FAA says noise-cancelling headsets may be hazardous

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Back in the olden days, when I learned to fly, there was none of this ANR nonsense. You had a mic on a chrome plated clip on the panel, and an overhead speaker as God intended. That's how it was, and that's how it should always be. You don't see the Amish using them do you? Neither should you.
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flyingcheesehead said:
You can actually hear the engine a LOT better WITH ANR. It basically just gets rid of the big rumble, allowing you to hear what's really going on. With ANR, I can hear valves clicking in time, air rushing past the plane, etc.

It is a good idea to test and see if you can hear stall/gear warnings, but I doubt any buzzers like that would be any less audible with ANR than PNR. FAA needs to get a clue, again.
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I agree. I can hear more going on with engine. You will pick up more on the subtle changes IMO. For me, carb heat on approach on a hot day throttled back. I’ll hear that little “chug” that tell me mx might be a little rich given the heat. Without ANR I think it’s harder to pick up on that. Any change is MORE perceptible IMO
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Back in the olden days, when I learned to fly, there was none of this ANR nonsense. You had a mic on a chrome plated clip on the panel, and an overhead speaker as God intended. That's how it was, and that's how it should always be. You don't see the Amish using them do you? Neither should you.

Federal Aviation Administration: Protecting pilots from technology since 1958.
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Now take your ANR headset and get off my lawn! :D
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Back in the olden days, when I learned to fly, there was none of this ANR nonsense. You had a mic on a chrome plated clip on the panel, and an overhead speaker as God intended. That's how it was, and that's how it should always be. You don't see the Amish using them do you? Neither should you.

Federal Aviation Administration: Protecting pilots from technology since 1958.
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This was true even in the '90s when I was training. Headsets were prevalent, but it wasn't a big deal to fly without them.
 
ParkerB said:
So all is well until my first lesson on stalls. You guessed it can’t hear the stall horn at all. Had to lift one ear out of the headset to hear it.
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a) Stall Warning Horn <- sometimes it's a horn, sometimes it's a light, sometimes there is neither
b) Recognizing an incipient stall, full stall, etc needs no audible alert

So protect them ears young man.
 
The thing I wont do using ANR or traditional headsets is pipe music into them... distracting and would keep me from noticing that slight change... I just won’t do it...
 
ParkerB said:
So all is well until my first lesson on stalls. You guessed it can’t hear the stall horn at all. Had to lift one ear out of the headset to hear it.
So not sure what the next move.
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Next move is try it again with the ANR turned off. If you still can't hear it, without pulling the cup off one ear, then it isn't an ANR problem. Probably isn't a headset problem either. Check the stall horn and check your hearing.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
You can actually hear the engine a LOT better WITH ANR. It basically just gets rid of the big rumble, allowing you to hear what's really going on. With ANR, I can hear valves clicking in time, air rushing past the plane, etc.
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Exactly. I recently had to do a flight without my A20 (left it in another plane) so I borrowed a club David Clark. Decently comfortable and quiet, but you could still hear a very deep rumbling of the plane.. just felt very bass-y. (frankly it was almost worse than no headset at all, part of the trip home I took it off to get a break from the rumble)

With ANR you lose that bass rumble and you get a much clearer audio of the plane itself. I would venture to guess you are more likely to hear something is amiss with the plane or engine WITH an ANR vs without, also, I've never had my A20 completely mute out an external noise

**However, I have wondered why aural alerts like stalls, "500", "minimums", etc., aren't piped into the headset via the audio panel..
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Back in the olden days, when I learned to fly, there was none of this ANR nonsense. You had a mic on a chrome plated clip on the panel, and an overhead speaker as God intended. That's how it was, and that's how it should always be. You don't see the Amish using them do you? Neither should you.

Federal Aviation Administration: Protecting pilots from technology since 1958.
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Hmm. What’s that thing on your head in your avatar? LOL
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Back in the olden days, when I learned to fly, there was none of this ANR nonsense. You had a mic on a chrome plated clip on the panel, and an overhead speaker as God intended. That's how it was, and that's how it should always be. You don't see the Amish using them do you? Neither should you.

Federal Aviation Administration: Protecting pilots from technology since 1958.
Click to expand...
God bless ya. I had to take off my zip up yesterday- was just getting hot climbing out in the 182. Handed the plane over to my CFI for a moment. Took off my headset,Zulu 3, to make it easier to get the cost off and it was deafening!!! I don’t know how the hell you did that back in the day!!! My ears were ringing for a few hours after I landed!!!
 
Huckster79 said:
The thing I wont do using ANR or traditional headsets is pipe music into them... distracting and would keep me from noticing that slight change... I just won’t do it...
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I used to think that, but that is a function of how much time you spend in the airplane and how well you pay attention to it. If you really get "tuned in" you can feel and hear things (and smell, too) that aren't normal. I'd only get weirded out if I started tasting that something was wrong with the plane. That might be taking it toooooo far.
 
RyanShort1 said:
tasting that something was wrong with the plane
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Wait, so you don't also taste test the fuel out of the GATS jar after you sump the tank? How do you know it's actually avgas, and that the lineman did not accidentally fill your tanks with Windex, Cool Blue Gatorade, Bombay Sapphire, Tide, etc...

Huckster79 said:
The thing I wont do using ANR or traditional headsets is pipe music into them... distracting and would keep me from noticing that slight change... I just won’t do it
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I recently started using the XM on longer flights after established in cruise.. it actually makes me more tuned in, believe it or not, since A.) any ATC mutes the music so you inherently notice the aural change and pay more attention to the radio, and B.) at least in my case, listening to music and the 3-5 minute cadence of songs changing keeps me more alert than an engine droning along at 2,500 RPM for 3 hrs
 
Tantalum said:
Wait, so you don't also taste test the fuel out of the GATS jar after you sump the tank? How do you know it's actually avgas, and that the lineman did not accidentally fill your tanks with Windex, Cool Blue Gatorade, Bombay Sapphire, Tide, etc...
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No, that gets tested with the digital chemtrail formula adjuster. Surprised you even had to ask that...
 
Ryan and Tantalum, Good points! I can see that on long cross countries I suppose, especially solo...
 
With a "closed cup" headset, the bacteria count in your ear canal goes way up. Otherwise, I'd pretty much discount this as being a "real" problem. Lump it in with sleep apnea. . . just enough facts to get some undeserved credibility, but not a genuine risk of any consequence. . . maybe they could take the $$$ from this office and put it to some meaningful use, like fixing the NOTAM system.
 
N50909 said:
If you need to hear a stall horn to tell you you're about to stall, let's hope you have a CFI sittin next to you.
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My thoughts too. I don't care if I can't hear the stall horn....that I don't have.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Back in the olden days, when I learned to fly, there was none of this ANR nonsense. You had a mic on a chrome plated clip on the panel, and an overhead speaker as God intended. That's how it was, and that's how it should always be. You don't see the Amish using them do you? Neither should you.

Federal Aviation Administration: Protecting pilots from technology since 1958.
Click to expand...
Protecting pilots from technology since 1958 ------ I gotta steal that one!
 
I've always thought they could be a problem when something is going wrong and making noise, so I've never owned a set.
But, I can see how they could improve the quality of life when flying GA for long distances.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Back in the olden days, when I learned to fly, there was none of this ANR nonsense. You had a mic on a chrome plated clip on the panel, and an overhead speaker as God intended. That's how it was, and that's how it should always be. You don't see the Amish using them do you? Neither should you.

Federal Aviation Administration: Protecting pilots from technology since 1958.
Click to expand...

This may be the single best description of the FAA in the history of flight.
Well done.
 
Thing is, they don't actually eliminate noise, or cut out specific sounds.. they just reduce the ambient din. Put one on and walk around your house.. you'll hear everything the same as you did before, just quieter.. and less muffled-bass like passive headsets. You can also try humming a constant tone and you will notice after a few seconds it will work to reduce that too.. but you still hear everything around you, especially the momentary odd noises since the logic specifically cancels out constant droning type sounds, less so for the momentary ones

But different strokes for folks!
 
Next they'll link ANR headsets to stall spin accidents.

ANR only works for lower frequency noise. My stall horn and Garmin alerts aren't low frequency. Maybe if Garmin used Barry White's voice I'd have a problem but so far, so good.
 
Tantalum said:
Thing is, they don't actually eliminate noise, or cut out specific sounds.. they just reduce the ambient din. Put one on and walk around your house.. you'll hear everything the same as you did before, just quieter.. and less muffled-bass like passive headsets. You can also try humming a constant tone and you will notice after a few seconds it will work to reduce that too.. but you still hear everything around you, especially the momentary odd noises since the logic specifically cancels out constant droning type sounds, less so for the momentary ones

But different strokes for folks!
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Back in the '80s pilots were having the exact same arguments over passive headsets. Nothing new under the Sun.
 
I can't wait to read the response by the engineers that spent years designing aviation headsets lol.

I used a sweep track, like the one below to test all of my headsets PNR and ANR capabilities. Turn the volume up and put the speakers close to you.

 
Am I the only one who noticed that Post #36 from yesterday resurrected a 12-year old thread?? o_O
 
I love love love all the posts from people who have never tried them saying they won't use them because they're afraid they won't be able to hear this or that. Its like they think the A in ANR stands for anechoic chamber. Push a button and poof, the plane suddenly becomes completely dead silent. You have trouble hearing the radio over the the sound of your own heart beat. :rolleyes:
 
Tantalum said:
...and that the lineman did not accidentally fill your tanks with Windex, Cool Blue Gatorade, Bombay Sapphire, Tide, etc...
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Hey T - what magic causes Sapphire to turn clear upon reaching the glass? Is it interaction with the ice? ;)

[note: it is my Gin of choice]
 
Ravioli said:
Hey T - what magic causes Sapphire to turn clear upon reaching the glass? Is it interaction with the ice?
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Incidentally all my glassware is light blue..

My go to as well... although Hendricks is good every so often
 
JohnR said:
This reminds me of the Parker Hannefin death threat letter, claiming we will die if we use one of their vacuum pumps.
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Didn't that go back to the Carnahan suit. The idiots on the jury found P-H at fault for the failure of an attitude indicator. P-H didn't make the AI and the investigation showed that the P-H vacuum pumps were working fine. The cause of the accident was loss of control in IMC. The son was PIC, but flying from the right seat. The right AI failed and he lost in trying to fly while looking at the AI on the left-panel.
 
The stall horn in my Grumman would wake the dead, ANR or not. If that didn't work, the wobbly wings and nose drop would get your attention unless you were actually...dead. I'm not going to worry about it.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
No, there was an Iron Eagle II...
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Yeah, that's why I said, "one of the crappiest..." There were so, so many from which to choose. Actually... the more I think about it, Iron Eagle may have been pretty much average to only slightly crappy, relative to the overall quality of that time period. But definitely crappy no matter how you slice it.
 
Wasn’t Crappy the name of one of the characters?
 
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