I know that it's "do-able", but the mtns are to your right and in front of you! That would just make me very nervous!
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Failed engine on a night flight...
- Thread starter Tracey
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TMetzinger
Final Approach
Yes you'll have to know where they are and where you are. Certainly nothing you'd want to do without being familiar with the area.
Don't get me wrong, I applaud caution. It's just that too much caution stunts growth, in children and in pilots.
Edit: Hmm, is there a difference?
Don't get me wrong, I applaud caution. It's just that too much caution stunts growth, in children and in pilots.
Edit: Hmm, is there a difference?
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
I don't think there is an option for a PP with Night Flying restriction....
If I read it right, it exists in 61.110 (c)
dmccormack
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dan Mc
And rightly so.
Many airports have Departure Procedures meant for IFR, but it doesn't hurt to look them over and see what the recommendations might be. For example, the airport I used to fly out of had this to say about an IMC departure:
TAKEOFF MINIMUMS: RWY 14, NA-OBSTACLES. DEPARTURE PROCEDURE: RWY 14, NA
In other words: It's not available for takeoff in low visibility conditions. Many nights are "low visibility.," even if they are not legally "IMC."
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
Wow Troy! You pointed out something else I need to check out in Foreflight. It hadn't registered in my weak brain that FF has street maps.
You learn something new every day around here.
TangoWhiskey
Touchdown! Greaser!
I switched to Street Map view in FF while I was playing with my iPad during my wife's turn to drive during last weekend's drive from DFW to KC. That's what gave me the idea. Was weird seeing my Airplane icon traveling north on I-35.
denverpilot
Tied Down
I switched to Street Map view in FF while I was playing with my iPad during my wife's turn to drive during last weekend's drive from DFW to KC. That's what gave me the idea. Was weird seeing my Airplane icon traveling north on I-35.
I Follow Roads!
spinfire
Pre-takeoff checklist
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Dan
My instructor took me there on my night XC on purpose - it is certainly more challenging. There was not much moon that night either! It is actually left traffic for 26, and that is the runway we were using. It does have a PAPI which is a huge help at night. Other than that you know if you are at pattern altitude, altimeter set correctly, and fly a reasonably close pattern you have a very safe margin above the hills.
The hills south of the airport also have obstruction lights on them. You can't see them during the day but at night there are steady red lights marking the rising terrain. Creepy at night, but a nice assurance that you have plenty of clearance.
The hills south of the airport also have obstruction lights on them. You can't see them during the day but at night there are steady red lights marking the rising terrain. Creepy at night, but a nice assurance that you have plenty of clearance.
I knew that. I was thinking that you have to stay between the mtns and the runway, so it's not quite your run-of-the-mill runway, that's for sure. (Somehow that morphed into right traffic... go figure).
Anyway, excellent job landing there at night!
We topped it off before heading out. Well, actually *I* got to top it off, so that was fun too. And yes, that made me feel much better about things! Thanks Geico!Since approximatly 90% of engine failures at night are caused by running out of fuel I suggest working the odds to your favor and increasing minimum fuel at night to 2 hours reserve. Problem solved statistically speaking.
Flying at night is the best! Enjoy it!
dell30rb
Final Approach
I enjoy night flying
Still I find it only accounts for about 10% of my flying. This number will go up once I earn the IR and can do more long distance x/c's at night. My weather mins for a night vfr 350nm trip over the appalachians are rarely met.
One rule I stick by:
No unfamiliar small private airports at night. I want a 3000+ foot paved, lit runway preferably with a visual glide slope system. Fly a very deliberate pattern and use the guidance.
Still I find it only accounts for about 10% of my flying. This number will go up once I earn the IR and can do more long distance x/c's at night. My weather mins for a night vfr 350nm trip over the appalachians are rarely met.
One rule I stick by:
No unfamiliar small private airports at night. I want a 3000+ foot paved, lit runway preferably with a visual glide slope system. Fly a very deliberate pattern and use the guidance.
And those are good rules to stick by!
ChrisK
En-Route
Huh. Neat.
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...B4AA273C9EB512CF86256EE1004BE05D?OpenDocument
FARPart61 said:
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
TripleZ
Pre-takeoff checklist
+1
Ask your instructor about the "Black Hole of Death" for a straight in approach. No glide slope, night, big runway, dark area between you and the runway, and you plant the plane in short.
I got to experience this without the death part (CFI, no glide slope, hid the GPS display, landing at GRB with a straight in 10 mile approach), and had an Arrow fully configured for short final (slow and low) 2 miles from the runway. Night can be deceptive.
But soooo much fun and beautiful.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Seriously, I would rather fly at night. Calm air, less traffic, cool temps, and a sense of danger that is unfounded. A young person like you will have night vision like an owl. You will do just fine. Practice.
Have fun !
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dell30rb
Final Approach
Ha i've had that and more. Did a few laps around the pattern w my instructor with a simulated electrical failure at night.. No landing light and all lights turned off in the cockpit, i couldn't see a damn thing on the panel.
Still that was at the home drome. I would be perfectly comfy repeating that performance at a larger public airport. But I use extra caution when landing at new airports at night. Nothing extreme, just am careful to fly a standard pattern and use a stabilized approach.
Oh wow... what a good learning experience that would be. So you only had the runway lights and the 'feel' of the airplane. I'm going to ask if we can do that on our next flight.
dmccormack
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Dan Mc
This is the reaosn every pilot should have a working flashlight in the cockpit.
Sure, you should be able to fly the airplane by "feel" alone. But you cannot "feel" altitude and it's important to know how high above the hurty-bangy stuff you actually are.
My technique for "black hole" approaches (which I avoid, but it happens) is to remain high and then slip to lose lots of altitude once I can see the numbers.
There is no reason to hit the numbers on a black hole approach, and you're really dumb if you're trying to do a short field at night over a black hole...
dell30rb
Final Approach
Good point, and my instructor did stress that I should have at least 2 working flashlights in the cockpit for night flight. And I always do. You should never find yourself at night without one. Due to the crappy panel lighting in the 152 I am usually seen at night wearing a headlamp with red and white LED's.
In our case I think he would flip the lights off as I was turning final. We have a visual glide slope. It was a little strange but really a non-event.
My instructor is about 80 and has been flying since 1950. He probably has at least 3000 hours in a J-3 cub. He told me he got caught out at night a few times in his younger days. He's lost an engine, at night, in IMC and flopped a plane into a snow covered cornfield. I'm guessing he's had to do this before.
I think the primary reason for the drill was just to build my skills and confidence - so that if I was faced with a similar emergency I would not freak out.
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That's what I wore on our night flight and now I have a bruise on my forehead. Guess it was too tight, d'oh!
FlySince9
En-Route
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Hopefully it doesn't look like a forehead hickey, gross!
You actually can't see it, but I was washing my face and wondered why my forehead hurt when I touched it.... then it dawned on me: a too tight headlamp.
dell30rb
Final Approach
Yeah the first time I flew this airplane at night I was getting some simulated IMC time and shooting an approach to a new airport. I was concentrating so hard and couldn't figure out why I had a headache. Whoops, headlamp too tight.
Exactly! I was wondering why my headset was suddently hurting.... and then I came to the same conclusion. Rookie mistake! (Watch me do it again now...).
TMetzinger
Final Approach
When you're over 20, they're called "love bites". See "Moonstruck":
"You've got a love bite on your neck -- he's coming back this morning -- what's the matter with you? Your life's going down the toilet! Cover up that damn thing, come on, put some makeup on it!"
When I first saw the movie I thought it was a comedy. Then I married an Italian and realized it was a documentary.
Now THAT'S funny!
azure
Final Approach
Mine has a band that's wide enough that even though it hurts if it's too tight, it has never left a bruise. It does leave a fairly long-lasting indentation though.
azure
Final Approach
Ditto. At unfamiliar airports at night, I prefer an instrument approach with vertical guidance (ILS, LPV, or LNAV+V). But with a working VASI or PAPI, I will land just about anywhere around here. After a recent visit to upstate NY, I know that I would absolutely insist on the IAP in the mountains (and respect the NA at night notes even though VFR). There are a few places in northern MI where terrain would be a concern too (FKS for one).
It's when there is no visual glide slope system that I get choosy. Staying above all obstacles until you see the numbers and then slip it in? I don't see how you'll ever see the numbers from 300 feet at a black hole airport unless your landing light is aimed a lot lower than mine is. Basically if it is a black hole I will NOT land there at night unless it has a visual glide slope system. I have never landed on 4 at 76G at night and probably never will unless Bill gets his PAPI fixed. I once tried a night landing on 36 at 3DA, then aborted because of what looked like a snowdrift across the runway. That was with enough snow on the ground to make it not really a black hole. In the summer, I wouldn't consider a night landing there on 36, only on 18 where the arrival end is better lit.
MN_Flyer
Pre-takeoff checklist
Get one of these. I found them discounted at a surplus store near me, but $22 isn't a complete rip-off either. I clip it on the upholstery under the side window and aim the light over my yoke clip. Home depot also sells a nice flashlight with both a white and red LED. This will save you from the permanent red sweatband mark across your forehead. Most pilot shops also sells a red light that clips on the bill of a baseball hat if that is more your style.
http://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/5434
http://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/5434
Great ideas, thank you!
onwards
Pattern Altitude
Well, you're right that it's generally true, but Kim, if you want a more memorable experience, you can always do what I did once - decide to fly over the Diablo Range on a moonless night (back from Harris Ranch), only to have the moving map GPS unit shut itself down. Still didn't have the iPad and FF at that time. Had to fly using the compass and once I got my heartbeat back, the VOR (I think I used OAK) over an unlit mountain range at night. Thankfully they were low enough that I knew staying above 6000ft will not run the risk of running into anything, and the whole thing was uneventful. Still, the few minutes I spent up there all alone in total darkness before the line of lights from the bay came into view felt like a lot longer than that.
Having now taken a number of IFR lessons, that was an instrument flight of sorts, even though the sky was clear and conditions were VFR. You know, these experience are very valuable, I really do learn from them
By the way, another area like that where you fly a lot is right around Lake Berryessa. Try that at night. Or maybe don't :wink2:
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
No thank you and I still don't fly with GPS, though I will learn how to use the darn things soon enough since my new rentals all have one.... I got a DVD on the yoke mounted one but I think pilotage is a good skill / maps / navigation. I don't want to rely on a GPS and I only fly on full moon nights on paths I know aka the Bay Tour. No "new" stuff at night, no thank you.
Even though airplane engines are incredibly reliable and sturdy, other things can go wrong unrelated to the engine.
Keep on your toes, folks.
Keep on your toes, folks.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Like O-Rings?
O-rings, that lead to a nearly complete hydraulic failure with smoke in the cockpit at night.
I say "nearly" because there was enough hydraulic pressure to use the emergency gear pump.
gprellwitz
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Actually, that was loggable IMC!Having now taken a number of IFR lessons, that was an instrument flight of sorts, even though the sky was clear and conditions were VFR. You know, these experience are very valuable, I really do learn from them
Richard
Final Approach
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Ack...city life
Yeah I have ideas but I think you are making this up. Did your CFI really say you are hosed? If so, find another CFI. Seriously.