstrated?"
Student - "No sir, my personal limitations are to stay within the demonstrated abilities of the aircraft. With experience, I'll be better able to determine the limit."
DPE - "Smart, this one is."
DPE - "What are the crosswind limitations?"
Student - "Sir, the book numbers are the demonstrated crosswind and are not limitations."
DPE - "So, you're going to fly when the xwind is greater than demonstrated?"
Student - "No sir, my personal limitations are to stay within the demonstrated abilities of the aircraft. With experience, I'll be better able to determine the limit."
DPE - "Smart, this one is."
I have to agree with @dmspilot here. Sure a student cant endorse himself but that doesn't mean the student isn't responsible for themselves in ensuring they are ready for the checkride. I know some students who have even needed to be "kicked out of the nest" so to speak; either they were happy with the privileges and responsibilities they had as a student pilot or they were convinced they weren't ready for the checkride, I dont know which but a CFI's endorsement is only a prerequisite to taking the test... Preparing for, scheduling and taking the test are typically all on the student.
I'd also point out that students sometimes DO fail checkrides. It happens. Maybe it was an off-day or something.
I've only had to re-do one checkride but when I look at each of my checkrides, I could easily find things that were not to my normal standard.
On my 2 most recent checkrides:
CPL - I let my heading wander a bit during slow flight. Slow flight and stalls were the one maneuver that my instructor didnt have any real input on because I nailed it so well when flying with him. Slow flight and flying the stall are part of the things that I like demonstrating because so many are freaked out by the very idea of a stall. Yet for whatever reason during my checkride, I was just off; maybe it was jitters or visibility and lack of good visual landmarks due to haze or any of a number of different things but I was very unhappy with myself after doing it... The DPE did comment that I let my heading wander but I did correct it and I still managed to perform within the ACS standard but I was still upset with my performance overall.
CFI-A - The only checkride I've had to take twice. I passed a 4.6 hour oral, went flying for 1.4 hours and came back and had to demonstrate a shortfield, softfield takeoff and landing and a go-around. Knowing how close I was excitement started to kick in but so too did the fatigue of a long and stressful day (delayed 45 min by traffic on my way to the airport, then had to fly 1 hour xc to get to DPE that required an unexpected IFR clearance for the ILS to get in thanks to a broken layer of clouds at 1100 ft, followed by the 4.6 hour oral [6 hours when factoring in breaks and administrative portion] and a 1.4 hour flight that had some higher gusty winds we were pushing on 11+ hours since I had left the house by the time we landed) and I landed long and really dropped it in a gusty crosswind on my first landing attempt which just ratcheted up my anxiety as I could see the checkride slipping through my fingers.
We taxi backed and I proceeded to instruct on a shortfield takeoff during which I uttered the words "accelerate in ground effect." The DPE looked at me and said "what did I ask you to show me/what did you just teach me?" to which I responded with the immediate "a short field takeoff," then he said "are you sure?" so I thought back on it and realized what I said and how I slipped up and told him. Unfortunately the damage was done and he had to disapprove because I taught an incorrect maneuver. Was that my instructor's fault? Nope. It was totally my own. I knew it, I just screwed it up. The DPE knew I knew it but couldnt ignore that I screwed it up. My instructor knew I knew it and when we went out to do the remedial lesson pretty much just went along for the ride. My retest was 0.4 and 3 laps around the pattern.
Sure maybe the CFI can be considered its own entity but I'm sure I could find other mistakes, completely of my own making, in other flights and checkrides...
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