Shepherd
Final Approach
re: Title
They like to think so.
They like to think so.
Expensive airplanes have right-of-way
- Thread starter brien23
- Start date
Tantalum
Final Approach
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2017
- Messages
- 9,250
- Display Name
Display name:
San_Diego_Pilot
??
I'm confused and feel like I missed out on an inside joke somewhere
..but I'll bite; I've always felt faster planes get priority.. I've been vectored around for traffic in the Cirrus to make way for PC12, King Air, and corporate jets.. which I thought was ridiculous since those planes arguably are not going much faster (if at all) than me... but fine.. a 3,000 lb plane is still easier to change course than a 10,000 lb plane
I don't think the controller cares how much the plane costs.. hell, he (or she) could have the exact same prejudices against the ubiquitous monopoly man rich guy. But really, if you think about it, the fact of the matter is that a plane doing 120 knots will make a much bigger standard rate turn than a plane doing 75 knots.. and the A320 will also make a much bigger standard rate turn at 200 knots than the guy who thinks he's a hot shot for doing 160.. not really worth getting upset over. Plenty of heavy commercial jet aircraft get sent around daily at KSAN or vectored for traffic.. unfortunately if you are buzzing along in a light, slow, SE GA plane you are going to be easier to maneuver than a bigger faster one..
Sounds to me like you have had one or two experiences and generalized the whole thing against a group of people. I doubt the guy almost flew a Bonanza into the mountains.. ATC have pretty strict clearances and altitudes they have to maintain.. and the PIC should always be situationally aware anyway, nothing stopping the Bo guy from saying "unable, there's a mounting ahead of me"
PS - sailors love doing this kind of thing.. some dude in a 19' o'day (tiny sailboat for the non sailors) will play chicken with an oil tanker... "BAH! I'm a sailboat, they have to give me right of way, I'm approaching from the right, he's on my lee side, I can't change course!" ... it's like, dude.. come on, it's so much easier for you in the 20 foot boat to change course for 5 minutes than for the Disney Cruise ship to start figuring out how NOT to hit you
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Reminds me of a story an old Chief Mate told me when I was a cadet on a container ship.
He was leaving the Seattle area on an APL container ship and some sailboat called him up and was insisting that he move the ship because the other dude was a sailboat.
The Mate responded with: “Captain, do you know what it sounds like when fiberglass hits steel? Because you’re gonna have to tell me. I won’t be able to hear it all the way up here in the pilot house”
The sailboat changed course.....
benyflyguy
En-Route
Lol. I actually did call a 6 mile final in IMC with howling winds last week doing 60kts gs in the 182. Hard time staying on glideslope at just under 200 ft/min decent. It was a fun day!!
texasclouds
En-Route
I was second today behind a t-38. He came straight in while I was poking downwind at 2300 RPM. That dude was cookin in compared to my rented 172.
Tantalum
Final Approach
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2017
- Messages
- 9,250
- Display Name
Display name:
San_Diego_Pilot
Yes, I don't get why people get butthurt about this. We did a fly out to Oceano at San Luis Obispo with the club a few months back, I flew a regular pattern in the Cirrus even though straight in was favorable. Short runway and I wanted to give myself time to get setup right. I later sat out in the grass with a radio watching people land, and you'd be surprised how many people did not call in and came straight in. And most of the guys who were coming straight in were and Cherokees, Skyhawks, etc.. if you are not jamming up someone else's day or causing an unsafe situation then I don't really see the big deal
AnthonyS1
Pre-takeoff checklist
I always try to fly straight in if possible. Why do a full pattern if your lined up and the traffic pattern is empty? After I got my PPL one of my CFI's would hear me call making a straight in on the CTAF and scold me about it once I got on the ground. The guy was dead against making straight in's and instructed me that I should be entering on a 45 for the downwind everytime. I would basically just yeah yeah yeah him and just do what I want. Would **** him off to no end and had maybe 3 talks with me about it. Told me I was cocky lol. I probably was as a 17 year old pilot 10-15 years ago looking back.
NKTFlyer
Pre-Flight
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2016
- Messages
- 81
- Display Name
Display name:
NKTFlyer
The clear answer here is that e'erbody needs to come full throttle into the overhead break, and get in line on downwind. Just don't get mad when someone breaks at the numbers and beats you in.
That's tongue in cheek, but bottom line, the straight in is just as valid as the pattern. In fact, they integrate nicely as long as the players have joined the modern era and have some way of communicating other than hand and arm signals.. My favorite example is the NORDO Beech Staggerwing I happened upon (you own and maintain a vintage fabric aircraft with leather and mohair interior but you refuse to carry a radio? You're so retro.)My other favorite is watching guys fly directly across the departure corridor to join an empty left pattern for no reason other than because. Apply some critical thinking.
That's tongue in cheek, but bottom line, the straight in is just as valid as the pattern. In fact, they integrate nicely as long as the players have joined the modern era and have some way of communicating other than hand and arm signals.. My favorite example is the NORDO Beech Staggerwing I happened upon (you own and maintain a vintage fabric aircraft with leather and mohair interior but you refuse to carry a radio? You're so retro.)My other favorite is watching guys fly directly across the departure corridor to join an empty left pattern for no reason other than because. Apply some critical thinking.
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
What’s next? 172 drivers demanding respect.
James331
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2014
- Messages
- 20,309
- Display Name
Display name:
James331
When did you get a 185??? Thumbs up! Did you get one with the IO-520?
As a member of the club, 520 and all..he qualifies
Skyhawk lives matter
woodchucker
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
- Messages
- 1,840
- Display Name
Display name:
woodchucker
Lol that’s funny. One of my sisters started training but gave it up. Afterwards she flew with me once. Our destination was a tiny podunk airport I had never been to. Winds were favorable for a straight in and no traffic so in I went. Afterwards she was like ummmm I thought there was some procedure to be followed. I just told her that sometimes you have to cowboy them in. I’m not sure she was impressed.
I’ll fly straight in all day long if there is no traffic. Otherwise I’ll work myself into the pattern.
Mtns2Skies
Final Approach
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2008
- Messages
- 5,631
- Display Name
Display name:
Mtns2Skies
Okaaaay I might have an O-470.... But it's a 185......... AirframeAs a member of the club, 520 and all..he qualifies
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2015
- Messages
- 9,306
- Display Name
Display name:
Aztec Flyer
That's the problem with the youngsters in aviation these days...no respect for tradition. 
Everybody knows:
Everybody knows:
- Twins have priority over single engine;
- Low wings have priority over high wings;
- Low wings with canopies that can be opened in flight come ahead of those without;
- Cantilevered high wings have priority over the ones with wing assist bars;
- Except when the strut-braced high wing is a taildragger, in which case it goes first;
- Rag & tube taildraggers go ahead of metal ones at grass airstrips, for paved runways its the opposite;
- Planes on amphibious floats are a sign the pilot suffers from dissociative identity disorder and should be respected accordingly;
- Plastic airplanes come ahead of everything else, because we all know they will fall out of the sky if forced to slow down too much.
Last edited:
Juliet Hotel
En-Route
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2018
- Messages
- 2,634
- Display Name
Display name:
Juliet Hotel
So you can see the field and what is shaping up, if anything, on the ground. Its a lot easier to see a herd of deer standing in the grass halfway down the runway if you're flying a downwind leg than it is if you're flying a 3 mile final. Also a good idea to fly a downwind so NORDO aircraft on the ground can see you. A plane in the downwind or on base presents a side view and has movement in the sky when viewed from an aircraft positioned at the hold short line. A plane on a 3 mile final is a dot in the sky that is slowing getting bigger. These are some of my reasons for doing it. YMMV.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Ah, that sailboat captain in your example is a moron, pretty sure the oil tanker or cruise ship has the right of way, even over the sailboat.
MooneyDriver78
En-Route
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2013
- Messages
- 4,692
- Display Name
Display name:
Tom
That's the problem with the youngsters in aviation these days...no respect for tradition.
Everybody knows:
- Plastic airplanes come ahead of everything else, because we all know they will fall out of the sky if forced to slow down too much.
Since they have parachutes, who cares
. Then they can brag about another save, so it’s a win-win.
MooneyDriver78
En-Route
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2013
- Messages
- 4,692
- Display Name
Display name:
Tom
Correct, it’s the “Law of Gross Tonnage”.
Ravioli
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2014
- Messages
- 8,021
- Location
- Somewhere else
- Display Name
Display name:
Unwanted Guest - Perma-ban Pending
But EVERYONE has an iPad with ForeFlight and can identify JISNA in their sleep. [everyone but me, I use 430W for that since I won't afford a GTN]
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2005
- Messages
- 15,263
- Location
- Southeast Tennessee
- Display Name
Display name:
This page intentionally left blank
IIRC, it depends. If the ship is restricted in maneuvering, like in a channel, then yes. Otherwise, no. But, as others have said, Law of Gross Tonnage does apply.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2015
- Messages
- 9,306
- Display Name
Display name:
Aztec Flyer
I learned to sail as a teenager in Puget Sound and the waters off Seattle and Vancouver, Canada. Still fly back there occasionally and charter a keel boat. With the advent of giant cruise boats (nice intimate party of 4000
) on the summer Alaska cruise run it can get fun. At English Bay in Vancouver, an afternoon sailing usually means reaching back and forth between Spanish Banks and the North Shore, perpendicular to the mouth of the harbor. The cruise boats leave the harbor terminal in the late afternoon heading straight west under the Lions Gate and into English Bay. You can see their large white bow waves from a very long distance, as they are in a hurry to get out into the strait and get turned northward so they are broadside to the setting sun. They don't "take prisoners" if you get in their way. All us little boat sailors know this old ditty:
"Here lies the body of Johnny O'Day
Who died Preserving His Right of Way.
He was Right, Dead Right, as he sailed along
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong"
quoted by Eric Hiscock in "Cruising Under Sail", Oxford University Press, 1950.
Who died Preserving His Right of Way.
He was Right, Dead Right, as he sailed along
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong"
quoted by Eric Hiscock in "Cruising Under Sail", Oxford University Press, 1950.
Last edited:
Tantalum
Final Approach
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2017
- Messages
- 9,250
- Display Name
Display name:
San_Diego_Pilot
@GRG55 I love that! I grew up sailing with my dad, he still has a C&C 36. And he was an adamant right-of-way enthusiast.. one of our biggest family fights occurred when he insisted that he had the right of way over an aircraft carrier.. it was downright scary, and he finally acquiesced after they hailed us on the radio
I'm sending that thing to him right now actually LOL
I'm sending that thing to him right now actually LOL
brien23
Cleared for Takeoff
Got to love a sailboat no sails up under power and still think they have the right of way as a sailboat.
danhagan
En-Route
They already knew who I was, and my hangar is there ...
Super AWOS at the time of that situation (same frequency) ... but as of last year, we now have a separate frequency for ATIS so that excuse might work now