Extra airspeed on final for safety (on 5000 ft rnwy)

[denverpilot]

No it's not, at least for those of us not lucky enough to have the R/STOL mod like you do - I fly final at 80 mph (69 knots) in the 182 at gross. Pull the power to idle at the beginning of the roundout and with 40 degrees of flaps out she slows down just about perfectly.

Hmm, my regular (non-Robertson) POH for the 182P says full flap power-off stall speed in CAS at Max Gross is 50 knots. No flap, 56.

50 * 1.3 = 65
56 * 1.3 = 72

And there's folks here talking about using 1.2 instead of 1.3 on non-gusty days...

50 * 1.2 = 60
56 * 1.2 = 67.2

And those numbers are at max gross, and CAS. Lighter and IAS would be slower.

61 indicated for approach for 1.3, and about 55 indicated for 1.2 just interpolating from the CAS/IAS chart real quick here. Or in your MPH marked bird, that'd be 70.2 mph for 1.3 VS0 and 63 mph for 1.2.

Other supporting data points from the C-182P POH that relate to this "people fly the 182 too fast" habit:

- White arc starts at 48, Green arc at 53...

- Maximum performance (again, non Robertson, no STOL) takeoff, is 57 knots 50 feet in the air, accelerating to 59 at Sea Level for best angle, and 63 at 10,000' DA for best angle. (You will watch pilot passenger's butts pucker if you show them a 57 knot takeoff in a non-STOL 182.)

- Again those are CAS numbers above. Converting to IAS makes them LOWER.

So..

I still say 80 mph indicated... is still too fast for the approach in the 182. Even without STOL.

Do I fly mine that fast down final often? Sure... the barn doors bleed it off so well you can get away with it. But it's not 1.2 or 1.3 VS0.

 

[TMetzinger]

Again those are CAS numbers above. Converting to IAS makes them LOWER.

182T Skylane manual: 2-4 Limitations:

Va = KCAS 108, KIAS 110.

Bottom of white arc, Vs0 - 40 KIAS (2-5)

Pretty much every time I've looked, in Cessnas KIAS is HIGHER than KCAS.

Section 4 - Normal operations:
Normal approach full flaps - 60-70 KIAS
Short field approach, full flaps - 60 KIAS.

Now, your "in the flare speed" will be lower than these numbers, as you want to be smoothly touching down right before the wing stalls.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Hmm, my regular (non-Robertson) POH for the 182P says full flap power-off stall speed in CAS at Max Gross is 50 knots. No flap, 56.

50 * 1.3 = 65
56 * 1.3 = 72

Yup... And I used that same argument with my CFI when I was getting checked out. But after another 450+ hours in the bird, 80 on final works very well. In fact, I trim for 100mph on downwind, set power at ~12"/2000RPM (slightly out of the governing range on the prop) at the beginning of the descent, put in one notch of flaps at the base turn and the rest on the turn to final, and it settles beautifully in at 80mph and results in a nice stabilized approach and smooth landing.

1.3Vs0 is a guideline - Every plane is different, and the drag-o-matic 182 is going to slow down a lot faster than a slippery bird. Keep in mind, I'm pulling power at probably 50 AGL or more, at the very beginning of the round-out.

You and I should fly together sometime in our respective 182's... It'd be a learning experience for both of us, I'm sure. (And I really want to see that R/STOL at work! )

- Maximum performance (again, non Robertson, no STOL) takeoff, is 57 knots 50 feet in the air, accelerating to 59 at Sea Level for best angle, and 63 at 10,000' DA for best angle. (You will watch pilot passenger's butts pucker if you show them a 57 knot takeoff in a non-STOL 182.)

Vx in ours is 63 mph. That also happens to equal the flaps-up, power-off stall speed so if the engine quits on a max-performance takeoff you'd better get that nose pointed down NOW. I generally don't rotate until 60 mph and don't fly the climb slower than 80 because you're right, the angle is just ridiculous.

 

[jesse]

I am usually about 65 mph (56 knots) on short final in the 182C I fly skydivers in. Works fine, even when I'm landing with 20 knot crosswinds. No floating, nice touchdown.

But it's pretty light, has only one seat, no interior, just me, and about 30 minutes of fuel.

 

[denverpilot]

Yup... And I used that same argument with my CFI when I was getting checked out. But after another 450+ hours in the bird, 80 on final works very well.

Wasn't that one of the points of the thread above, though... that people let their approach speeds creep up unnecessarily?

You and I should fly together sometime in our respective 182's... It'd be a learning experience for both of us, I'm sure. (And I really want to see that R/STOL at work! )

Yeah... if the damn thing didn't have that "Oshkosh Curse" where it can't actually arrive at KOSH without breaking or something else happening somewhere on the way there...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Wasn't that one of the points of the thread above, though... that people let their approach speeds creep up unnecessarily?

Yeah, 'cept mine's never crept up. It's always been 80mph on final since I started flying it.

 

[Henning]

Wasn't that one of the points of the thread above, though... that people let their approach speeds creep up unnecessarily?

Yeah... if the damn thing didn't have that "Oshkosh Curse" where it can't actually arrive at KOSH without breaking or something else happening somewhere on the way there...

Well, nothing wrong with the outer parts of the approach increasing in speed as one gains skill in losing energy at the bottom. It's the last 50' that count, that's the bottom mark you should be trying to be stable in energy and on target for your touchdown point.

 

[TMetzinger]

Yep... I used to fly the River Visual into DCA at 150+ in the mooney, and as I crossed the 395 bridge I could put out the speedbrakes, then the gear, then the flaps, and be at 70 and slowing across the numbers.

Back in the days when I could actually fly into DCA.... and I flew the mooney so often I pretty much just wore it and thought what I wanted and the airplane did it.