Evergreen 747 joins Gulf oil leak response

Steve

Steve

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http://www.wkrg.com/gulf_oil_spill/...rial-dispersants/888170/May-19-2010_10-31-am/

Evergreen's news release

http://www.generalaviationnews.com/...3302e65ca-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email

The Evergreen Supertanker successfully secured its American Society for Testing & Materials (ASTM) Oil Spill Certification last week, and is standing by at Gulfport, Mississippi, prepared to combat the massive oil spill spreading across the Gulf of Mexico.

Built on the utilitarian platform of a Boeing 747, the Evergreen Supertanker was designed to disperse liquid, foam and gels to meet the needs of the mission at hand. Having full certification for fighting fires, Evergreen now has the necessary certification to manage oil spills, according to company officials. With a payload of more than 20,000 gallons and a response time of 600 mph, it has more than eight times the drop capability and twice the speed of other air tankers. The large capacity of the patented pressurized system attacks oil spills by dispersing EPA-approved products for aerial application, and is able to cover an area of more than 200 feet wide and greater than 300 miles in length; equating to more than 7,272 acres of coverage.


current spill info from the local news

http://www.wkrg.com/gulf_oil_spill/

http://www.wlox.com/Global/category.asp?C=186625
 
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I wonder what speed they they use when dropping?

The Air Tractor 802 crop duster usually sprayed at around 150mph - any faster than that and the spray gets caught in the different vortices and looks like a big rooster tail going across the field.

Obviously the 747 isn't running micron-sized dropplets, but they still have to get fairly slow if they want to get the majority of their load in the same area.

Hmmmmmm......
 
How many of these jets are there? I think I saw one a few months ago parked at JFK.
 
CJones said:
I wonder what speed they they use when dropping?

The Air Tractor 802 crop duster usually sprayed at around 150mph - any faster than that and the spray gets caught in the different vortices and looks like a big rooster tail going across the field.

Obviously the 747 isn't running micron-sized dropplets, but they still have to get fairly slow if they want to get the majority of their load in the same area.

Hmmmmmm......
Click to expand...

At 100', landing configuration, what is 1.3 Vso? Add some margin....

EDIT: Looks like 155kt is 1.3 Vso at MLW, with ILS speed of 180kt.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
...able to cover an area of more than 200 feet wide and greater than 300 miles in length; equating to more than 7,272 acres of coverage.

That's a lot of chemtrail...:eek:
 
I did see one of those planes either in NYC or LA a few months back. I remember seeing it and wondering what Evergreen International is, now I know.

As to the dump speed, I'd figure that the 600 mph response time is how quickly it can get to a problem when called upon. Once there, it'd certainly slow down. From the pictures and nose-up attitude, it looks like it's pretty slow. Plus it's definitely not looking for as fine a mist as crop dusting.
 
The Evergreen 747 will join two AF Reserve C-130's out of Ohio in spreading dispersant.

http://www.youngstown.afrc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123203556

(video of the C-130's in operation)

http://www.youngstown.afrc.af.mil/news/video/index.asp?cid=33&sid=13431

And, in a recent news story by CBS/AP

BP conceded Thursday that more oil than it estimated is gushing into the Gulf of Mexico as heavy crude washed into Louisiana's wetlands for the first time, feeding worries and uncertainty about the massive month-long spill.
.
.
.
Independent scientists began forming their own estimates after BP succumbed to pressure to release video footage of the blown-out well. Steve Wereley, a mechanical engineer at Purdue University in Indiana, told The Associated Press that he is sticking with his estimate that 3.9 million gallons a day is spewing from two leaks.

His estimate of the amount leaked to date, which he calls conservative and says has a margin of error of plus or minus 20 percent, is 126 million gallons - or more than 11 times the total leaked from the Exxon Valdez disaster in 1989.

Looks they're going to need that 747.
 
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evergreen also does cargo work, that is probably the 747 that you saw at NYC or LA
 
As of yesterday, the Evergreen 747 was not known to hold a contract, although it has visited the area. The aircraft has to fly a minimum of 145 kts to get the required 500 micron size droplet. Test conducted on the aircraft in March at USDA/College Station demonstrated an average medium droplet size of 519 microns at 140 kts. The 747 has a patented drop tube from where the dispersal flows.

As for a chem-trail, it's a surfactant (soap) that is being used (Corexit). As harmless as soap, unless you stick your head in a barrel of it. Then, you'd drown first (just a little humor). Ag-aircraft's ideal spray speed is 140-150 mph. The tanker's place is in the wide open Gulf. The reality is the surface oil getting near shore is probably best controlled by the ag-aircraft with strategic, targeted applications. May 18 the first load with an ag-plane (AT-802) was dispersed. To follow the role of the ag-plane in this saga, visit www.agairupdate.com. Cheers :smile:
 
AgAir Update said:
As of yesterday, the Evergreen 747 was not known to hold a contract, although it has visited the area. The aircraft has to fly a minimum of 145 kts to get the required 500 micron size droplet. Test conducted on the aircraft in March at USDA/College Station demonstrated an average medium droplet size of 519 microns at 140 kts. The 747 has a patented drop tube from where the dispersal flows.

As for a chem-trail, it's a surfactant (soap) that is being used (Corexit). As harmless as soap, unless you stick your head in a barrel of it. Then, you'd drown first (just a little humor). Ag-aircraft's ideal spray speed is 140-150 mph. The tanker's place is in the wide open Gulf. The reality is the surface oil getting near shore is probably best controlled by the ag-aircraft with strategic, targeted applications. May 18 the first load with an ag-plane (AT-802) was dispersed. To follow the role of the ag-plane in this saga, visit www.agairupdate.com. Cheers :smile:
Click to expand...

Interesting. Any idea what swath width the 747 uses when it 'sprays'? Is there any effort to control the spray with any type of nozzle system, or is it just an open end of a big hose and the air 'disperses' it? I'm somewhat surprised they actually have a target droplet size - I assumed it was just a big 'drop and go' setup.
 
The 747 has a single, open-ended dispersal drop hose. However, the flow rate is meticulously controlled.

Droplet size is critical. Too small and the application could drift off target, how far depends on the wind and Wx conditions such as thermal activity, inversion layer, etc. I don't know the swath width of the 747. It was tested by the USDA over a 310-foot wide test area. I assume USDA thought the swath would be less than 310 feet. The paper didn't say if it was more or less. The AT-802 is making a 90-foot swath for this particular project. It does have nozzles arranged on a boom system with spacing that has been tested to evenly distribute the product over a 90-foot wide area. The 747 has also had its swath evaluated and USDA reported the swath was acceptable.

To be honest, I am in a gray area having no personal experience with the 747, only the reports I have read from the USDA and my 35 years of personal experience in ag-aviation.

I'm not sure how to attach a pdf to this forum. See if the following link will download the pdf about the 747:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Use of Evergreen Aviation Supertanker for Oil Dispersant Applications[/FONT]
 
CJones said:
Interesting. Any idea what swath width the 747 uses when it 'sprays'?
Click to expand...

I would say it's a tad over 200 feet wide:

Steve said:
The large capacity of the patented pressurized system attacks oil spills by dispersing EPA-approved products for aerial application, and is able to cover an area of more than 200 feet wide and greater than 300 miles in length; equating to more than 7,272 acres of coverage.
Click to expand...
 
Joe B said:
I would say it's a tad over 200 feet wide:
Click to expand...

I saw that but didn't think it was for a single pass. It seemed like a LOT of water/stuff.

Then I did the math, and it actually works ona 747! :yikes:

After reading the link that AgAir Update posted, it looks like they're aiming for a 2-10gpa (which is a HUGE margin by todays spraying standards). So at 10gpa x 7,272 acres = 72,720 gal x 8 lb/gal (assume water weight) = 581,760 lb payload. Considering they aren't going across the globe, they can drop the fuel to make that feasible.

Wow wow wow... I have worked with AT-802's, and I thought THOSE guys could haul a lot of stuff (300 gal fuel + 800 gal H20/chemical). I think doing 2 gal/acre work, he could do 100'+ swath. But carrying 72,000+ gal water and doing a 200' swath @ 10gpa ... Awesome.
 
I really hate to show my ignorance and ask this question, "How do you attach the U.S. map with landing states to your posts?" - Thx
 
I find it interesting that if I have a fuel spill, I am banned from using dispersant on it, to the tune of minimum fine of $10,000. I don't understand why they don't have several tankers (plenty layed up)with deck pumps and skimmers collecting the oil for refining. There's nothing wrong with the oil.
 
Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, Mac CPUs don't have "right clicks". I'll look for some local help.
 
I worked for Evergreen briefly during my freshman year of college. I knew the sons of the owner, Del Smith, having gone to high school with them.

I did a number of odd jobs in the short time I was there, but one of the most educational for me, as an 18 year old planning on a business career and also interested in aviation, was being tasked with doing an inventory of all of their office furniture. That job which on its face sounds incredibly boring, took months, as they had many buildings scattered around the town.

That "boring" job actually ended up putting me in every single room of the headquarters buildings, and I ended up talking to just about everyone from the janitors to the A&P's, pilots, and senior executives. Everyone seemed to be eager to take a break and talk to the young, earnest kid counting chairs and desks for a few minutes.

I asked a lot of questions during conversations, even of the senior executives, and was amazed first at the fact that I wasn't told to shut up, and then by the honest and candid responses I was given to questions that were actually pretty sensitive.

People throughout the organization told me lots of things I never should really have been told, given the circumstances. The loose lips people had was quite surprising to me, and something I have never forgotten to this day. I learned about a lot of skeletons in closets, confidential financial information, confidential projects, and the like. I kept the information I learned to myself, but if I weren't so inclined, it could have been damaging.

That odd job taught me more in 6 months than I ever learned in college.

20 years ago, Evergreen did a lot of work that wasn't printed in the newspapers. They were pretty innovative back then as well.
 
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Last month, I was in McMinnville, Oregon conducting an evaluation flight of a Cessna Ag-Husky that had been converted to a Soloy Turbine Pac (Rolls Royce 420 shp turbine, see July 2010 AAU). After the flight test, I visited the Evergreen museum and space center. It is a high-end place, comparable to the Smithsonian. The main part of the museum was dedicated to Del Smith's son, Michael, who was a very interesting person and the obvious choice to succeed Smith. Michael is portrayed as a very highly skilled pilot, flying fighter aircraft and most anything else. Unfortunately, he lost his life in a car accident with his brother, Mark who survived.

The Spruce Goose is housed in the museum with a glass front, to give you an idea of the building's magnitude. If you are in the area, do take the time to visit it. As Axe commented, Evergreen is a very diverse, international company. You can't help but learn something about aviation at the museum. BTW, the wine tasting bar isn't bad, nor the wine I bought with the Spruce Goose on the label!
 
AgAir Update said:
Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, Mac CPUs don't have "right clicks". I'll look for some local help.
Click to expand...

Sure they do. Some mouses don't though... like the trackpads. Hold the "control" button and click, and it will be a right click.

Or, just drag the picture to the desktop.
 
The Spruce Goose sat disassembled for a number of years during one of the periodic lean times for Evergreen, after they had acquired the Spruce Goose but before they had funding for the museum.

The protective plastic film covering on the greenhouse type structures over the airplane parts deteriorated after a short time and the airplane sat exposed to the not-insubstantial Willamette Valley rain for quite a while, a few years if I remember correctly.

I was a police officer in that area back then. My dog and I trained to become a canine team and a lot of the training was conducted on Evergreen property around the Spruce Goose. We hid behind and under parts of the airplane while training in area searches and tracking. As neat as it was to be so close to an icon in those circumstances, it was incredibly sad to see that historic airplane sitting there exposed to the elements with no immediate rescue in sight. I was glad to see the museum break ground.

The museum is very nice and well worth the time. The collection is impressive.

Smith owned one of the largest private firearms collections at one time as well. It was incredible, according to a couple of people I know who got to see it.

Evergreen has a large agricultural business. 20 years ago I was told they were the largest hazelnut producer in the US. Now they do wines and Christmas trees as well.

Del Smith is a rags to riches story. He started business with one mortgaged helicopter in the early 1950's. and has done very well for himself since. The public story of how Evergreen grew is extremely compelling, and a lot of intrigue and interesting facts are left out of that.
 
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Thanks Wild Wobby. I figured it out with your suggestion.
 
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