Expensive Photos - Rant

denverpilot said:
Let the cheapskates have their $200 shoots Jack, stick with those who understand your costs without you having to explain it to them. Better customers to have.

@iamtheari , the damned 60 Hz hum on that Fender was driving me nuts trying to listen to him play.
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So listen to the trumpet guy instead. :) Anyhow, his real rig is noisy, too. He just plays loud so you don’t notice it. The point is that a great artist makes the same art with cheap crap as with the best gear. If @Lowflynjack did his shoots with an old iPhone, I would still pick him over the cheap competition using a $20,000 medium format setup.
 
iamtheari said:
So listen to the trumpet guy instead. :) Anyhow, his real rig is noisy, too. He just plays loud so you don’t notice it. The point is that a great artist makes the same art with cheap crap as with the best gear. If @Lowflynjack did his shoots with an old iPhone, I would still pick him over the cheap competition using a $20,000 medium format setup.
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I got the point. I just wouldn’t buy a Fender. ;)
 
iamtheari said:
Art comes from the artist, not from the tools.

A good photographer can take great pictures with an iPhone.
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I have a friend who is a photographer in Hollywood. He occasionally posts quick photos from his iPhone of what he's working on. These photos are always amazing. They won't have be on the poster, the dvd or the advertising, but they are *obviously* shot by a pro!

JGoodish said:
I will look at this purely from a customer perspective. If I want to purchase a product or service, I quite frankly don't care what your costs are. If the market is competitive
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There are a couple things here.

1) Many (most?) markets aren't competitive in any meaningful way. A lot of this is due to IP law, but that's not everything either.

2) More importantly, you should absolutely care because it's a tool to make sure you aren't getting scammed and that you are buying something of the quality you expect. If the input costs on an item are $5 and you are buying it for $5.25 then that's a clue that something is suffering. It might be quality, it might be support, it might be stolen, it might be misrepresented. In our business we see people using household cleaners that can cause actual damage to airplanes. Knowing more about the way products are made, and what they are made of, is a powerful tool for educated consumers.
 
Thanks for all of the comments. Some assumed I didn't explain my expenses to him, but I did. I didn't get down to the penny and part of what I called profit really isn't. It could be profit, but I'll usually choose to buy dinner for me and the pilot, pay for any hotel expenses, drinks, etc. I gave him my cheapest price and he acted like I was trying to rob him. I'm not mad at him, but I choose not to do business with him. Honestly this is mostly something I do for fun. I have a day job that pays the bills. If I'm not enjoying this, I won't do it. If I can cover the expenses, I'm usually happy. My hobbies are flying and photography... combining the two is all I can ask for.

I want the airshows, magazine covers, and hope to offer photos to the little guy (like me) who can't pay $3000+ for a photo shoot. If I can't do it for a cost that works for you, I might be able to find someone in your area that can do it without the travel expenses.

In the end, when someone doesn't just say it's a little expensive, or more than they thought it would be, but "are you kidding me?" in a derogatory tone, I'll assume negotiation is a waste of my time. I started at my lowest cost to help him, and he acted like I was robbing him. I'll have to assume I won't be able to make this guy happy and I would rather spend my time doing something else.

I'm spending a lot of my own money right now to get my name out there with free photo shoots, working with the EAA, etc. I chose to do this. I'm having a blast, seeing some cool planes, and meeting a lot of good pilots. You won't hear me complaining!
 
Lowflynjack said:
At another friend's wedding I was taking a few photos before the wedding and the "professional" saw me. He asked my friend to tell me to stop taking photos. It was his wedding, so I said okay and put the camera away. The photographer skipped town with their money and never gave them one photo. The only pics they have are the ones I took before and that wasn't many.
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Short translation by the other photographer: "Oh crap, that's a nice camera and he probably knows how to use it! When the bride compares pictures, she'll wonder why she hired me!";)
 
danhagan said:
Short translation by the other photographer: "Oh crap, that's a nice camera and he probably knows how to use it! When the bride compares pictures, she'll wonder why she hired me!";)
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Well, in this case it was, that photographer will get photos of me they can use as evidence when I rip them off! I thought it was strange because when he was posing them for the static shots, I was taking photos of him taking photos of them. I was going to give him the shots too.
 
Jack, don't sweat it. Some people are just like that. We all have quirks.

An educated customer is a smart customer. Though it seems that this customer did not really care to educate himself. You explained the situation to him which he was not necessarily inclined to accept.
He will need to find someone local who does not need to travel, that will save some expense. Or you could also ask him to provide transport and photo-ship for you, if he has friends who will do it for free. That's another way to save money. Maybe one day he might understand.

In the meantime, keep flying and shooting great pictures! :thumbsup:
 
rwellner98 said:
There are a couple things here.

1) Many (most?) markets aren't competitive in any meaningful way. A lot of this is due to IP law, but that's not everything either.
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Huh? There are some markets with little competition, but most markets (especially for commodities) are highly competitive in a number of different ways. Even when IP is involved. It’s a good thing, too, otherwise consumers would be stuck with monopoly pricing.


rwellner98 said:
2) More importantly, you should absolutely care because it's a tool to make sure you aren't getting scammed and that you are buying something of the quality you expect. If the input costs on an item are $5 and you are buying it for $5.25 then that's a clue that something is suffering. It might be quality, it might be support, it might be stolen, it might be misrepresented. In our business we see people using household cleaners that can cause actual damage to airplanes. Knowing more about the way products are made, and what they are made of, is a powerful tool for educated consumers.
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An educated consumer is one thing, but that has more to do with product selection than a seller’s costs. If I am comparing products and services, I’m comparing output and value. It’s an assessment of what I receive for what I pay. I quite frankly don’t care whether you sell below cost, or what your margins are. If you use higher quality raw materials and therefore generate a higher quality product, that might justify a higher price, but it is your job to sell the differentiator. I, like most educated consumers, primarily care about the output and tend to select the lowest priced provider for an equivalent quality product.

In my area, the “we don’t compete, we’re a small business” attitude is rampant. Many of these businesses do not survive for long. The ones who do are usually lucky enough to benefit from decades-old loyalty or local government contracts, but they aren’t growing beyond that point. Many of them are just fine with that status quo, but if the table tips a little they’ll be in trouble. I’m not sure that’s a position I’d want to be in as a small business owner.


JKG
 
Cheapskates suck.

While reading your OP, I forgot where I was (on pilot forum) and thought I was on the Gear Page (musicians) forum.
Musicians get this all the time. Much like the costs for airplane, equipment, fuel, we have equipment, maintenance, etc. and then the practice time, both band (which means renting a practice place) and on your own time.

Haul in, set up (many hours before the gig) then wait (usually a few hours at least) play three sets, haul out, go home, haul in (the practice place) and often the rates are such that a band member gets anything from 50 bucks on to on a great gig couple hundred.

And the ones hiring the band think "what a sweet deal they have. Play for three hours and they make SO much money!"

Everybody wants to underpay. But on the other hand, I had a buddy knew a guy that made wrought iron streetlights for homes. My buddy ran into the guys wife after the 2008 finance crisis, and carefully asked how they were doing. She smiled "never better! We weren't selling so many before and so he decided to try upping the price tag, and now we are selling like hotcakes!"

Sometimes the world makes no sense. Until you remember that cheapskates suck. Then it falls into place.
 
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Anymouse said:
Speaking of which, I just read something that said there would be a new Jimi album coming out with some previously unreleased songs.
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Doesn't surprise me. Record companies hold rights to many musicians music and release it years after the musician has passed away. Or they put a couple unreleased songs on the album with already released music and hope fans buy it. They do.
 
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