Ever play the scratch off lotto's?

RyanB

RyanB

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Once and a while when I'm at the pump ill go inside and get a scratch off lotto ticket. What a racket those things are, usually if I actually strike gold and win its a free ticket or a dollar or two. Anyone ever buy these?
 
Ryanb said:
Once and a while when I'm at the pump ill go inside and get a scratch off lotto ticket. What a racket those things are, usually if I actually strike gold and win its a free ticket or a dollar or two. Anyone ever buy these?
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NOT me.....:no::no::nonod::nonod:...

I am too cheap....:D
 
Nope. I pay no optional taxes. The only gambling I do is at the poker table. The math doesn't work out on anything else.
 
I did about the time I turned 18 and was legal.

I see older people in there all the time spending a lot of money on those things.
Makes me a little sad for them.

I guess they get those moments of hope.
 
Years ago, when they first started up in Texas a guy I worked with had a fool proof plan to get rich. He bought 250 scratch ticket things, spent every cent of his paycheck. Next week I asked him how much he won and it was only 50 bucks.

Not a good ROI.

Myself, I don't waste my time or money.
 
A few dollars for some hope and dreams can be a nice thing at times. Worse ways to spend money. Of course, many better ways, too :)
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I did about the time I turned 18 and was legal.

I see older people in there all the time spending a lot of money on those things.
Makes me a little sad for them.

I guess they get those moments of hope.
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I was on a flight from Baltimore to New York once and sat next to an older couple. Probably in their 70's. Once we got in the air, the gentleman pulled out probably two dozen scratch offs and spent some time going through them slowly and meticulously. When he finished the last one his wife asked "How much?" he replied "Only 3500" with a little smirk.

Now maybe he's not the average bear or maybe old people know something we don't.
 
I worked with a guy who used to buy them. He would stick the losers on a bulletin board. One day we took a couple down and used one to "adjust" the other and put it back up.

And asked him why he put a big winner on the board.

It was hilarious. A rotten thing to do, but hilarious non the less.
 
I used to go to a barbershop that was wallpapered in losing scratchers.
 
Ryanb said:
Once and a while when I'm at the pump ill go inside and get a scratch off lotto ticket. What a racket those things are, usually if I actually strike gold and win its a free ticket or a dollar or two. Anyone ever buy these?
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Nah, I'll spend a buck or two on a Powerball or Mega Millions when the pots get big, otherwise the gambe isn't justifiable. When old Phil was teaching me gambling and handicapping horses he always said, "If you're gonna gamble on a long shot, bet on a real long shot and put a minimum bet to win on it, otherwise do your work like I taught you and stick to show bets and bet big, you make a consistent 30%." One time I told him I found a trifecta, "No you didn't, you can't. If you like it, throw $3 at it, no more." Sucker paid $16,xxx.:D "****, I should have put $100 on that."
 
They make a great cheap gift,you can give a gift that gives people hope of a large winner. Usually you give the tickets to someone who wouldn't buy one for themselves.
 
I'll grab a scratch off once in a blue moon when the wife and I are on a road trip or something. I'm paying for the entertainment, just like you do with any gambling - I don't care what the "odds" are. You're paying for time, period.
 
I used to buy the $20 scratch offs. They would pay out a lot more often. I would say I mostly broke even, but won $100 a few times with them.
 
Guy I work with won $5000. A week for life scratch off. Every December the SOB gets a check for 170k after taxes. Not bad for a 30 year old, not married, no kids, and has a good payng job.
 
Glad to hear im not the only one who plays these. Once in a while they can be kinda fun.
 
No, I passed statistics in college.
 
I may buy one every 3-4 months. I've bought maybe 100 of them in the last 25 years. I won $1,000 once 25 years ago, back when that was some money. I've won $200 a few times. Other than that, half the time I win the amt I paid for the ticket and the other half are losers.
 
My brother in law says they are a tax on people that failed math. My wife buys them I do not.
 
bflynn said:
No, I passed statistics in college.
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My favorite capstone of stats class was teaching the odds on Lotto. Once in a rare while, I'd have a student argue about the combinatorial used to calculate it. Mostly it was the poorest student in class. I didn't do the CA Lotto any favors.:)
 
One thing I've always found interesting is when someone says they'll only buy a ticket when it reaches x number of million dollars. Lotteries have a base payout. I don't know what Powerball is, what, $20M? $50M? Even the state lottery base is probably $5M. Your odds of winning don't change because of the size of the jackpot, and $20M is still enough to change your life (well, for most of us). So it's just kind of interesting to me.

I'm in a PB pool at work and throw a buck a week into it. In 25 years we've never done anything and to be honest I just kind of trust that the lady who buys the tickets actually does. But it is a fun conversation piece every now and then, what we'd do if we won. I've always said I'd sponsor some lucky teenage bastard's endeavor to get his degree/time/ratings to fly for a living.

I've also said that I'd have both of my kids pick one person who they think deserves a free ride through college. And then have them both pick one person who least deserves it.
 
ron22 said:
My brother in law says they are a tax on people that failed math. My wife buys them I do not.
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It's not about failing math, we all know the likely hood of winning is just a hair short of impossible and nobody expects to win no matter how much they hope, it's more a statement to still hope for the impossible in the face of adversity. It's a statement to the resiliency of the human spirit that people believe they have a chance at something better. Most people realize that no matter how hard they work, they will never make that kind of money because in order to, you have to **** over a whole lot of people, and most don't have it in them.

It as easy to say that people who don't play the lottery have lost hope and are no more than soulless zombies.
 
They are a tax on the poor and the ignorant. Sad, actually.
 
Gerhardt said:
One thing I've always found interesting is when someone says they'll only buy a ticket when it reaches x number of million dollars. Lotteries have a base payout. I don't know what Powerball is, what, $20M? $50M? Even the state lottery base is probably $5M. Your odds of winning don't change because of the size of the jackpot, and $20M is still enough to change your life (well, for most of us). So it's just kind of interesting to me.
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For statistics nerds who are willing to play, its about expected value (EV) of the bet. Even money (2-for-1) on a fair coin toss (50% chance) is a fair bet; 5/1 payout on a fair coin toss is a great bet; 3-for-2 or 6-for-5 on that same toss is a lousy bet. The top prize of powerball is about 180MM-to-one against. If the lottery is only offering $20MM, its a bad bet. When the top prize crests $150 MM, I start to notice.

Also, some people underestimate how much money it will take to "change their life". If the advertised prize is $20 MM, that is the total of annual payments over 35-40 years. The cash value for immediate payout is just over half of that, about $11MM. Give another 40% away to taxes, you're left with $6.5 MM of the 20. Start buying expensive cars and houses, things that have large ongoing upkeep (like maintenance staff and $25k property tax bills), and $6.5 MM will go pretty quick. Take a few private planes to Vegas and live the high life for a year or two; 'invest' in friends, family and strangers' business ventures, it will be gone even quicker.

Conversely, conservatively invested, and following conventional wisdom not to draw more than 4% per year, one can pull ~$250k/year off of $6.5MM forever, live very comfortably, keep up with 2-3% inflation, and leave a nice pile when they go. That income is quite good, and certainly top 5-10% in the country, but not Forbes 400 by any stretch.

Gerhardt said:
But it is a fun conversation piece every now and then, what we'd do if we won.
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In the end, that's exactly what the lottery is selling.
 
DJTorrente said:
... In the end, that's exactly what the lottery is selling.
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I don't think so. They are selling fun to the very few who understand the futility of the exercise, but they are selling hope to the many who are hopeless.

Depending on what study you read, 20-35% of lottery ticket buyers actually believe that the lottery is a viable strategy to fund their retirement. That's what is so sad.

It's a free country and I wouldn't attempt to bar people from buying, but is it really necessary for cynical politicians to exploit their constituents in this way? I would be ashamed.
 
DJ, what you said is true. But for all practical purposes it only matters if you're buying tickets in super-huge quantities. If the jackpot is in the 10s of millions and you're buying just a few tickets, the payout:odds ratio doesn't really make a difference.


airdale said:
It's a free country and I wouldn't attempt to bar people from buying, but is it really necessary for cynical politicians to exploit their constituents in this way? I would be ashamed.
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They should be. I wouldn't want to bar people from buying. I would bar the government from selling.
 
Gerhardt said:
... [If] you're buying just a few tickets, the payout:odds ratio doesn't really make a difference. ...
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When our state lottery was inaugerated, the local PBS radio station interviewed a Berkeldy statistics professor about the odds. What he said was:

"Your odds of winning are about the same whether you buy a ticket or not."
 
airdale said:
When our state lottery was inaugerated, the local PBS radio station interviewed a Berkeldy statistics professor about the odds. What he said was:

"Your odds of winning are about the same whether you buy a ticket or not."
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Every now and then I joke about playing the lottery for free. I just pick my numbers and write them down. It saves a dollar and only reduces my chance of winning by a miniscule amount.
 
Gerhardt said:
DJ, what you said is true. But for all practical purposes it only matters if you're buying tickets in super-huge quantities. If the jackpot is in the 10s of millions and you're buying just a few tickets, the payout:odds ratio doesn't really make a difference.


They should be. I wouldn't want to bar people from buying. I would bar the government from selling.
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Yup. I'm all for Lotto of any kind, but state/local/fed govt should be barred from participating.

BTW, the odds are independent of payout no matter the number of tickets you buy. If I understand Lotto correctly today, there is only one permutation that wins?

odds = desired outcome(win)/ undesired outcome(losers)

Where the desired outcome is to 'hit' the lotto, and the undesired outcome is all the other possible combo/permutations. The only way it works perfectly is if you buy out the lotto, meaning you buy ever possible combination/permutation(dependent on how the lotto is structured) of tickets, at least one of them will be the desired outcome.
 
I think it's weird how people are so down on this form of entertainment. It's better than spending that $1 on a candy bar. Heck, buy a week's worth of lotto tickets and you can spend all week on the car drive to work day dreaming about it. Of course the odds are near zero, but they are actually zero if you don't play.

I do agree there are some that don't get it, but it doesn't mean if you understand it, you don't do it. It's entertainment and it's a purely optional tax -- the best kind! :)
 
I'm 'down' on it because it doesn't represent the idealized form of a tax system in a republic. I don't care if people go to Vegas and spend their mortgage money to the last nickel. Fine with me, but subsidizing everything and anything which allows poor people to play lotto with MY tax money pizzes me off, and you can't take that to the bank.
 
docmirror said:
Yup. I'm all for Lotto of any kind, but state/local/fed govt should be barred from participating.

BTW, the odds are independent of payout no matter the number of tickets you buy. If I understand Lotto correctly today, there is only one permutation that wins?

odds = desired outcome(win)/ undesired outcome(losers)

Where the desired outcome is to 'hit' the lotto, and the undesired outcome is all the other possible combo/permutations. The only way it works perfectly is if you buy out the lotto, meaning you buy ever possible combination/permutation(dependent on how the lotto is structured) of tickets, at least one of them will be the desired outcome.
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Strictly speaking, the term is combination, not permutation -- the difference being in a combination it does not matter in which order the winning numbers are drawn. But that's a nit.

There are also the consolation prizes in most lotteries (like powerball). In powerball the expected value of the consolation prizes alone is about $0.32. That means about $0.32 of every $2 entry is spent paying consolation prizes. Powerball also has a 'bonus' prize multiplier that you can buy for $1 per line. If you take the 'bonus' bet, and if you win a consolation prize, its multiplied 2-5x depending on the multiplier drawn (heavily weighted towards 2x). I've taken a stab at estimating the EV of that play; I think it's about $0.63/$1.
 
DJTorrente said:
Strictly speaking, the term is combination, not permutation -- the difference being in a combination it does not matter in which order the winning numbers are drawn. But that's a nit.
.
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As you can tell, I really don't play lotto. I thought it was permutated(order dependent). I used to see the lotto spot on TV out in CA long ago, and the balls were being blown around in the big jar, then they came out, and then the extra special ball at the end, but it's been decades. Led me to believe it was not a combo.
 
I don't play the Lotto because for me, it's not fun to spend money on something that's nearly certain to make me feel disappointed; not only that, but a disappointed loser!

As for entertainment, I would compare it to buying tickets to movies that get one-star reviews, except I think one-star movies are probably more entertaining.

For people who like to gamble, I think the stock market has more entertainment value, plus a long term return on investment in the aggregate.
 
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