Ever Put 100LL in Your Car?

Have you ever put 100LL in your car?


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rachelk.tailwinds

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It would be a silly thing to do, considering how much more expensive av fuel is but I'm wondering if anyone's tried it. If you have, did you actually hear knocking?
 
1. Bye bye catalytic converter.

2. Your plugs will foul. Quickly.

3. Why would you expect to hear knocking?
 
Done it with old cars, would not be a good idea with newer cars as Sac pointed out.
 
Nope.....just stupid.

Maybe in a generator or lawnmower....with a briggs like engine, but nothing with a catalytic core.
 
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1. Bye bye catalytic converter.

2. Your plugs will foul. Quickly.

3. Why would you expect to hear knocking?
Haha what about just a gallon in an old beater car? I'm sure someone's tried it. Right???

I thought the lead in in would cause an automotive engine (with a catalytic converter) to per-detonate, which causes the knocking sound. But, could just be an urban legend, I don't know.
 
Oh, also most automotive oils (particularly full synthetic) do not cleanse lead well.
 
It would be a silly thing to do, considering how much more expensive av fuel is but I'm wondering if anyone's tried it. If you have, did you actually hear knocking?

I have seen people routinely use it in their motorbikes.
I have seen people (mechanics :)) use it in their oldie car (maybe no cat-converter?) because it ends up being cheaper for them, I presume.
This is just a first hand anecdotal statement, no idea what the overall stats are.
 
Haha what about just a gallon in an old beater car? I'm sure someone's tried it. Right???

I thought the lead in in would cause an automotive engine (with a catalytic converter) to per-detonate, which causes the knocking sound. But, could just be an urban legend, I don't know.

Other way around.

Lead reduces knocking.
 
Yes, in older vehicles that do not have electronic controlled fuel injection, or catalytic converters, or o2 sensors....

I mean no, of course not. It would be illegal to run leaded fuel in your vehicle.... :lol:

Tetraethyl lead was a cheap way to reduce the knock, or pre-ignition in engines before computer controlled ignition systems.
 
Haha what about just a gallon in an old beater car? I'm sure someone's tried it. Right???

I thought the lead in in would cause an automotive engine (with a catalytic converter) to per-detonate, which causes the knocking sound. But, could just be an urban legend, I don't know.

All right.

The answer is no - lead will plug your catalytic converter media rendering it ineffective. There is occasionally a popping sound heard on deceleration caused by the introduction of unburned gasoline in to the exhaust due to a temporarily rich condition in some vehicles, but a functional cat will aggravate the problem, if anything.
 
Haha what about just a gallon in an old beater car? I'm sure someone's tried it. Right???

I thought the lead in in would cause an automotive engine (with a catalytic converter) to per-detonate, which causes the knocking sound. But, could just be an urban legend, I don't know.

It's sometimes used as a racing fuel.

"Low lead" is not unleaded, and there is a very obvious sulfur smell you get when someone tries to use leaded gasoline with a catalyst. You would know it.

There is no benefit AT ALL to use 100 octane fuel in a car that runs at 91 or lower.
 
Oh! Why is it so bad for catalytic converters then?

Lead deposits gunk up stuff, cats almost look like a honey comb filter of platinum and a few other fancy metals. If they get covered in deposits they won't convert gasses very well anymore.
 
Not that uncommon to be used in vintage cars with high compression engines. My 65 vette needs a little more octane than pump gas. It will run-on after shutdown and sometimes knock on hot days at lower RPM on pump gas. I have a case of TEL which I use at fill up, which works great. I use just enough TEL to eliminate the run-on and knock. Mixing pump gas with some 100LL would have the same affect.
 
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Lead deposits gunk up stuff, cats almost look like a honey comb filter of platinum and a few other fancy metals. If they get covered in deposits they won't convert gasses very well anymore.
yup....all pluggied up and no power....ain't good. :no:
 
It's sometimes used as a racing fuel.

"Low lead" is not unleaded, and there is a very obvious sulfur smell you get when someone tries to use leaded gasoline with a catalyst. You would know it.

There is no benefit AT ALL to use 100 octane fuel in a car that runs at 91 or lower.

Not only is there no benefit, you lose power and efficiency. The optimum octane to use for a given engine is the lowest that will run without knocking. Racing engines have modifications such as increased compression and advanced timing, necessitating a higher octane fuel.
 
It's sometimes used as a racing fuel.

"Low lead" is not unleaded, and there is a very obvious sulfur smell you get when someone tries to use leaded gasoline with a catalyst. You would know it.

There is no benefit AT ALL to use 100 octane fuel in a car that runs at 91 or lower.

For what kind of racing? Just curious if you've ever actually seen people fill up their tank with it.
 
Cars are a bad idea.

But 100LL does have a place in seldom used small engines that sit for long periods of time. A generator is a good example.
 
I believe there is a tug that uses 100LL gas, just to make it convenient to fill it up.
 
It's sometimes used as a racing fuel. ...
Yup. I raced with 100LL for years. Main reason was that I felt I was getting better fuel quality control. Another nice benefit is that it evaporates completely, leaving no oily residue. This is handy when using it as a cleaning fluid. For example, if someone were foolish enough to soak some Oil-Dri with 100LL and brush it back and forth over oil stains on a concrete floor, that someone would end up with a nice clean floor.

I also have the tank of my seldom-used home standby generator filled with 100LL on the theory that it is formulated to be stored longer than standard pump gas.

Great stuff, that 100LL.
 
Yup. I raced with 100LL for years. Main reason was that I felt I was getting better fuel quality control. Another nice benefit is that it evaporates completely, leaving no oily residue. This is handy when using it as a cleaning fluid. For example, if someone were foolish enough to soak some Oil-Dri with 100LL and brush it back and forth over oil stains on a concrete floor, that someone would end up with a nice clean floor.

I also have the tank of my seldom-used home standby generator filled with 100LL on the theory that it is formulated to be stored longer than standard pump gas.

Great stuff, that 100LL.

What did you race?
 
For what kind of racing? Just curious if you've ever actually seen people fill up their tank with it.

It would be useful in a car or motorcycle with a modified high compression engine that does not have any emissions stuff.

For example I could take an old 2 stroke dirt bike, have the head milled to increase compression, run 100LL in it and get a lot more HP. It would detonate or "knock" with a pump 93 octane fuel.

If I knew 100LL existed in my racing days I might have used it.
 
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Ran it in my airplane tug (dumped sump drain fuel in tank). Used it in lawnmower as well.

Never a problem.

Back years ago I know people that ran it in cars and tractors, but back then we had 80 octane.
 
I've done it once to limp myself to a gas station and top my tank off, didn't hurt anything.

I run it full time in my lawn equipment.
 
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I used avgas (don't remember if it was 100ll back then) occasionally in my '66 Plymouth Valiant with a slant six engine. I blew the engine. Damn thing didn't even make 300,000 miles.
 
One time I called for a fill-up on a Cessna. The line guy drove up in his fuel truck and topped my tanks. On his way back, his truck stalled. After a few restart attempts, he got out, opened up his fuel cap and peeked inside. I asked if he was OK and he said he ran it out of gas. A few dribbles of 100LL and he was back on his way.
 
100 octane aviation fuel is not rated the same as fuel for cars. The aviation fuel uses a performance type octane rating system (remember red, green and purple aviation fuels?) while cars use the old R+M divided by 2, that is Research method of rating octane plus the Motor method of rating octane, then divide that answer by 2 to get the octane rating. Total and complete different octane ratings. Using the R+M divided by 2 method gives 100LL somewhere around (IIRC) 80-85 octane rating.

I never used 100LL in my race cars because aviation fuel is made for low compression motors running usually running less than 3000 RPM consistently, no on then off throttle movements like a race motor. My race engines had considerably more than 8.1 compression ratios and ran 8 to 10K RPM anywhere from 10 to 40 seconds, then totally off the throttle, feather.... then back to WOT, from 50 to 250 laps on 1/4 mile to 1.5 mile tracks. The race fuel I used was made for that application.

Now with that said, yes, we ran 100LL (sumped from filters and planes) in airplane tugs for years without problems, plus lawn mowers, tractors and other small engines. At the local airport the 100LL truck has run on 100LL for years, but it was made in 1973 and never goes more than 10MPH.
 
I'm with Airdale. Ran it all season fors sports car racing, once ambient temps got above 80F. Completely stopped vapor lock, a known problem with these. Mazda 12A rotary engine, worked 4-bbl carb, all sorts of little tweaks. Crazy loud inside due to solid engine mounts and exhaust mounts, but not bad from the outside. Fun car!
Also, in the lawnmower. Lasted longer, smelled great, made mowing the lawn more fun!
 

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I use it in our boat when the local station runs out of ethanol-free premium, which they sometimes do during peak boating season. Yes 100LL is expensive and plugs need to be cleaned occasionally, but I'm not about to put ethanol in the fiberglass fuel tanks. I also use 100LL in my lawnmowers, tiller, etc when i store them away for the winter.
 
My nephew uses it mixed with alcohol, racing circle track. He is running 13 to 1 Pistons. Seems like he uses close to one gallon a minute.

Methanol has a stoich closer to 6:1-5:1, you need a lot of it.
 
I'm with Airdale. Ran it all season fors sports car racing, once ambient temps got above 80F. Completely stopped vapor lock, a known problem with these. Mazda 12A rotary engine, worked 4-bbl carb, all sorts of little tweaks. Crazy loud inside due to solid engine mounts and exhaust mounts, but not bad from the outside. Fun car!
Also, in the lawnmower. Lasted longer, smelled great, made mowing the lawn more fun!


Stops vapor lock? How does that happen??

Also, do you still race with NASA? If you're ever out at High Plains or Pueblo Motorsports Park, I will have to keep my eye out for you!
 
Yep. 1995 Dodge Dakota. A few times, I was running too low on fuel to make it back to the city after flying. Drove the truck up to the self serve pump and filled her up.

Ran smoother than on gasoline.
 
Stops vapor lock? How does that happen??

Also, do you still race with NASA? If you're ever out at High Plains or Pueblo Motorsports Park, I will have to keep my eye out for you!

You want some fun? Come on our to either Calhan's Race Track or Fort Morgan to see us get down and dirty in our Dwarf Cars.

That's a good time right there. I'll even give you a ride around the pits if you're interested.
 
Years ago racers would stop by our airport and buy a few gallons just about every week. I think they were stock car racers but could have been draggers too.
 
Yes, in a modified car with a high compression engine and no catalytic converter. Right after leaded gas got phased out, 93 octane was hard to find in some areas. I can recall stopping at an airport to fill up. It gave me the octane the engine required.
 
100 octane aviation fuel is not rated the same as fuel for cars. The aviation fuel uses a performance type octane rating system (remember red, green and purple aviation fuels?) while cars use the old R+M divided by 2, that is Research method of rating octane plus the Motor method of rating octane, then divide that answer by 2 to get the octane rating. Total and complete different octane ratings. Using the R+M divided by 2 method gives 100LL somewhere around (IIRC) 80-85 octane rating.

I never used 100LL in my race cars because aviation fuel is made for low compression motors running usually running less than 3000 RPM consistently, no on then off throttle movements like a race motor. My race engines had considerably more than 8.1 compression ratios and ran 8 to 10K RPM anywhere from 10 to 40 seconds, then totally off the throttle, feather.... then back to WOT, from 50 to 250 laps on 1/4 mile to 1.5 mile tracks. The race fuel I used was made for that application.

Now with that said, yes, we ran 100LL (sumped from filters and planes) in airplane tugs for years without problems, plus lawn mowers, tractors and other small engines. At the local airport the 100LL truck has run on 100LL for years, but it was made in 1973 and never goes more than 10MPH.

This is backwards. Aviation fuel octane uses the "Motor" octane number, which is typically lower than the "Research" octane rating. And only by ~10 points or so, not 30+. Auto gas averages research and motor values in the US (in Europe, they just use the research number).

I think you're confusing the "lean" and "rich" numbers used in aviation, which do differ by 30 points. Lean = Motor. Rich uses a modified mixture.

Aviation fuels are designed for low RPM, high torque applications, which is a good recipe for detonation. A 230 HP automotive engine that makes that power at 6000 RPM will have a much easier time than an O-540 that makes it at 2500.
 
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