FAA wants more CVR time

[Daleandee]

The FAA proposes lengthening cockpit voice recording time to 25 hours. This is being driven by recent events, of which runway incursions are near the top of the list.

The rulemaking process can take multiple years, and the agency added it would welcome intervention from Congress on the matter. The FAA has previously said it did not pursue regulations in this area because it had other priorities.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/faa-cockpit-recording-time-safety-summit/index.html

 

[Brad Z]

I think it makes sense. I’m curious if the pilot unions will have an issue with this, since CVRs aren’t typically dissected for incidents that don’t result in accidents.

 

[Kritchlow]

I think it makes sense. I’m curious if the pilot unions will have an issue with this, since CVRs aren’t typically dissected for incidents that don’t result in accidents.

I don’t see it being an issue, as CVR recordings cannot be used to discipline pilots. They can only be used for the incident at hand.

 

[Pinecone]

Also FDR recordings have been 25 hours for some time.

Although, with modern sat data systems why FDR data is not live streamed to land based storage, including nav data.

 

[Bell206]

The FAA proposes lengthening cockpit voice recording time to 25 hours.

The 25 hr CVR has been on the list for a number of years in many countries. As mentioned the FDR has been 25 hrs for quite some time starting back in the 90s. ICAO even has 25hr CVR guidance but currently issues exemptions from that guidance. Will be interesting to see what politics crop up against it.

why FDR data is not live streamed to land based storage

Data amounts and cost are the biggest issues. And the data amounts are rather large per flight. Regardless, Immarsat has been working on a service to store FDR data in the cloud but its still a tough sell. So unless it becomes regulatory is will remain an option like other existing streamed aircraft/engine monitor systems are.

 

[Domenick]

During the MH370 search, I believe we learned Rolls Royce streamed at least some engine data back to the mothership. It may have been periodic data bursts rather than a live stream.

 

[Bell206]

During the MH370 search, I believe we learned Rolls Royce streamed at least some engine data back to the mothership.

Same with AF447. Air France got maintenance error messages via the Airbus system which assisted in the failure sequence. As I recall these monitoring services use the existing ACARS system but are very limited on amount of data sent. MH wasn't a subscriber of these services but I believe RR routinely samples engine trends across the fleet via this system.

 

[mandm]

Interesting how some data is sent or for what purposes exactly.

 

[midwestpa24]

Interesting how some data is sent or for what purposes exactly.

I'm sure the airlines and people that work on them knew, but I think AF447 and MH370 were the first time it was revealed to the general population that airliners report back to the airframe and engine manufacturers with operating data. I'm sure it helps from a QC/QA standpoint, as well as future innovation. No privacy issues for an airliner.

With today's technology, cars are starting to do the same. If my truck has an error, like snow covering a sensor, I get a message through the Ford app of a problem, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ford did too. We have all heard about the information and control Tesla maintains over their products.

 

[Bell206]

I'm sure it helps from a QC/QA standpoint, as well as future innovation.

Actually the first monitor systems were to shorten turnaround times. That was the purpose of the Airbus system on 447. If maintenance had error codes in advance they could possibly have a solution waiting when the aircraft landed and fixed before the next flight. There are now a number of HUMS systems that will externally download once an aircraft shuts down that will give various warning if there are any underlying mx issues but innovation and QA are still handled in a more analog method than live streaming due to cost. And same on the FDR side of things.

 

[Hang 4]

I don’t see it being an issue, as CVR recordings cannot be used to discipline pilots. They can only be used for the incident at hand.

Unless there is a tort lawyer involved.

 

[Bob Noel]

Also FDR recordings have been 25 hours for some time.

Although, with modern sat data systems why FDR data is not live streamed to land based storage, including nav data.

Cost.

The folks developing and the folks using communication systems are quite sensitive to how much is spent to send data back and forth.

 

[Kritchlow]

Unless there is a tort lawyer involved.

But wouldn’t that be due to the incident at hand?