FAA PPL Valid in Europe
- Thread starter Jon
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Cajun_Flyer
Pattern Altitude
@CMongoose - we were just talking about this yesterday. Can you shed light on this for Jon?
mtuomi
En-Route
As long as you don't live in Europe, Part-FCL (with its derogations) currently allows you to use an ICAO PPL (eg. FAA PPL) to fly planes registered in Europe. Currently this is valid until April 2017. This is valid only for day-VFR operations.
CMongoose
Pre-takeoff checklist
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CMongoose
... but if you live in Europe, even if you're flying an N registered aircraft, you'll need an EASA license. You can convert the license but you need to take both a written and flight test, including any training to get you ready for the flight test.
mtuomi
En-Route
Not all of the written tests, you only need to take a few of them (I think they were Air Law, Radiotelephony, and something else), then you need to do the flight test, plus any training an ATO deems necessary. This, if you have 100+ hours total time. If you are below 100, you do them all.
For travel, there is no issue. Most ICAO countries have a process that allows you to get a temporary recognition or validation of your FAA certificate. Some of these are limited in scope, e.g. day VFR only.
Historically, many europeans just obtained the FAA certs and flew N registered aircraft based in europe. There has been a recent rule and enforcement change and this is going to go away.
In the past, there have been a couple of US flight schools that also had training approvals from the european counterpart. Everything done at those schools counted towards both the FAA and JAA certifications. If you haven't started training yet, it may be worthwhile to go that route.
mtuomi
En-Route
...not quite so. There is no JAA anymore, it is all EASA, has been for years. Unfortunately EASA is pretty strict about how to get the initial license. You cannot easily train towards EASA and FAA any more at the same time.
For the time being, you don't need a temporary validation, the recognition is done automatically by countries who choose to derogate that part of the Part-FCL. Currently this is valid until Apr 2017, and they have extended it annually since 2014, so current assumption is that 2017 will turn into 2018.
But if you live in an EASA country, all this goes down the drain, and you do need to convert your license. This requires, assuming you have 100+ hours, a few written exams, a flight test, and prior to that any training deemed necessary by an ATO.
Notice the past tense. A cursory search suggests that there are still a number of US based schools that also hold ATO approvals from EASA.
Good. Used to be an idle formality anyways.
That's what I said, right ?
mtuomi
En-Route
Yep, "not quite so" being that you can't train towards both licenses at the same time, unless your CFI is both FAA and EASA CFI/FI(A), and you are enrolling on a course provided by an ATO, which is extremely rare nowadays. Out of the ATO holders, only 2 or 3 actually provide paid flight training in the US - a few of them are simply subsidiaries of European pilot mills who do their hour building in the States and need an ATO for that. And then you have places like "National Test Pilot School", who are, I believe, quite selective in their enrollment
About the last comment, yes, that's exactly what you said, and I quoted you for truth
Xscaliber
Pre-takeoff checklist
50% taxes...Ain't that the truth !
United Kingdom citizen here but soon NOT to be part of Europe...but hey keeping the Bidet, it's great for bathing the dog ...
As for flying on the FAA cert, I'm a FAA cert holder and do most of my flying in Florida my second home, a couple of years back I wandered in a local Flight School here in the UK and asked about doing a check ride and renting from them, and possibly getting my EASA cert. with them, they said I would have to do a minimum 40 hours flight training and take the madatory exams, Air Law, Radio etc.
When I said what's different about flying a N reg.172 to a G reg 172 that would require me to do 40 hours flight training ? The answer was.... thats what is required to convert to EASA ..... I don't think they were correct in that assumption but I didn't pursue it. and even if it is correct I'm not in the UK long enough each year to warrant converting to a EASA cert. I can do a whole bunch of flying in Florida for a good couple of years for what it would cost to get the EASA here in the UK....
United Kingdom citizen here but soon NOT to be part of Europe...but hey keeping the Bidet, it's great for bathing the dog ...
As for flying on the FAA cert, I'm a FAA cert holder and do most of my flying in Florida my second home, a couple of years back I wandered in a local Flight School here in the UK and asked about doing a check ride and renting from them, and possibly getting my EASA cert. with them, they said I would have to do a minimum 40 hours flight training and take the madatory exams, Air Law, Radio etc.
When I said what's different about flying a N reg.172 to a G reg 172 that would require me to do 40 hours flight training ? The answer was.... thats what is required to convert to EASA ..... I don't think they were correct in that assumption but I didn't pursue it. and even if it is correct I'm not in the UK long enough each year to warrant converting to a EASA cert. I can do a whole bunch of flying in Florida for a good couple of years for what it would cost to get the EASA here in the UK....
rhvpilot
Pre-takeoff checklist
I had the same experience!
while visiting London, I went to a nearby school and got the same answer basically saying the FAA license is not valid and I cannot use it even temporarily.
while visiting London, I went to a nearby school and got the same answer basically saying the FAA license is not valid and I cannot use it even temporarily.
mtuomi
En-Route
The answer you got was 100% rubbish. I legally rent and fly G, OH etc registered planes with my FAA license all the time. Tell them they should read and understand Part-FCL and the derogations. Ignorance on their part.
rhvpilot
Pre-takeoff checklist
That is interesting.
You mind telling which part of Europe do you use it in?
Tx
You mind telling which part of Europe do you use it in?
Tx
mtuomi
En-Route
UK, Sweden, Finland, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Croatia, Slovenia, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Belgium and Holland, so far.
mtuomi
En-Route
For example, this is what UK CAA currently says;
5) Deferring the Application of the requirements of Annex III of EU Reg 1178/2011 either to hold a Part-FCL licence or to obtain Validation of Third Country Licences for Flights in Aircraft Registered in a Third Country or in a Member State
a) Pursuant to Article 12(4), the provisions of this regulation will not apply to any holder of a licence and any associated medical certificate issued by or on behalf of any third country where: i) there is no agreement concluded between the European Union and the third country covering pilot licences; ii) the holder does not comply with the conversion requirements of Annex III; iii) the holder wishes to exercise the privileges of the licence on a flight which is in an aircraft specified in article 4(1)(b) or 4(1)(c) of Regulation (EC) No. 216/2008. UK Civil Aviation Authority Official Record Series 4, No. 1171 3 May 2016 Page 3 of 3
b) The dates during which the above derogation shall be effective are as stated below. Beyond the dates stated, licence holders will be required to have taken the steps necessary to have their licences validated in accordance with the requirements of Annex III to EU Regulation 1178/2011: i) where flights are non-commercial and the pilot does not receive any remuneration or other valuable consideration for their services as such: from 8 April 2016 until 8 April 2017.
So, in the UK you are good to go until 8 April 2017. And in Apr2017, it will very likely be pushed forwards by another year.
5) Deferring the Application of the requirements of Annex III of EU Reg 1178/2011 either to hold a Part-FCL licence or to obtain Validation of Third Country Licences for Flights in Aircraft Registered in a Third Country or in a Member State
a) Pursuant to Article 12(4), the provisions of this regulation will not apply to any holder of a licence and any associated medical certificate issued by or on behalf of any third country where: i) there is no agreement concluded between the European Union and the third country covering pilot licences; ii) the holder does not comply with the conversion requirements of Annex III; iii) the holder wishes to exercise the privileges of the licence on a flight which is in an aircraft specified in article 4(1)(b) or 4(1)(c) of Regulation (EC) No. 216/2008. UK Civil Aviation Authority Official Record Series 4, No. 1171 3 May 2016 Page 3 of 3
b) The dates during which the above derogation shall be effective are as stated below. Beyond the dates stated, licence holders will be required to have taken the steps necessary to have their licences validated in accordance with the requirements of Annex III to EU Regulation 1178/2011: i) where flights are non-commercial and the pilot does not receive any remuneration or other valuable consideration for their services as such: from 8 April 2016 until 8 April 2017.
So, in the UK you are good to go until 8 April 2017. And in Apr2017, it will very likely be pushed forwards by another year.
peter-h
Line Up and Wait
There is some incorrect information in this thread. I would suggest asking on euroga.org for the latest.
The UK has been AFAIK the only country in Europe which automatically validates any ICAO PPL (what the US calls Private Certificate) for use on a G-reg plane. They similarly validate the FAA IR but only outside controlled airspace (which renders it of little value because it means Class G). Most other countries offer a temporary validation but you have to apply for it.
The UK has been AFAIK the only country in Europe which automatically validates any ICAO PPL (what the US calls Private Certificate) for use on a G-reg plane. They similarly validate the FAA IR but only outside controlled airspace (which renders it of little value because it means Class G). Most other countries offer a temporary validation but you have to apply for it.
mtuomi
En-Route
Far from the only country. Most countries allow visitors to use ICAO PPLs to fly their planes. The part of the Part-FCL which requires that validation process has been derogated by many countries (list of those countries is available online). In those countries, old pre-EASA national rules are still in force - most of which say that you are OK to use non-validated ICAO PPL to fly planes registered in those countries, assuming you do not live in that country. Rules are different if you live there.