FAA doing ramp checks at SnF

DavidWhite

DavidWhite

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I just read that the FAA is doing ramp checks on display planes at Sun N Fun. A guy on Van's Air Force posted that there are three Harmon Rockets with FAA stickers on them, telling them to contact the FSDO.
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Can't these people find something productive to do with their time?
 
In their minds, they just did. Did you mean to use a different word other than "productive"? ;)
 
Just a thought, but I'd wait and see if the problem is still going on after the 1st before getting too worked up about it.
 
Hmm...there has to be more to this. I seriously doubt they're just walking around there inspecting and grounding airplanes. If so, that's rather disturbing.....Possible this is just one rogue inspector the FAA will handle.
 
I have come to understand that it is routine for the FAA to perform field checks at air shows, and that they are pretty much expected. Low hanging fruit, and all that.

Am I wrong?
 
SCCutler said:
I have come to understand that it is routine for the FAA to perform field checks at air shows, and that they are pretty much expected. Low hanging fruit, and all that.

Am I wrong?
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FAA Order 8900.1 Volume 6 Chapter 11 Section 10
A. Surveillance Policy. Air shows, fly‑ins, and other gatherings of general aviation aircraft and airmen are opportunities for the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to present a positive image to the aviation community with whom we work and the general public. Many of the aircraft operators attending these aviation events are regular users of our air traffic and flight service facilities, but their contact with Flight Standards personnel may have been rare. Most of the people who fly their airplanes to fly‑in events and air shows are aviation enthusiasts and hobbyists and are not employed in the aviation industry as pilots.

1) The FAA would like this important segment of airspace users to have a very positive image of inspectors and the safety activities inspectors perform. Therefore, the FAA encourages inspectors to establish early contact with sponsors and organizers of aviation events so that informational and FAA Safety Team activities can be planned to serve attendees.

2) Under no circumstances should these gatherings be targeted for a blanket sweep inspection of spectator airmen and aircraft.

3) The scope of surveillance conducted on aviation event performers and their aircraft will be determined by the Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) manager.

4) Inspectors assigned work functions at aviation events should strive to earn the confidence of the attending and participating airmen. This can be accomplished by displaying expert technical knowledge as an aviation safety professional.

5) The guidance in this section does not preclude inspectors from taking appropriate action to resolve situations they observe that require immediate corrective action.
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Good chance this is just an April 1 joke where someone put fake tags on a bunch of planes, or at least I hope so...
 
Man, did I blow THAT one!
 
N-number size

The inspection tags say it's about the N-numbers. They are probably displaying 3" numbers and since their cruise speed is above 180k. they should be 12" high. Not so pretty on a small airplane.
 
Re: N-number size

Dihedral said:
The inspection tags say it's about the N-numbers. They are probably displaying 3" numbers and since their cruise speed is above 180k. they should be 12" high. Not so pretty on a small airplane.
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Yep, although it is not as if the requirement for N-number size has been kept secret...
 
They were ramp checking at the Sebring Expo for the first time this year.
 
Say it ain't so,entrapment .
 
frfly172 said:
Say it ain't so,entrapment .
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What about this is entrapment? Is it entrapment if you get a ticket for driving with an obscured license plate?

Not that I endorse targeting an air show, if that's even what happened here... more information will come out eventually. No need to be reactionary.
 
Re: N-number size

Dihedral said:
The inspection tags say it's about the N-numbers. They are probably displaying 3" numbers and since their cruise speed is above 180k. they should be 12" high. Not so pretty on a small airplane.
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"Cruise" is at what % power, what type of airspeed, what altitude.....?? :dunno:
 
Be sure your weight and balance is current if you take any seats out, just have your W/B sheet figured out for each seat you take out, they have been checking for that, and writing tickets at some airports.
 
I just read that the FAA is doing ramp checks on display planes at Sun N Fun. A guy on Van's Air Force posted that there are three Harmon Rockets with FAA stickers on them, telling them to contact the FSDO.
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That's not the result of a "ramp check" (technically, a "Part 91 Ramp Inspection", discussed above). Those are Aircraft Condition Notices that result from an FAA Inspector seeing something about the airplane which appears to be unairworthy/compromise safety. And since "safety" is the middle name of the people doing that, no, they don't have anything better to do with their time than try to keep things safe. The notice merely says they saw something that looked unsafe or illegal, that the issue should be checked and (if necessary) corrected before further flight, and to close the loop, that the FSDO be notified of the resolution.

Finally, this action is not covered by the general rule discussed above not to conduct general sweeps of airmen and aircraft. If they see something that isn't right, they are obligated to do something about it, and that's usually nothing more than (as in this case) to leave the owner a note advising the owner of what the Inspector saw about the aircraft that didn't look right.
 
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Entrapment is when the government coerces someone into committing a crime that they were otherwise not predisposed to commit.
 
"The inspection tags say it's about the N-numbers.".......:nono:
 
ateamer said:
Entrapment is when the government coerces someone into committing a crime that they were otherwise not predisposed to commit.
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...not pointing out a violation they've already committed, especially when there's no penalty imposed as long as the situation is corrected or satisfactorily explained in a timely manner.
 
Isn't this what the FAA is suppose to do, random spot checks? What better place to do a mass inspection?

We b*tch if they don't do their jobs, we b*tch if they do their jobs....
 
jmp470 said:
Isn't this what the FAA is suppose to do, random spot checks? What better place to do a mass inspection?

We b*tch if they don't do their jobs, we b*tch if they do their jobs....
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There are a ton of reasons not to do ramp checks of spectator aircraft at fly-ins, and as the quoted portion of FAA Order 8900.1 shows, the FAA recognizes that. However, there is never any reason for the FAA to overlook visible violations of the regulations no matter where they see them.
 
How does the inspector *know* that those particular individual aircraft have max cruise CAS of greater than 180 kts? All E-AB aircraft are individual and may or may not perform exactly like the kit company's published specs... many of which may be overstated for advertisement purposes.
(Yeah, I know y'all are going to say "But it's a Rocket, everybody already knows those are all fast as %$#&" but are they all? There's gotta be at least one or more Rocket out there that's a dog... all show and no go.)

When the DAR or FAA inspector first inspected and issued the airworthiness cert on an E-AB, the size of the N-numbers on the plane at that time had to be appropriate to the airplane. Why was the AW cert granted if the plane's N-numbers were too small?
 
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Neal Howard said:
How does the inspector *know* that those particular individual aircraft have max cruise CAS of greater than 180 kts?
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S/he doesn't, and s/he doesn't have to. All the Inspector need do before hanging an ACN is suspect that the aircraft is either unsafe or illegal as is, and if an Ops Inspector, consult with an Airworthiness Inspector for advice on those points. Then it's on the pilot to either determine that the aircraft is in fact not deficient, or if it is, correct the deficiency before further flight (with the assistance of a licensed mechanic, if appropriate). Either way, upon doing so, the pilot so advises the FSDO of the resolution by filling out appropriately and returning the detachable copy of the ACN to the FSDO. Only if the pilot fails to do that will the Inspector proceed with further action starting with an investigation to determine that there is in fact a violation before doing anything else. See the form below for details.
image042.jpg
 
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jmp470 said:
Isn't this what the FAA is suppose to do, random spot checks? What better place to do a mass inspection?

We b*tch if they don't do their jobs, we b*tch if they do their jobs....
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I never ***** when they don't do their job. Carnage is OK by me, even the tiny percentage that could be thwarted by the FAA doing their job.
 
Check out the latest issue of AOPA Pilot regarding how much the FAA is spending per pilot in 2014 compared to 1980. It is astounding. Maybe they do need to find something more productive to do :).
 
flyingriki said:
"The inspection tags say it's about the N-numbers.".......:nono:
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I would like to see pics of those tagged planes......

On newly built experimentals that the DAR /FAA inspected. some didn't have a paint job yet....

Personally I have seen some amazing paint jobs that hide the N numbers among all the graphics...

That "might " be the issue..:dunno::dunno:
 
As usual lots of wild speculation going on over a Facebook post.

Could be something rather minor or nothing at all. Without any facts available I'll withhold judgement.
 
There is a difference between random inspections and ignoring glaring violations.
 
Neal Howard said:
How does the inspector *know* that those particular individual aircraft have max cruise CAS of greater than 180 kts? All E-AB aircraft are individual and may or may not perform exactly like the kit company's published specs... many of which may be overstated for advertisement purposes.
(Yeah, I know y'all are going to say "But it's a Rocket, everybody already knows those are all fast as %$#&" but are they all? There's gotta be at least one or more Rocket out there that's a dog... all show and no go.)

When the DAR or FAA inspector first inspected and issued the airworthiness cert on an E-AB, the size of the N-numbers on the plane at that time had to be appropriate to the airplane. Why was the AW cert granted if the plane's N-numbers were too small?
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Maybe the sign on the prop that give information about the plane, including its cruise speed. That'll teach them to brag.
 
Geico266 said:
There is also a difference between wild speculation and an April fools joke.
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FAA presence at a major event like SnF is normal. FAA observation of aircraft parked at such events is also normal. And FAA notification to aircraft operators of any plain-sight discrepancies noticed during any observation of an aircraft is also normal. So, I'd say this is most likely the result of a misinterpretation or distortion of FAA Inspectors doing their normal job than an April Fool's joke.
 
Neal Howard said:
When the DAR or FAA inspector first inspected and issued the airworthiness cert on an E-AB, the size of the N-numbers on the plane at that time had to be appropriate to the airplane. Why was the AW cert granted if the plane's N-numbers were too small?
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Neal, Neal, Neal...

Haven't you learned by now that government is allowed to screw up continually without consequence, but everyone else has to meet their standards they set 24/7, just in case they notice you? ;) ;) ;)

(There's smilies after that, but on some days it's not funny and it's not a joke.)
 
denverpilot said:
Neal, Neal, Neal...

Haven't you learned by now that government is allowed to screw up continually without consequence, but everyone else has to meet their standards they set 24/7, just in case they notice you? ;) ;) ;)

(There's smilies after that, but on some days it's not funny and it's not a joke.)
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Well said!:yes:
 
N801BH said:
I would like to see pics of those tagged planes......

On newly built experimentals that the DAR /FAA inspected. some didn't have a paint job yet....

Personally I have seen some amazing paint jobs that hide the N numbers among all the graphics...

That "might " be the issue..:dunno::dunno:
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Ok Geico.... Head to the Vans site and confirm my guess...:D........;)
 
If you go to an airshow no matter how small you better have your paperwork in order, and I mean all of it. I dealt with the FAA all the time in my airline ops job, and about half of them were incompetent jerks with an axe to grind sorry to say. We had one we referred to as Dr. Drip who was a former Western mechanic who had been laid off when DL took over. He was famous for trying to shut down any CFM or Pratt on the field (especially Delta!) with a leak when they went into start mode. I soon became an expert on allowable drips and how many rivets could be missing. After I retired I never saw another ramp check until I flew up to a Santa Maria airshow with the buddy in his T-6.

Everybody was in a happy mood as the warbirds were arriving the next morning. We went out on the field to see what was happening with the warbirds only to be greeted by FIVE Feds busily raising heck over by a friends P-51. He had his paperwork normally back in the luggage spot, but it somehow had been left in the hangar after the annual a short time before the run up to the field, or had blown into a crevice. The two senior FAA guys were "training" the other 3, and this class was "How to throw your weight around and really polish the image of the FAA". This airplane is immaculate and you would know it if I gave you the name, but these guys made sure it was grounded the entire day. No offer to simply go over and get the paper faxed in at the FBO, no nada. So the folks of SMX didn't get to see one of the most exciting birds there, the pilot was in a slow burn.........ticked he didn't catch it..........but incredulous his beautiful bird was grounded. I call baloney on the feds using airshows as a PR play. The buddy got checked but he knew the drill from years of these fly-ins, and he said these guys never missed SMX.
 
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