Factory reman. vs MOH

Tom-D said:
Send any engine to the factory that has been run on auto fuel, see what they allow for core charge.
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How in the world will the factory know the engine's been run on auto fuel? Do you sent them your fuel receipts along with the engine? And do you have any documentation on factory letterhead to support that contention? Your post is the first I've ever heard of such a factory practice.
 
Ron Levy said:
How in the world will the factory know the engine's been run on auto fuel?

AS soon as they get it, they can smell it, also the carbon deposits are different..

Do you sent them your fuel receipts along with the engine? And do you have any documentation on factory letterhead to support that contention? Your post is the first I've ever heard of such a factory practice.
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I sent one to Continental they refused it as a core, I ended up rebuilding my self. rather than buying all new parts.
 
Tom-D said:
What would you call this?
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Nothing says you can't use them, you could use a piece of a grocery bag if you wanted as long as it has the required information of Part 43 written on it. No where in the FAR's does it specify "yellow tag" or any other color "tag".

However, the FAA is moving towards a system using the 8130 form for standardization, record keeping and traceability.


http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/d6aa8134a13d900686257274004ebfba/$FILE/Order%208130.21E.pdf

201. GENERAL INFORMATION ON DOMESTIC AIRWORTHINESS APPROVALS.
a. Form 8130-3 is the preferred method for documenting the approval of products, parts, and appliances considered approved by the Administrator. The FAA recommends that each PAH include Form 8130-3 for all eligible product, part, and appliance shipments. This will help the aviation authorities and the industry to ensure complete traceability, and ease the movement of products, parts, and appliances through the aviation system.

303. APPROVAL FOR RETURN TO SERVICE — PRODUCTS AND PARTS.
a. Products and parts may be inspected and approved for return to service by persons authorized under paragraph 301a of this order. Issuance of Form 8130-3 for this purpose is optional, but the FAA recommends its use. This will help aviation authorities and the industry to ensure complete traceability and ease the movement of products and parts through the aviation system.
 
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Rotor&Wing said:
Nothing says you can't use them, you could use a piece of a grocery bag if you wanted as long as it has the required information of Part 43 written on it. No where in the FAR's does it specify "yellow tag" or any other color "tag".

However, the FAA is moving towards a system using the 8130 form for standardization, record keeping and traceability.

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/international/export_aw_approval/media/8130-3QA.pdf

201. GENERAL INFORMATION ON DOMESTIC AIRWORTHINESS APPROVALS.
a. Form 8130-3 is the preferred method for documenting the approval of products, parts, and appliances considered approved by the Administrator. The FAA recommends that each PAH include Form 8130-3 for all eligible product, part, and appliance shipments. This will help the aviation authorities and the industry to ensure complete traceability, and ease the movement of products, parts, and appliances through the aviation system.

303. APPROVAL FOR RETURN TO SERVICE — PRODUCTS AND PARTS.
a. Products and parts may be inspected and approved for return to service by persons authorized under paragraph 301a of this order. Issuance of Form 8130-3 for this purpose is optional, but the FAA recommends its use. This will help aviation authorities and the industry to ensure complete traceability and ease the movement of products and parts through the aviation system.
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I call it a yellow tag, that tells me who worked on it, and what they did.
In this case it was Zepher Engines last month. That's good enough for me, as it was not damaged during shipment.

I make the call as to airworthiness on any part I instal.
 
Ron Levy said:
And do you have any documentation on factory letterhead to support that contention?.
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Yes I do, but I am not violating my customer's privacy by posting it here.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Nothing says you can't use them, you could use a piece of a grocery bag if you wanted as long as it has the required information of Part 43 written on it. No where in the FAR's does it specify "yellow tag" or any other color "tag".

However, the FAA is moving towards a system using the 8130 form for standardization, record keeping and traceability.

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/international/export_aw_approval/media/8130-3QA.pdf

201. GENERAL INFORMATION ON DOMESTIC AIRWORTHINESS APPROVALS.
a. Form 8130-3 is the preferred method for documenting the approval of products, parts, and appliances considered approved by the Administrator. The FAA recommends that each PAH include Form 8130-3 for all eligible product, part, and appliance shipments. This will help the aviation authorities and the industry to ensure complete traceability, and ease the movement of products, parts, and appliances through the aviation system.

303. APPROVAL FOR RETURN TO SERVICE — PRODUCTS AND PARTS.
a. Products and parts may be inspected and approved for return to service by persons authorized under paragraph 301a of this order. Issuance of Form 8130-3 for this purpose is optional, but the FAA recommends its use. This will help aviation authorities and the industry to ensure complete traceability and ease the movement of products and parts through the aviation system.
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JOOC, what if anything are mechanics and/or owners required to do with the 8130s that come with a part installed on an airplane?

Is there any reason to keep them around once the part is determined to be airworthy and installed?

Are they required to be kept with the written logs?

I have a pile of them around for my plane but they aren't organized in any way and several for minor things like a new flexible duct or a replacement nav light bulb have been tossed.
 
Lance: I do the same thing you do on inconsequential stuff, but more durable things that could fail are safely filed with my logs.

Had to dig out the tags on my Millineum cylinders recently. Didn't do any good as they weren't factory new when put on. Still had to go to the plane to get serial numbers but it did show the part source; when purchased, etc.

As bad as I'm hearing things are out there, maybe we should get 'factory repoed' engines <g>

Best,

Dave
 
gismo said:
JOOC, what if anything are mechanics and/or owners required to do with the 8130s that come with a part installed on an airplane?

Is there any reason to keep them around once the part is determined to be airworthy and installed?

Are they required to be kept with the written logs?

I have a pile of them around for my plane but they aren't organized in any way and several for minor things like a new flexible duct or a replacement nav light bulb have been tossed.
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Essentially for a Part 91 operator there is no requirement to keep the FAA 8130 once the part is installed and properly signed off as per FAR 43.

However, for good record keeping I would suggest keeping and filing each one in the aircraft records. You never know when having this information may be beneficial to you later on such as AD note compliance or if you are having a problem with the installed item, etc.
 
weirdjim said:
Back when I worked for the airlines, a GREEN tag was attached to a repairable component, not white.

Jim
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And the airline I currently work for uses a WHITE one for that purpose. And your point is??

And I have seen every color under the sun used, as stated previously "it doesn't matter as to what color it is". One time I was ordering a part for my helicopter operation and I asked the salesman to make sure a yellow tag was included and he replied "I have tags of all kinds of pretty colors, take your pick." Kinda sums it up.
 
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Tom-D said:
Yes I do, but I am not violating my customer's privacy by posting it here.
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Im sure a xerox and a magic marker can redact enough identifying info without obliterating the message.

I call for hip waders as well.

How in the hell can the factory tell that autofuel was used? The absence of adverse lead fouling?
 
I get a bit nervous about the independent rebuilders, especially those who have a hard time keeping the doors open and seem to have revolving-door ownership and corporate identities. If Smokewall Backward in Colorado rebuilt your engine and shortly thereafter reorganized and emerged as New Smokewall Backward, how good is your warranty claim?

Dave Siciliano said:
Y'all are way past me. Heck, it's all I can do to stay proficient flying the darned plane!
My 2 cents is if one gets a factory new or rebuilt engine; it's a known commodity if they later need to sell the plane. Boutique shops may do wonderful work, but if the buyer doesn't know them or they are no longer in business, it doesn't help. (I am about to have two rebuilt by a boutique shop; so, I must be planning on keeping the plane awhile <g>)

Best,

Dave
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Good example Wayne. I have a couple friends flying around with Ultimate Engines; not only are they not around, but, before they departed, key folks changed. One thing that really bothers me about big shops like Bam Engines, is WHO is fixing the engine. Yes, Bam may stand behind the work, but I'd like to know WHO is actually making the repair/reman, whatever. Many big shops don't like to share that information unless you really push them.

Best,

Dave
 
Ron Levy said:
And just how did they find out auto gas had been used in it? Smell?
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Carbon deposits are different

No lead sludge in the oil sump.

no lead in the combustion chamber

Hard glossy carbon deposits on the valve stems.

and several other obvious things the factory.
 
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Rotor&Wing said:
Well, if they're truly "oblivious" to it then they really wouldn't notice the "obvious" details would they? :rolleyes:
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see what I get for using the Firefox spell checker.
 
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