Extending Downwind, Traffic Not in Sight

Funkeruski

Funkeruski

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Funkeruski
Went out for a little Solo pattern work this afternoon. This was probably my 5th or so time up in the pattern solo. Airport was kind of busy, and the tower asked me to extend my downwind for traffic on a 4 mile final. I extended my downwind, and looked and looked and looked, and had no joy on the traffic. After a while I figured that he must have already gone past me, and I told the tower I was still looking for traffic. Tower replied that the traffic was already past me on short final, and that I could turn base. By that time the airport was pretty far off, so I increased the throttle a little to get my ass back to the airport. It was farther than I had ever gone on an extended downwind, and probably qualifies as some cross country time. :yesnod:

What's the best way to handle this situation? After a while, do I just tell the tower I'm still looking for traffic? Should I expect the traffic to call my base once the traffic is abeam without me having to call? I know I waited too long to call the tower as I got too far from the Airport.

It's a little different having to spot traffic without my CFI. I'm trying to concentrate on flying the plane and look for traffic. Is this an acquired skill that I will get better at? It better be!! Appreciate any feedback.
 
The opposing traffic isn't going to call your base.

Spotting traffic lower than you can be difficult, depending on the terrain. I've had calls from ATC saying that traffic is at my 12 o'clock, 1 mile, yet neither front seat pilot was able to spot it!

Given his reported 4 mile final, I'd wait about 90 seconds, then make the call you made, saying you had "negative contact". After 90 seconds of two planes in opposite directions, they should be about abeam your position, and the tower, who has sky or cloud as backdrop, can probably identify both of you and make the indication whether you're safe to turn in. Keep your eyes peeled, however, because it's always possible that they've confused two different planes!
 
Thanks for the reply. Meant to type "tower" instead of "traffic" as far as calling my base. On my next go around I got extended again for traffic on final. Couldn't see it either. Tower called me and told me he was off my right wing, but I still coudn't see him. Tower then cleared by base turn. It's an urban area, with building and other structures below the horizon. So it's hard to pick the planes out when they're lower than me.
 
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Funkeruski said:
Thanks for the reply. Meant to type "tower" instead of "traffic" as far as calling my base. On my next go around I got extended again for traffic on final. Couldn't see it either. Tower called me and told me he was off my right wing, but I still coudn't see him. Tower then cleared by base turn. It's an urban area, with building and other structures below the horizon. So it's hard to pick the planes out when they're lower than me.
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Okay, "tower" makes more sense. Yes, it IS hard to pick out targets lower than you in that environment. I have the same situation, flying out of a Chicago suburb. You could always ask them to call your base! Of course, you are still responsible foe see and avoid, but it can certainly help.
 
You did the right thing, waiting and calling the Tower to call your base.

I've seen WAY too many people assume the traffic is past them at controlled airports and turn in on them.

So far... knock on wood... the tower or the other pilot fixed the situation.

We've had a lot of threads here about wild happenings at uncontrolled airports, but some of the stuff I've seen at controlled airports takes the cake.

It's incredible what people will do to make their pattern the comfortable 45 degree thing they learned in training.

There actually is a bit of negative transfer there if a Tower is asking you to extend. You feel like something is "wrong" and want to turn.

Enjoy the mini-XC or if they're WAY out there and the frequency isn't busy and you KNOW you can make it work, offer to make a short approach and let the Tower re-sequence.

(That tactic gets saved for the guy who's making five mile plus base turns... It's a good "hint" that his pattern's a bit long if people are politely asking to turn in ahead of him and easily making it happen.)
 
You probably told them you were a student pilot, which many CFI's recommend with the hope that tower will be a little more solicitous of you. Not saying they will be, but it doesn't hurt.
 
Seeing other airplanes and distant airports is an acquired skill.

You start to learn (subconsciously?) what to see and when the image matches what you're expecting -- voila!

So get a good look at airplanes in flight whenever you can so you learn what to see.
 
While flying into KSBA Santa Barbara years ago, I was given an extended downwind for Runway 15R due to other landing traffic, and tower would call base. After extending downwind for 3-4 miles, the mountains were starting to rise up quite quickly (they reach about 4000', well above the 1000' TPA). I queried tower about my base turn, and was advised "turn base immediately, sorry I forgot about you". Not too comforting. Lesson learned...if something feels off, it probably is.
 
yes, it's common for tower to call your base turn for traffic. This is a perfect example of why it is important to fly accurate headings, avoiding drift.
 
I've seen WAY too many people assume the traffic is past them at controlled airports and turn in on them.
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Yup. I did that when I was a student. Once.

"November blah blah, did you just turn base?"

"Err, yes sir"

The Local Controller, Al, was a particularly gifted lecturer. On climbout and crosswind after my touch-and-go I was treated to a entertaining demonstration of his talents, though I did not view it as entertainment at the time. The guy I cut off was very nice about it.

Now my scenario is often:

"Novembr blah blah, please extend your downwind. You are #2 behind a Barnburner 12."

"November blah blah, negative traffic, would you please call my base?" Easy and safe.

Works great, though I tried it in Saint Honore, Quebec, one time and after a 5 mile downwind it started to become obvious that the Canadian controllers weren't familiar with that phraseology. "November blah blah, over the sewage treatment plant, is it ok to turn base now?"
 
Finding other traffic around the airport was one of the harder things I had to learn. For some reason, I assumed that the planes would look bigger than they actually do.

The first time at another airport (non-towered), we had 4 other planes in the pattern and I got a real good look at just how hard they are to find.

Also, don't be afraid to check in with the tower. I've had the exact same scenario happen in my early solo days. If you're concerned about getting to far away from the airport on an extended downwind, you could ask for a 360 instead. Obviously, that will depend on how busy the pattern is, but it will keep you closer to the airport and out of the way of traffic on final.
 
ScottK said:
Finding other traffic around the airport was one of the harder things I had to learn. For some reason, I assumed that the planes would look bigger than they actually do.

The first time at another airport (non-towered), we had 4 other planes in the pattern and I got a real good look at just how hard they are to find.

Also, don't be afraid to check in with the tower. I've had the exact same scenario happen in my early solo days. If you're concerned about getting to far away from the airport on an extended downwind, you could ask for a 360 instead. Obviously, that will depend on how busy the pattern is, but it will keep you closer to the airport and out of the way of traffic on final.
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Where from in Southwest, PA, Scott? (it's a small GA community out there!)
 
I had never heard the term "negative contact" before this thread. I'll use that next time. Thanks for the advice folks.
 
I had a scary thing happen to me once while on final for 24 at KAPC. A Bonanza, who was #2 in sequence for landing on a long straight in, overflew me after I was already cleared to land. I heard a big "whoosh" above me and he cleared me by probably no more than 20 feet. How he could not see me I don't know, maybe the narrow valley that is the approach to 24 was a distraction. The Bonanza was doing some sort of serious high speed approach - I was going about 75 kts at the time (typical final speed for an Arrow) and he passed me like I was standing still.

I let the tower know what happened, in an agitated tone of voice. Tower said "You were supposed to follow the Bonanza, #2", after which, I increased the level of agitation in my voice and told them "No, I called first and you already cleared me to land. I don't have mirrors on this thing!"

After a short pause the tower told the Bonanza to do a go around, and admonished him for overtaking me.
 
dmccormack said:
Where from in Southwest, PA, Scott? (it's a small GA community out there!)
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I think we talked before. I live in Greensburg and fly out of KLBE. I just passed my checkride on Dec. 13th, and have been using my license to learn reading a lot. The wx has been terrible and I've only managed to get 4 loops in the pattern since then.
 
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ScottK said:
I think we talked before. I live in Greensburg and fly out of KLBE. I just passed my checkride on Dec. 13th, and have been using my license to learn reading a lot. The wx has been terrible and I've only managed to get 4 loops in the pattern since then.
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Congratulations!

Wx has been bad -- typical Dec-Jan weather for SW PA!
 
I have been asked to extend my downwind leg many times during training, and even had it where I end up being # 3 or 4 to land because I got extended out to far. When ATC get's busy, sometimes they forget they launched you out so far, especially if you miss the traffic you extended for, so you didn't turn base.

Don't be afraid to ask the tower, as many have said. I came to enjoy talking with the tower during training, as they were always very helpful, especially when you can not make contact with another aircraft. With more time under your belt, you will start to find spotting aircraft a little easier.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I let the tower know what happened, in an agitated tone of voice. Tower said "You were supposed to follow the Bonanza, #2", after which, I increased the level of agitation in my voice and told them "No, I called first and you already cleared me to land. I don't have mirrors on this thing!"

After a short pause the tower told the Bonanza to do a go around, and admonished him for overtaking me.
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That's the one advantage of flying a C-150. They have a mirror. :D


To the OP, you did fine. When in doubt, ask. I had traffic near me last Saturday that I didn't see, either. And I knew exactly, down to the paint job, what that plane looked like. Fortunately, he could see me, was cleared behind me and was slower (C-172 and I was flying a C-182).
 
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