Exam Question.

ChiLandFlyer

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Sebastian
I want to become a pilot in the future (I'm 14), but I was diagnosed w/ ADHD/ADD at age 7. However, I am starting to control this w/o the medicine. So, if my doctor states I no longer have ADHD/ADD, will the FAA know I ever had ADHD/ADD when I take the Medical Exam?
 
Search this forum for ADHD and ADD and you'll find a few threads that will have a more complete answer than mine.

But in a nutshell, the prior diagnosis has created a big hill to climb when it comes to FAA medical certification. DO NOT GO TO A FLIGHT SURGEON OR AVIATION MEDICAL EXAMINER until you have had a consultation with a very Senior AME such as Dr. Bruce Chien in Peoria. If you ignored this and went anyway, you run the risk of being denied the medical. And Denial means you cannot become a pilot of ASEL or bigger aircraft.

ADD/ADHD is a disqualifying condition. And you will need expert guidance if you wish to see the fruition of your pilot dream.

Finally, none of this is going to be low cost. Be prepared to spend many thousands of dollars on the consultations and psychiatry exams. And even then there is no guarantee that you will obtain your certification.
 
If you fill out the medical form, yes.

BUT DO NOT DO THIS.


Reach out to Dr. Chien in Peoria and ask him for a consult... not a live exam.

Dr. Chien is one of the Best AME's out there.... He will provide the right info, and will aid you where he can....
 
You are lucky that Dr. Bruce Chien is close to where you are. This really is not a joke. You need to contact him before you do anything toward obtaining your medical.
 
You will have to report it on the form to get a medical. Pre-existing conditions and current conditions all have to be reported to the FAA.
 
Disabusing an ADD / ADHD diagnosis isn't as easy as a doctor saying "the kid doesn't have it any more." As far as the FAA and most medical authorities are concerned, once you have it, you always have it.

The FAA is well aware, however, that many (if not most) childhood ADD / ADHD diagnoses are dubious, at best; so they do provide a path to certification. To become certified, you have to prove either that you never had it to begin with, or that you currently don't suffer from it in any way that is significant enough to affect your ability to fly. It's a spectrum sort of disorder along a continuum, after all, not a "yes" or "no" thing.

Either way, the protocol is the same, and involves a specified series of psych tests completed after you have been off any medications for a certain period of time. I think it's 60 days, but I could be wrong. The tests are rather expensive, but otherwise painless. They don't drill holes in your noggin or anything like that. Usually.

The important thing, as others have stated, is not to fill out any paperwork nor see an AME for the actual physical until you know you will pass. Fortunately, you have two years before you would have any need of a medical, so you have plenty of time to get this taken care of before then. Email Dr. Bruce if he doesn't stop by here, and do whatever he suggests before even thinking about filling out any forms.

In the meantime, you may want to consider gliders. You're already old enough to solo a glider, you don't and will never need a medical, and you'll learn a great deal in the process. Learning to fly gliders will make you a better pilot no matter what you wind up flying in the end.

Rich
 
Unless your folks were drugging you with stuff they bought under the table, it'll be in a database.

As others have said you're going to have a little bit of a semi expensive pain in the arse getting your medical, have mom and dad pay for it, least they could do.

Heres Dr Bruce's site, he's the go to guy for stuff like this, as other have also said, talk to him before you start ANY formal medical application, ie you need a consult and a plan of action. http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com

Sorry man.
 
What everyone said here is all you need to know. Set up a consult with Dr. Bruce, you can do it all by email/phone/fax until the actual medical. He can save you many, many hours, weeks, years of frustration - and like others said - you don't need the medical until you are 16 and solo. So get Dr. B involved now so you know what to do, and not to do.
 
You might also want to discuss this with your parents, and get them to talk with your doctor. There might not be anything he can do about the diagnosis - in order to convince FAA that you don't have ADHD he would pretty much have to admit he made a mistaken diagnosis. But he might be willing to assist you and your parents.

Because you've been diagnosed, FAA will know (you have to tell them). FAA considers ADHD as a lifetime illness, if you have it, you always have it. You might be able to cope with it, but if you really DO have it then you always will. FAA does have ways to let you fly, but you'll have to follow a pretty strict set of guidelines. As others have said, you can check with an expert in this and see how he suggests you proceed. One of the experts who has helped a lot of people in your situation is Dr. Bruce and previous posters have included his contact information. You can let him know your situation and ask him for some advice on what steps to take.
 
ChiLandFLyer: You're only 14 and don't appreciate the sea change that occurred with the Affordable Care act of 2010. FAA has all your pharmacy codes, so if you lie and omit the report, the first time anything happens to you it will be discovered, you will forfeit any pilot certificate(s) you may have earned. Besides, you will not be able to hold the ATP certificate (Airline Transport Certificate, check out 61.153(c)) for a lonnnng time then, because there is a "good moral character clause" to that certificate.

The waiver pathway requires that a neuropsychologist known to the FAA do the attached evaluation at greater than 60 days after when the MEDICAL RECORD says you quit the pills. The will test your pee at the time of the evaluation, too.

The entire treatment record has to be in the evaluator's hands, too-->or no evaluation.

You have to beat the bottom 15% of aviators aged 16-26 in order to be certified. No insurances apply to what is actually "occupational evaluation". This is NOT HEALTHCARE. Trying, with a local psychologist cripples the effort. That person doesn't even possess aviation norms. One guy tried with a local psychologist, and his local psychologist found the OLD aviator norms and scored them that way. That was a waste. The new set was May 2015.

This is no wiggle room here. The family doc or pediatrician is not considered federally qualified to say, "oops, we made an error". That is the province of the neurocognitive specialist. The eight hour long evaluation- think in terms of $3,000.
 
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ChiLandFLyer: You're only 14 and don't appreciate the sea change that occurred with the Affordable Care act of 2010. FAA has all your pharmacy codes, so if you lie and omit the report, the first time anything happens to you it will be discovered, you will forfeit any pilot certificate(s) you may have earned. Besides, you will not be able to hold the ATP certificate (Airline Transport Certificate, check out 61.153(c)) for a lonnnng ...
I looked on the FAA website of the evaluations/tests I need, and for some of the tests, I get well above the average. Despite my ADHD, I am have an IQ of 135, as i took the test 3 years ago to get in advanced classes. That was three years ago, and a recent test said IQ is 145, so the The Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale is no problem. I did the trail making test when I was diagnosed and passes with flying colors. In fact, I passed most of the tests.
The reason I got diagnosed was because I move in my seat, tap my fingers, lose things a lot, talk a lot, and can't start objectives.
 
I looked on the FAA website of the evaluations/tests I need, and for some of the tests, I get well above the average. Despite my ADHD, I am have an IQ of 135, as i took the test 3 years ago to get in advanced classes. That was three years ago, and a recent test said IQ is 145, so the The Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale is no problem. I did the trail making test when I was diagnosed and passes with flying colors. In fact, I passed most of the tests.
The reason I got diagnosed was because I move in my seat, tap my fingers, lose things a lot, talk a lot, and can't start objectives.

Oh boy, so why are/were you taking all these IQ tests and whatnot?

At 14 I was doing all sorts of stuff, racing sailboats, building stuff, flying and building RC(folks didn't have the money to pay for flight training), but taking all these IQ, Wechsler, ADHD, etc tests wasn't even on my, or my folks, radar, as for moving in your seat, tapping fingers and loosing stuff, think that's called being a kid.
 
Once again, there is no wiggle room. You have to have the test battery done, preferably (save you about six months of wait time for procession) by a HIMS recognized Aviation neuropsychologist. Saying you get hi marks means zilch, zero, nada.

"So I was moving, tapping my fingers" doesn't mean squat either, but the prescriptions mean, "some physician think this airman has ADD". Get it?
 
I looked on the FAA website of the evaluations/tests I need, and for some of the tests, I get well above the average. Despite my ADHD, I am have an IQ of 135, as i took the test 3 years ago to get in advanced classes. That was three years ago, and a recent test said IQ is 145, so the The Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale is no problem. I did the trail making test when I was diagnosed and passes with flying colors. In fact, I passed most of the tests.
The reason I got diagnosed was because I move in my seat, tap my fingers, lose things a lot, talk a lot, and can't start objectives.

Let's see if I can help simplify this...

First of all, I am not surprised by your situation. In fact, I'd wager that 90 percent or more of all childhood ADD / ADHD diagnoses are bovine excrement. They were handed down for the convenience of teachers and the financial enrichment of school districts. There's money in diagnosing kids as "special," even if they're not.

The problem is that once a diagnosis made, it's official, and in this case lifelong. The doctor who made the diagnosis may have been a hack, a quack, a charlatan, a fool, a fraud, or all of the above. It doesn't matter. As long as he or she had a license, the diagnosis is official.

What this means for you is that if you want to ever fly more than gliders, free balloons, or LSA, then it is up to you to do as Dr. Bruce has advised you to do. There is no other path to medical certification for you. None. Nada. Zilch.

No, it's not fair that you're in that position. But fair or not, it is what it is.

Rich
 
In fact, I'd wager that 90 percent or more of all childhood ADD / ADHD diagnoses are bovine excrement. They were handed down for the convenience of teachers and the financial enrichment of school districts. There's money in diagnosing kids as "special," even if they're not.
Ummmmmmmmmm.

No.

There is no money for the schools that comes from just a diagnosis of ADHD.

I gotta call bovine excrement on this one.
 
Ummmmmmmmmm.

No.

There is no money for the schools that comes from just a diagnosis of ADHD.

I gotta call bovine excrement on this one.

Of course they do. It's even been a subject of Congressional hearings. It involves twisting the meaning and intent of several Federal laws and programs relating to special education funding, but the education industry has no problem doing things like that.

This is something I've been through in my own family. A public school administrator actually went as far as admitting to me that he didn't care whether the child in question actually took the medications, as long as the prescription stayed in effect and the child kept seeing the shrink as required under the school's "program" for ADD / ADHD kids so they could continue to get the special ed funding, except he phrased it as "the money to pay for the help [the child] needs."

The "help" and the "program," as far as I could tell, consisted of nothing other than medicating the kids. There were no special classes, assignments, counseling, training in coping strategies, or anything like that. They had to see a shrink contracted by the school for three minutes every month so they could get their prescriptions renewed, and that was that. In the meantime, every kid in the "program" was subsidized as a "special education" student, for which the school received extra funding.

The fact that there's no specific subsidy earmarked for ADD / ADHD kids doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It happens all the time as an abuse of various laws, especially the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) of 1975, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.

Rich
 
Of course they do. It's even been a subject of Congressional hearings. It involves twisting the meaning and intent of several Federal laws and programs relating to special education funding, but the education industry has no problem doing things like that.

This is something I've been through in my own family. A public school administrator actually went as far as admitting to me that he didn't care whether the child in question actually took the medications, as long as the prescription stayed in effect and the child kept seeing the shrink as required under the school's "program" for ADD / ADHD kids so they could continue to get the special ed funding, except he phrased it as "the money to pay for the help [the child] needs."

I've been through this as well with my family.

1) Just getting a diagnosis from a doctor of ADHD does not automatically qualify a student for special education. I'm willing to bet that Mr. ChiLandFlyer was not in special ed.
2) I have found that educators will do what they can to do what is best for the student.
 
I've been through this as well with my family.

1) Just getting a diagnosis from a doctor of ADHD does not automatically qualify a student for special education. I'm willing to bet that Mr. ChiLandFlyer was not in special ed.

He (or she) may have been and not known it. My family member didn't know until the child mentioned to the shrink that s/he had stopped taking the meds and was doing just fine without them. What a ****storm that started.

2) I have found that educators will do what they can to do what is best for the student.

I partially agree. I have found that teachers usually will do what they believe is best for the student. I have great respect for teachers as long as they stay teachers.

Public school administrators, not so much. It has been my experience that most of them truly don't give a rat's ass about anything other than maximizing their schools' or districts' revenue streams. The kids are just a commodity for them. If they could get the funding without the annoyance of having to deal with the students, they'd jump on it in a heartbeat.

Since I got dragged into this ADD / ADHD debacle, I have come to hold public school administrators in even lower regard than I hold politicians -- and I detest politicians. That should give you some idea about how my experiences with school administrators have gone. That most of them were once teachers is baffling. I guess it only proves that scum rises to the top.

Granted, my experiences were not with what you'd call the best school districts in America, so maybe others are better. I certainly hope so.

Rich
 
If that was the case schools wouldn't have been pushing tranqs on the kids harder then streetside drug dealers

Technically most of the drugs prescribed for ADD/ADHD are "uppers", not "tranqs". I'll leave it to the pros to explain why that works.
 
Technically most of the drugs prescribed for ADD/ADHD are "uppers", not "tranqs". I'll leave it to the pros to explain why that works.

I'm not a big drug guy, don't even take Tylenol, but I thought the point of drugging these kids was to make them mellow and easier for the teachers to "manage"
 
I'm not a big drug guy, don't even take Tylenol, but I thought the point of drugging these kids was to make them mellow and easier for the teachers to "manage"

With attention disorders the drugs (as best as I can explain it) are uppers that somehow raise their ability to focus. I read a cheesy non-medical book on it long ago, but I'm sure the Internet even has better info than that.

Adderall for example is about as far away from a tranquilizer as one can get. The kids sell it on the black market at colleges these days to friends who need to pull multi day cram sessions for poor study planning. Dangerous and stupid.

That drug and drugs like it are probably our highest source of calls to the callcenter at work where people fail drug tests for amphetamines and then call in and prove they have a prescription talking to the medical review folks.

You wouldn't believe how many people are on the stuff.

Well you might actually if you are a casual observer of the constantly overstimulated pop culture we've created with media and ubiquitous data access...
 
I'm not a big drug guy, don't even take Tylenol, but I thought the point of drugging these kids was to make them mellow and easier for the teachers to "manage"

That may in fact be the goal, but the mechanism is the opposite of what one might expect. The stimulants are believed to act on a very primitive and vital system in the brain that's called the Reticular Activating System (RAS). The RAS, among many other functions that are essential to life, acts as a bridge between sensory input and states of wakefulness and attentiveness. It gets our attention when its needed.

The RAS is the reason why alarm clocks wake us up, why cockpit annunciators get our attention, why we may jump when we hear a loud noise, why we curse and look at the speedometer when we see a cop's flashing lights in the rear-view mirror, and so forth. It detects from sensory input that something is happening that requires our immediate attention, so it places us in an attentive state.

What the stimulant drugs do is maintain that attentive state even when the situation at hand may not require or warrant it. In the case of school children, it keeps them paying attention even when the subject matter is as boring as hell to them, when they are preoccupied with other concerns or problems, or when they already grasp the content but are forced to sit through it again and again until the rest of the class understands it. It focuses their attention; and in the process the signs of boredom like fidgeting and so forth recede.

There was no such thing as ADD / ADHD when I was a kid. It hadn't been invented yet. But I know that I was bored as hell for most of third-grade math because I'd already memorized the "times tables," but I still had to sit through interminable drills by Mrs. Maresca until the rest of the class understood them.

She could tell my mind was wandering far from the classroom and that I was thinking about anything other than her interminable droning. Sometimes I'd be doodling, other times making paper airplanes, and still other times literally falling asleep. So she'd trigger my RAS by rapping her yardstick on the desk and yelling my first and last names. Once she got my attention, she'd ask me a multiplication question, which I would immediately answer correctly.

It really ****ed her off.

Nowadays I'd probably be diagnosed with ADD and medicated. But the reality is that I was just bored because I already knew the times tables and was tired of listening to them being repeated every day.

Rich
 
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Taking the OP's statements on his IQ at face value, I suspect what was going on at 7 years old with the OP is that he was bored out of his mind and struggling in school because of it. In our school district, kids aren't tested for a gifted-and-talented program until they are in 2nd grade, and many kids struggle in 1st and 2nd grade because of it (compounded but No Child Left Behind, which forces teachers to teach mostly to the middle). Many school districts, if they even have a gifted-and-talented program don't start it until later grades, by which point many of these kids have been targeted as being on the ADD/ADHD, just because they are different.
 
Taking the OP's statements on his IQ at face value, I suspect what was going on at 7 years old with the OP is that he was bored out of his mind and struggling in school because of it. In our school district, kids aren't tested for a gifted-and-talented program until they are in 2nd grade, and many kids struggle in 1st and 2nd grade because of it (compounded but No Child Left Behind, which forces teachers to teach mostly to the middle). Many school districts, if they even have a gifted-and-talented program don't start it until later grades, by which point many of these kids have been targeted as being on the ADD/ADHD, just because they are different.

Exactly. I think all most of these kids need is to be challenged in a way that is exciting to them to excel in their mastery of the subject matter, rather than to be graded on how well they stay still in their seats.

Rich
 
There was no such thing as ADD / ADHD when I was a kid. It hadn't been invented yet. But I know that I was bored as hell for most of third-grade math because I'd already memorized the "times tables," but I still had to sit through interminable drills by Mrs. Maresca until the rest of the class understood them.

She could tell my mind was wandering far from the classroom and that I was thinking about anything other than her interminable droning. Sometimes I'd be doodling, other times making paper airplanes, and still other times literally falling asleep. So she'd trigger my RAS by rapping her yardstick on the desk and yelling my first and last names. Once she got my attention, she'd ask me a multiplication question, which I would immediately answer correctly.

It really ****ed her off.

Nowadays I'd probably be diagnosed with ADD and medicated. But the reality is that I was just bored because I already knew the times tables and was tired of listening to them being repeated every day.

Rich
You would think by now that we would have done away with mass production/LCD education.
 
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