FAA Medical - Prior Personality Disorder Misdiagnosis

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Bumpy Road

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HOAX32
Hello folks!

I am currently going through the process of getting my hands on my medical certificate.
There is one single section/question that has me concerned:
"Medical rejection by military service"

About a year ago I was (and still am) going through the process of reenlistment into the national guard (I am an air force vet).
The military had me take a psych eval before clearing me medically.
It consisted of 2 computerized self-reporting tests.
Flying through the questions and not giving them much tought I finished the whole thing in just over 2 hours since I was trying to get back to work. (I was told most folks take 5 hours - I could not stay there that long because of work)
I didn't think it would end up being a deal braker but turned out that I probably should have paid more attention reading those bloody questions....
My recruiter calls me an tells me that MEPS claims that the results "indicate signs of possible personality disorder".
I was now DQ'd from continuing my enlistment.
Very mad at myself for not giving the exam the attention that it deserved I schedule 2 civilian private mental health evaluations for which I paid over $2000 out of pocket.
It consisted of interviews, the Doctor/Psychologist asking me about my past, and having me take tests called the MMPI-2 and the MCMI-IV.
Also roughly 700 questions long (maybe exact same tests as before? Questions seemed similar).
This time I took my sweet baby Jesus time reading everything carefuly and asking the assistant for help in interpreting questions that gave me trouble. I didn't even know what "gossip" means (I'm foreign).

I got a call 1 week later informing me that my results came in.
I received a sealed medical report of my evaluation with the tollowing results:
"There are no elevations on the clinical syndrome scales therefore no distinctive clinical syndromes appear in this profile. Test results indicate that *NAME* is dealing effectively with situational demand with a positive attitude. The profile is within normal limits and no diagnostic considerations are warranted at this time."

-Signed Dr. ******** Licensed Psychologist #36138


I have submitted this along with a recommendation from a Major and Texas Congressman Dr. Burgess to the National Guard for a waiver (my re-evaluation makes my case waiverable).
I also included detailed workplace reviews by the CEO. (I am a chief web developer for a reputalbe company.)
This was a few weeks ago and I am still waiting on a response.
So tenchnically I am still in the enlistment process.


What are my odds of getting my medical clearance from the FAA?
If I get it, will there be any remarks on my license limiting my aviation potential?
Should I even bother disclosing since I am technically still in the enlistment process and it was a misdiagnosis and I never had any school/social/work trouble or any other signs of mental illness? I don't even drink alcohol hahaha.

Ohhh I am also a sky diver not sure if that helps my case.
This worries me to death since I am putting down plans on making this a career!
Thank you for any help!
 
You need professional help to get your ducks in order BEFORE you apply for a medical.
No doubt the FAA will be real picky about exactly what documentation they want - make sure you have it in hand BEFORE you apply for a medical.
I would consult one of the exceptionally qualified AMEs that deals with difficult cases on a regular basis and gets referenced on a daily basis here - not some random AME who happens to have an office nearby.
 
Well, almost the right place, probably should be moved to the medical forum.

Do not apply for an FAA medical. The general rule in the aviation world is to never apply for a FAA medical unless you already know you will pass.

Depending on where you are, contact Dr Lou @lbfjrmd (Pensacola, FL) or Dr Chien @bbchien (Chicago, IL) and ask for a consult. You have a complicated case which requires extra attention. These gentlemen are in the business of helping people like you get into the pilot's seat.

Here's the thing - the NG test was meaningless. It wasn't an exam and "failure" wasn't reportable to the FAA. But now you've mucked it up with having actual doctors visits to refute the exam and those visits are very reportable. The FAA will be very interested in the detailed findings of the two doctors and the conclusion statement won't solve it. You might even have to go back to a third, FAA approved doctor for yet another exam. The good doctors can tell you.

Oh wait, I didn't catch that you were a skydiver. Yes, personality disorder confirmed. ;)
 
Rafayel Khosrovyan said:
Texas Congressman Dr. Burgess
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This tells me you're not far from my location, as Dr. Burgess is the Congress Critter for my district. If you are free tomorrow morning, there is a pilot's breakfast happening at Denton Enterprise Airport at 8:00am at the US Jet Center hangar. You are invited.


As Geoffrey and Brian said... Do not go to some average run of mill Aviation Medical Examiner. You need to seek out the services of the right AME who not only knows details of what needs to be in the FAA submission, but also has the experience and pull with some key insiders of FAA medical to consult with to make sure this is done right in first throw.

Two of these are Dr. Lou Fowler (Pensacola, FL) and Dr. Bruce Chien (Bolingbrook, IL)

That you started with your own mental health evaluations may be useful. However, for the FAA's needs, an additional visit to a HIMS (Human Intervention Motivation Study) Psychiatrist might be needed. Since the FAA holds the keys to the kingdom of the sky, they like to use their own gatekeepers.

Doctors Lou and Bruce can provide more detail about that. Once again, you are highly encouraged to start with them.
 
First of all thank you for all the replies.

Wow I did not think this would be such a serious deal hahahaha. Would I have to go through this mess each time I renew?

Also I was able to confirm that the records from my re-evaluation are not publicly accesible, not linked to my insurance and the only way to discover them by the government would be to know where I got evaluated and reach out to the with a subpoena. I was ensured that my one time visit for my screening with 100% confidential and could not be backtracked as I went to a private praxis.

Amazing how this "soft science" can screw up so much.
 
Rafayel Khosrovyan said:
First of all thank you for all the replies.

Wow I did not think this would be such a serious deal hahahaha. Would I have to go through this mess each time I renew?
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Not an AME, so this is a complete guess: I don't think you will have to repeat any testing at renewal. Unless something has changed drastically.

However, if medication is currently or becomes involved, then the situation and the steps required becomes completely different.

Also I was able to confirm that the records from my re-evaluation are not publicly accesible, not linked to my insurance and the only way to discover them by the government would be to know where I got evaluated and reach out to the with a subpoena. I was ensured that my one time visit for my screening with 100% confidential and could not be backtracked as I went to a private praxis.
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I am not sure what you're trying to get at by declaring to us this last bit.

But, for obtaining a medical certificate with the FAA, the key question on the application is "HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH, HAD, OR DO YOU PRESENTLY HAVE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING?". And the key phrase is, "ever in your life"

And because of what the military doctors tagged you with, you'll be forever answering "YES" to Question 18m, Mental disorders of any sort; depression, anxiety, etc

To answer no, you will be lying on a federal form and that is a major offense with significant penalties if caught. So don't lie.

And because you answer YES to this, the FAA is then going to want to know all there is to know about your case, including the psychiatric testing, past and present. So even with "not publicly accessible", it is likely you will need to turn over everything to the FAA medical system.
_______________________________________

Summary.... best to cease posting here about your medical situation and seek out the correct and proper advice of the AME's we have already suggested.

Once you are successful, then tell us how it went.


But if you want to participate in other topics, please do so.... we're here to both help and confuse. (hopefully more of the former)
 
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Rafayel Khosrovyan said:
Would I have to go through this mess each time I renew?
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Once you prove to the FAA's satisfaction that it was all a big mistake, that should be the end of it other than noting that it was previously reported.

As far as lying on the application - given that you note above that you submitted the results of your evaluation to the National Guard...

As far as being a big deal, the FAA is literally paranoid when it comes to anything "mental".
 
Rafayel Khosrovyan said:
Also I was able to confirm that the records from my re-evaluation are not publicly accesible, not linked to my insurance and the only way to discover them by the government would be to know where I got evaluated and reach out to the with a subpoena. I was ensured that my one time visit for my screening with 100% confidential and could not be backtracked as I went to a private praxis.
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You gave the information to a branch of the military that reports to “the government”, and presumably at least informed a congressman of the evaluations. This is now virtually public information.
 
MauleSkinner said:
You gave the information to a branch of the military that reports to “the government”, and presumably at least informed a congressman of the evaluations. This is now virtually public information.
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Gotcha.
I was going by @bflynn mentioning that the test itself was meaningless.
 
A few points to consider:

1. This should have been posted in the Medical Section, and probably anonymously.
2. Be wary of advice from the internet.
3. Dr. Chien's advice is great!!!
4. Don't lie - EVER

Rafayel Khosrovyan said:
...the results "indicate signs of possible personality disorder".
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I'm not a doctor, nor have I ever played one on TV. But that doesn't sound like a diagnosis to me. Therefore, I call BS on the following:
AggieMike88 said:
And because of what the military doctors tagged you with, you'll be forever answering "YES" to Question 18m, Mental disorders of any sort; depression, anxiety, etc

To answer no, you will be lying on a federal form and that is a major offense with significant penalties if caught. So don't lie.
Click to expand...

You may indeed need to check Yes on 18s "Medical rejection by military service", but I would still consult an AME such as Dr. Chien to get his take on that, and maybe even a lawyer to find out what actually constitutes a "Medical rejection by military service". Take your time and get some help beyond what you'll find on the internet.

I wish you good luck!!
 
Rafayel Khosrovyan said:
Gotcha.
I was going by @bflynn mentioning that the test itself was meaningless.
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I could take an internet quiz which tells me "you're crazy" and it would have as much medical validity as the NG test. And there's lot of opinions here, including mine. None of them matter except Dr Lou or Dr Chien and later the FAA doctors.

It is government information. But it's not medical information and isn't a medical diagnosis, it cannot be. A doctor cannot diagnosis you without an exam, it is unethical for exactly this reason. In fact, the NG's wording says "may indicate..." explicitly to avoid a diagnosis. Not that it matters at all because there are two official doctor visits for the purpose of refuting the psycho-babble test. Those alone are going to raise eyes and I suspect they will almost certainly want "their" doctor to talk with you again. At your cost of course.

You should count on there being no "private" information. If you've been to the doctor, report it. The penalties for failing to are severe. We don't try to hide things, then it becomes a an integrity issue. Besides, you have a distinctive name and you've already posted it in a public internet forum. It is certainly "findable" now. :)

Good news, no, you probably won't have to do this every time you reup your medical. There is a path called "special issuance" or SI where they say "well, ok, but we still don't believe you, so we want to check again when you renew." Short of that, you just report that there's been no change in your condition. If they do require you to renew the SI when you do your next medical, there is a way to avoid it. You can use an option called BasicMed where you get a medical exam from your doctor, take a medical safety test online and you self-certify. It's very popular with people who no longer want to fight with the FAA medical system over stupid things. Unfortunately it is only available after you've had a regular medical.

Based on the story you've told, I expect the following:

1) A consult with one of the senior AMEs who are very experienced with working this kind of problem. Whatever they ask for in money, it's more than worth it.
2) This may result in an examination with an FAA psychiatric doctor for the purpose of confirming what the other two doctors have told you. He will also provide information in the format the FAA wants. Save that information, you'll need it at your exam. In fact, save it, scan it and upload it to your Google Drive forever. You can never be too safe.
3) you'll eventually fill out your medical exam questions online. Answer them on the side of caution and use the space to tell your story. You should probably go ahead and answer yes to "have you ever been denied enlistment" even if you are still trying to get in because it's part of the public story. It doesn't hurt you because it's the beginning of the story you want to tell. You'll also report all your doctor visits. Yes, they are asking specifically because they want to know what you are up to medically. Yes, they can check various medical databases if you don't tell them the truth. No, HIPPA won't keep them out.
4) You have your exam. If the AME is able to pre-wire the situation with the FAA, he may be able to issue your medical certificate right away. Congrats, you are done.
5) If you get deferred, then you will get a letter in the mail some time (a month?) later telling you what further have to do. The purpose of steps 1 and 2 are to avoid this.

There is no step "if you get denied". If you're going to get denied, steps 1 and 2 will tell you that and you'll never take the exam. Sport Pilot will still be open to you. If you take the exam and get denied, nothing is open to you.
 
Rafayel Khosrovyan said:
About a year ago I was (and still am) going through the process of reenlistment into the national guard (I am an air force vet).
/QUOTE]
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Whats your DD-214 re-enlistment eligibility code say?

Did you receive a VA disability rating?
 
TCABM said:
Whats your DD-214 re-enlistment eligibility code say?

Did you receive a VA disability rating?
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I was fully qualified for reenlistment.
No medical discharge.
No VA comp.
 
Excited to announce that I let Dr Lou himself handle my case. Gathered up all medical documentation from psychologists showing no traces of psychopathology as well as a letter head from the Army recruiting and retention command outlining that I was reevaluated and found to be mentally fit and that my initial results are recommended to be waived.

Made the 12 hour car drive to Florida and had Dr Lou Fowler take care of me.
I left last night at 9PM from Texas and headed back right now.

Coming prepared with detailed medical documentation paid off and Dr Lou was able to issue my medical cert right then and there.

Amazing streamline process. Friendly staff as well!
 
Rafayel Khosrovyan said:
Excited to announce that I let Dr Lou himself handle my case. Gathered up all medical documentation from psychologists showing no traces of psychopathology as well as a letter head from the Army recruiting and retention command outlining that I was reevaluated and found to be mentally fit and that my initial results are recommended to be waived.

Made the 12 hour car drive to Florida and had Dr Lou Fowler take care of me.
I left last night at 9PM from Texas and headed back right now.

Coming prepared with detailed medical documentation paid off and Dr Lou was able to issue my medical cert right then and there.

Amazing streamline process. Friendly staff as well!
Click to expand...
A W E S O M E ! ! ! ! !

This is what "owning your medical" is all about. Plus working with a really good AME such as Dr. Lou!
 
Congratulations. Glad you got the ok to fly.


It’s the way it should be. Who cares if you are crazy anyway. I’ve never met a pilot that wasn’t nuts. I’m nuttier than a squirrel turd.



D299B9E9-49C1-48DD-B183-3B54B5CC123A.jpeg
 
Is it standard practice for the military to have an enlistee sit for a 5 hour computerized psych exam?
 
paflyer said:
Is it standard practice for the military to have an enlistee sit for a 5 hour computerized psych exam?
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It is not.

I am going to be completely transparent:
I had a few minor mishaps in my prior enlistment when I was still in my late teens.
Mainly due to immaturity and if I could, I would go back in time and kick my own idiot ass.
None the less I was qualified to re-enlist.

I matured, learned everything about respect and the importance of why rules exist.
I acquired a senior technology position with a reputable company, maintained a clean criminal and driving record and
did my best to prepare myself for the future and to become a role model citizen.

The guard reviewed my past service and background and cleared me for re-enlistment and my MEPS medical eval.
I was ready to rock and roll but the MEPS doctors wanted me to do a psychological evaluation because I fell asleep in class, forgot some "homework" and was
late for formation a hand full of times in my past service.
Keep in mind those events were almost 4 years ago, so yes - my whole enlistment and aviation career got jeopardized because of some immature minor infractions
caused by a common disease called "young and stupid".
And by me not taking a bloody computer test serious.

Thankfully everything is currently getting reviewed and hopefully overturned.
I have multiple psychologists, senior officers from the Military and even a Congressman supporting me.
I am glad my medical cert got taken care of but Dr Lou did mention that I may get a letter from the FAA asking for some more information.
 
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