FAA Gets Hands Slapped

Goofy

Goofy

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Goofy
Nice to see a little common sense come through the courts for a change. Now maybe they'll pay more attention to real issues....maybe.

Federal Aviation Administration Rules on Recreational Drone Registry Struck Down: Appeals court finds agency lacked authority to require registration
The Wall Street Journal
By Jacob Gershman
May 19, 2017 3:47 p.m. ET


A federal appeals court in Washington on Friday struck down a Federal Aviation Administration rule requiring recreational drone owners to register their devices with the government.

The rule, rolled out in late 2015, instructed owners of virtually all consumer drones—other than those weighing about half a pound or less—to register for a unique identification number to affix to their aircraft before flying them.

Federal officials at the time said the registry was a safety measure to help protect the national airspace amid a proliferation of smaller and cheaper consumer drones. Some drone owners objected to the new rules, seeing it as a needless intrusion into a harmless hobby.

On Friday, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit ruled that the FAA lacked the authority to require the registration, saying that the rule ran afoul of a 2012 law passed by Congress forbidding the FAA from promulgating rules over model aircraft.
 
AOPA headline: AOPA DRONE PROGRAM HAS BIG WIN IN COURT. DONATE TO THE PAC NOW!
 
Probably not a popular opinion here, but personally I think drones need to be regulated. Any A-Hole can buy one and cause some major problems if not careful/knowledgeable of what they are doing. Anyone ever encounter one in an airport traffic pattern?
 
TRocket said:
Any A-Hole can buy one and cause some major problems .....
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Granted.

Now can you explain how sending $5 to the USG and using a Sharpie to write small numbers on the bottom of the drone prevents this?

This is like trying to prevent bird strikes by putting numbered bands on the legs of geese.
 
TRocket said:
Probably not a popular opinion here, but personally I think drones need to be regulated. Any A-Hole can buy one and cause some major problems if not careful/knowledgeable of what they are doing. Anyone ever encounter one in an airport traffic pattern?
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Drones are regulated. And even before Part 107, drones were aircraft, thus regulated by the other parts that applied. Regulations don't prevent *******s from being *******s. Any ******* can buy an airplane.
 
It can help hold them responsible if they fly it into airport landing traffic ...cuz thats a cool photo dude!
Or if it lands on someones car. Or head.
Personally I think they should be regulated more. I don't want them anywhere near me or my property or my airplane if I'm flying.
 
Half Fast said:
This is like trying to prevent bird strikes by putting numbered bands on the legs of geese.
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Those are like trophies, so I guess that means catching numbered drones is like banded geese?
 
Well drones are an attriactive nuisance in respect to facilitating otherwise law-abiding people to do stupid/illegal stuff because it's cool/the didn't know any better. I suppose one could make the argument that the registration process forced people to be aware that they were being regulated and get some basic familiarity with part 101. I suspect even without the registration rule the industry will voluntarily pick up that slack to reduce the likelihood their drones end up in the news as inadvertent nose art on an airliner.
 
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Skyrys62 said:
It can help hold them responsible if they fly it into airport landing traffic ....
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Really?

Explain to me how that works. How do you obtain the registration number of the problem drone? Assuming, that is, that it even has one. Most people who would fly it into a traffic pattern won't have registered anyway.
 
I'm saying if it hits a plane, or car, or anything else and causes damage, it can help identify the drone. Of course if the drone is recovered/obtained. That's common sense...and I said it can help... not that it's 100% foolproof in any fashion ever.
No different than a car, or gun, or anything else that is registered. It will have a registration number and owner.
 
Skyrys62 said:
I'm saying if it hits a plane, or car, or anything else and causes damage, it can help identify the drone. Of course if the drone is recovered/obtained. That's common sense...and I said it can help... not that it's 100% foolproof in any fashion ever.
No different than a car, or gun, or anything else that is registered. It will have a registration number and owner.
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What do you think the chances are of recovering a drone, or the shattered pieces of it, after it hits a plane?

This rule has been in place for about a year and a half now. How many people have been busted from a recovered registered drone?
 
Will they refund the registration costs?
 
I thought the requirement was to register the operator not the drone.

Seems silly from a practical point of view. They can't even decently enforce the full sized manned aircraft that are almost entirely located on gov subsidized airports, how the heck are they going to enforce something that anyone with a couple hundred bucks can own and fits in a shoebox.... and (I assume) has no radar footprint?

The only possible purpose of this is as a tack-on charge for some day when they want to go after someone after the hypothetical tragedy. Just government agencies trying to assert some kind of control on paper for something they aren't realistically able to regulate IMO.
 
Half Fast said:
What do you think the chances are of recovering a drone, or the shattered pieces of it, after it hits a plane?
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I'm not sure. It would depend on the location. If it's around an airstrip I'd say somewhat reasonable.

You don't have to agree with me, it's not a mandatory requirement either according to the FAA.
 
Half Fast said:
What do you think the chances are of recovering a drone, or the shattered pieces of it, after it hits a plane?
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A small chunk of circuit board of a transistor radio was proven to be the bomb in the Lockerbie crash.

And the computer data tapes from Columbia were found sitting next to a road intersection in Texas.

It's amazing what is found when lots of eyeballs are used.
 
TRocket said:
Probably not a popular opinion here, but personally I think drones need to be regulated. Any A-Hole can buy one and cause some major problems if not careful/knowledgeable of what they are doing. Anyone ever encounter one in an airport traffic pattern?
Click to expand...

And having a database stops that??
 
Half Fast said:
What do you think the chances are of recovering a drone, or the shattered pieces of it, after it hits a plane?

This rule has been in place for about a year and a half now. How many people have been busted from a recovered registered drone?
Click to expand...

The chances are slim to none, I can tell you this from personal experience. This particular incident was a couple of months before you had to start registering them, no parts of it were ever found, so no registration would not have helped. However, there needs to be some accountability.
 
I'm all for government not over-regulating... However, can someone explain what they think should be done with drones? They are continuing to get bigger, faster, fly higher, fly farther, etc. They are being flown by all different types of people (kids, aviation ignorant, general morons and respectful knowledgeable people). A guy just spotted a couple in a twin cessna at 4500 near an airport, we get reports semi-regularly of drones over Chicago on the finals at glide slope altitudes. Wait for a couple to shred airline engines? Wait for a GA pilot or two to be decapitated in the cockpit as one comes through the window?
 
Even though I have one, if I saw one filming a woman at my pool the shotgun WOULD come out...!
Any damn fool that flies near an aircraft needs a minimum fine and some jail time. And the notoriety in the press to make it a lesson for others. Unfortunately, these days, papers are useless with this stuff...
 
Seatbelts won't always save you.
Flight following won't keep you from crashing.
Registration won't stop 100% of the idiots from flying drones improperly into public space.

but all of those can help, even if only a little.

I'd prefer they charge for regulating drones rather than tax me for owing an acre of land with trees that does nothing but sit there and contribute oxygen to the atmosphere.
But I guess that's way too damn much to ask for.
 
ktup-flyer said:
Serial number of the UAS... Both my Phantom 3 and Phantom 4 Pro and every other drone have serial numbers.
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Nope. My kid has about 10 racers and none have serial numbers. But he did write moms operator number on them.

Drones under 55 lbs are not registered. Operators are registered. Or were.....
 
jbarrass said:
Nope. My kid has about 10 racers and none have serial numbers. But he did write moms operator number on them.

Drones under 55 lbs are not registered. Operators are registered. Or were.....
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If it weighs more than 0.55 pounds you have to. Over 55 pounds and you have to register through their paper process
 
ktup-flyer said:
If it weighs more than 0.55 pounds you have to. Over 55 pounds and you have to register through their paper process
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Still nope. The operators are registered, not the drones. All their drones have the same number. The operator number. They don't even ask for any info on the drone.
 
Radar Contact said:
However, can someone explain what they think should be done with drones?
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Okay, I'll play. Here's an idea that has had no more than two minutes of thought, so I'm sure many holes can be shot into it, but maybe it'll get the juices flowing.

All RC aircraft are using transmitters and receivers that are regulated by the FCC. The FCC isn't prohibited from regulating drone comms; they don't face the same legislative wall that the FAA does.

So let's try skinning that cat using a radio.

The FCC could require all new drone receivers to incorporate a feature whereby it listens on a dedicated frequency and upon receiving a "stop" code on that frequency it disables power to the motors. The drone can only be reset manually.

Then install simple, low power transmitters at airports transmitting the "stop" code. If a drone comes within, say, 2 miles of the airport, it's motors will be disabled and it will fall to the earth. As a bonus, pilots could equip their aircraft with similar transmitters, thereby crashing any drone that gets within a couple of miles of them.

Granted this will do nothing for existing drones, but I wasn't asked for suggestions soon enough. Sorry.

Okay, now start throwing spears into this idea and come up with something better.
 
Half Fast said:
Okay, I'll play. Here's an idea that has had no more than two minutes of thought, so I'm sure many holes can be shot into it, but maybe it'll get the juices flowing.

All RC aircraft are using transmitters and receivers that are regulated by the FCC. The FCC isn't prohibited from regulating drone comms; they don't face the same legislative wall that the FAA does.

So let's try skinning that cat using a radio.

The FCC could require all new drone receivers to incorporate a feature whereby it listens on a dedicated frequency and upon receiving a "stop" code on that frequency it disables power to the motors. The drone can only be reset manually.

Then install simple, low power transmitters at airports transmitting the "stop" code. If a drone comes within, say, 2 miles of the airport, it's motors will be disabled and it will fall to the earth. As a bonus, pilots could equip their aircraft with similar transmitters, thereby crashing any drone that gets within a couple of miles of them.

Granted this will do nothing for existing drones, but I wasn't asked for suggestions soon enough. Sorry.

Okay, now start throwing spears into this idea and come up with something better.
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God I hope the stop signal is on a different frequency than my pace maker.
 
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