Ercoupes, anyone?

Eagle I

Eagle I

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Kat
OK, this is probably insane, but I've started thinking about plane ownership. Why is it insane? Well, for one thing, I've been told that my job of 26 years will be terminated in February. Anyone need a good editor? Oh, never mind.

OK, back to the plane. I'm a sport pilot, currently renting a Flight Design CTLS. I love that plane, but let's face it, unless I win the lottery, I could never afford even a used one, or its lesser-priced cousin, the CTSW. So I started thinking about ... Ercoupes. Although I've never flown one, or even sat in one, I think they're adorable, and they would seem to suit my mission, which is mostly local VFR sightseeing flights. Also, the price seems right -- looks like I could get a decent one for $20,000 to $30,000.

So, does anyone out there own one of these? Or ever flown one of these? Any advice?
 
I've flown three of them. They are underpowered, but so is everything else in that category.

If I was in your place, and shopping for something LSA and vintage I would go with the Taylorcraft BC-65, or BC-12D. But - not a lot better than the Ercoupe. Make sure you get one that is truly LSA compliant, not all models are the right weight. I believe the 415C and 415CD are the only ones that meet the weight restriction.

Don't bother with rudders, they just add weight, it flies fine without them. Keep weight as low as you can. Have the center section inspected very carefully. A few years ago two guys died when the plane broke up in the air due to corrosion in the center section. Have it inspected by a Ercoupe specialist. Price sounds about right for an LSA version.
 
docmirror said:
I've flown three of them. They are underpowered, but so is everything else in that category.

If I was in your place, and shopping for something LSA and vintage I would go with the Taylorcraft BC-65, or BC-12D. But - not a lot better than the Ercoupe. Make sure you get one that is truly LSA compliant, not all models are the right weight. I believe the 415C and 415CD are the only ones that meet the weight restriction.

Don't bother with rudders, they just add weight, it flies fine without them. Keep weight as low as you can. Have the center section inspected very carefully. A few years ago two guys died when the plane broke up in the air due to corrosion in the center section. Have it inspected by a Ercoupe specialist. Price sounds about right for an LSA version.
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Thanks. The Taylorcraft are all tailwheel, though, right? Not that I would rule out getting a tailwheel endorsement at some point. And I think the Ercoupe 415C is the only LSA compliant version. And even if I were to find one, I wonder where I would find a CFI who could instruct me in how to fly them.
 
Eagle I said:
I'm no airplane expert, but just looking at it, I think I need a cigarette. And i don't even smoke!:D
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I know that is one sweet airplane. This person is giving this airplane away. I want it but enjoy being married. If I told the wife, Honey I want another airplane, or I found to sweet of a deal to pass up, she would walk out or kick my butt out.
 
1600vw said:
I know that is one sweet airplane. This person is giving this airplane away. I want it but enjoy being married. If I told the wife, Honey I want another airplane, or I found to sweet of a deal to pass up, she would walk out or kick my butt out.
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Hey, there's no harm in dreaming, right?:)
 
1600vw said:
Check out this sweet ercoupe. 13,000 for it.

http://springfield.craigslist.org/for/4709965395.html
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If it passes the center section inspection it's a great deal. Putting the wings on is a quick and easy job. I bet it is very light as well. The wings look metalized maybe, hard to tell but it looks like a rivet row. That'll add some weight back.

<edit: I just noticed that this plane has the C85 engine which no longer makes it a 415-C or 415-CD. So - technically it is no longer a LSA plane, although it would be pretty rare for anyone to make a stink about it. >
 
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Eagle I said:
Thanks. The Taylorcraft are all tailwheel, though, right? Not that I would rule out getting a tailwheel endorsement at some point. And I think the Ercoupe 415C is the only LSA compliant version. And even if I were to find one, I wonder where I would find a CFI who could instruct me in how to fly them.
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Yes, T-craft are all TW planes. I don't know the rules that well, but if you have a SP license, I believe you can get in the Ercoupe and fly away. No instruction required although a check out with a CFI would be a good plan.
 
Eagle I said:
I'm no airplane expert, but just looking at it, I think I need a cigarette. And i don't even smoke!:D
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I'm no airplane expert either, but "just needs a few small things" is car-speak for "this POS is never going to move under it's own power." If it was that easy, the owner would have done it.
 
MAKG1 said:
I'm no airplane expert either, but "just needs a few small things" is car-speak for "this POS is never going to move under it's own power." If it was that easy, the owner would have done it.
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:rofl: Good point!
 
MAKG1 said:
I'm no airplane expert either, but "just needs a few small things" is car-speak for "this POS is never going to move under it's own power." If it was that easy, the owner would have done it.
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I may be a pessimist but I tend to agree....Caveat emptor :dunno:
 
I'd get a champ or a luscombe, but if you want a ercoupe the one I flew was a rag wing, sweet plane but I'd want the rudder pedal kit.
 
The one I trained in had the pedals. Very easy airplane to fly.
 
All models are not LSA eligible,find a mechanic that knows the airplanes,need a good check for corrosion, The ercoupes are a fun easy flying airplane,no need for the rudder package.
 
1600vw said:
Check out this sweet ercoupe. 13,000 for it.

http://springfield.craigslist.org/for/4709965395.html
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The only issue I see with this plane is, it is a certified airplane. So, was all this restoration work signed off by a legitimate A&P with IA? If not, it's just a collection of parts. At least that's my understanding. It may be very costly to get an IA to sign off on this work done by others. It would likely require extensive dis-assembly.
 
Eagle I said:
OK, this is probably insane, but I've started thinking about plane ownership. Why is it insane? Well, for one thing, I've been told that my job of 26 years will be terminated in February. Anyone need a good editor? Oh, never mind.

OK, back to the plane. I'm a sport pilot, currently renting a Flight Design CTLS. I love that plane, but let's face it, unless I win the lottery, I could never afford even a used one, or its lesser-priced cousin, the CTSW. So I started thinking about ... Ercoupes. Although I've never flown one, or even sat in one, I think they're adorable, and they would seem to suit my mission, which is mostly local VFR sightseeing flights. Also, the price seems right -- looks like I could get a decent one for $20,000 to $30,000.

So, does anyone out there own one of these? Or ever flown one of these? Any advice?
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I say go for it. Many years ago I trained a monocular pilot in an Ercoupe and I have flown with paraplegics in Ercoupes. If it fits your mission and the price is right, what's not to lile?

Bob Gardner
 
To the OP-

I have never flown an Ercoupe, nor ridden in one. All I can say is I love them. They bring a smile to my face whenever I see one on the ramp. I say be very cautious when purchasing, as I would with any plane of any brand, or type, but by all means, go for it! If I were limited to LSA and I were on a small budget, it would be a no brainer for me. Ercoupe baby!!:yes:
 
Hmmmm. It's interesting all the people with 415C model and C85 engines think their airplanes are LSA. Wonder how that works?
 
docmirror said:
Hmmmm. It's interesting all the people with 415C model and C85 engines think their airplanes are LSA. Wonder how that works?
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The C85 is allowed on the 415C, see the TCDS Note 110. GW remains 1260 lbs so it qualifies for LSA ops.
 
docmirror said:
Don't bother with rudders, they just add weight,
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So do ailerons and elevators, but I wouldn't want to fly without them.

All right, we all know the word missing is rudder "pedals". And the Ercoupe without rudder pedals can handle a much higher cross wind component.
 
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Ercoupes can be flown with the canopy open correct? Lots of awesome points with that feature.
 
tinerj said:
So do ailerons and elevators, but I wouldn't want to fly without them.

All right, we all know the word missing is rudder "pedals". And the Ercoupe without rudder pedals can handle a much higher cross wind component.
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Why is that? Does an Ercoupe without pedals have more rudder travel?
 
ColoPilot said:
Why is that? Does an Ercoupe without pedals have more rudder travel?
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You just land it crabbed the landing gear will take the punishment.(I was incorrect about the trailing landing gear)
I've flown them and they are fun, like riding a moped is fun .:D
 
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how did these things not stick around or someone make a modern version?
Sounds like they are dead simple to fly. I want one.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
how did these things not stick around or someone make a modern version?
Sounds like they are dead simple to fly. I want one.
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Well, Mooney did take them up into the '70s.

The Mooney M10 Cadet

058585.jpg


Here's the one I want!! Notice the open cockpit!

floatcoupe.jpg
 
Ercoups are great. Everyone I know with years in aviation who has flown them owned them or worked on them, people who understand the design and performance pretty much unanimously agree that they were a revolutionary design for their time and still perform admirably today. It's probably the fastest affordable LSA available today. Incredible cross wind landing capability if rigged and flown correctly. That project on craigslist looks really great but, pretty sure those are metallized wings which along with rudder pedals are not desirable for a multitude of reasons. If you take time to do the research, dig deep, understand the history, the design, and the lore you will very likely come to the conclusion that the Ercoupe is the best LSA deal available today. But you have to find a good one and you have to know what you're looking for.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
how did these things not stick around or someone make a modern version?
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They kinda did, but not within LSA weight limits. A succession of companies built them off and on into the early 1960s. Then a couple of former Beech execs formed a company called Alon, and built a slick version with modern panel and aft-sliding canopy, the A-2 Aircoupe, first sold in 1965. Alon also flew a prototype of a very pretty four-seat derivative, called the A-4, but it never made it to production.

alon_xa-4_2.jpg


Around 1969 Alon sold out to Mooney, who wanted a two-seat trainer in its catalog. They put a new spring main landing gear and a Mooney-esque single tail on it, and call it the M-10 Cadet.

M10.jpg
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
...Sounds like they are dead simple to fly...
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Back in the late 60's when I was learning to fly the J3 they had an Ercoupe for rent and Mark Murvihill, the owner of the flight school, had a favorite story he used to tell about checking out a student in it. It went like this:

They were on final, everything was smooth and Murvihill was sitting in the right seat with his arms crossed, looking out the right window. The touch down was a bit rough and when he turned to look at the student he saw him sitting there with his arms crossed, looking out the left window. ;)
 
I talked with the seller of the CL project. He's not a pilot, nor an A&P. He did the paint, and interior, and another shop did the engine swap. He doesn't know anything about the engine swap, and he doesn't know anything about the spar carry-through AD compliance.

He's going to research this and the wing metalization and call me back. Nice guy, but not real knowledgable on the type. I have a trailer it will fit on easily so I may grab it up. I don't need LSA, but the engine swap concerns me. I know a lot of them are done, but it can't be a 415C without an STC for the engine, or change the type to 415E or F with the higher weight, and no more LSA.
 
Ercoupes are great little airplanes. I have 75hrs in one.

If you are tall and long legged, it may get cramped for you, especially if you have a passenger. Picture sitting in a 14ft fishing boat on the seat at the bow facing forward. The foot wells of the Coupe taper just like the bow of a boat.

As has been said, the center section is the achilles heel of the airplane. Have it inspected, and see that the "Swiss Cheese" AD (lots of inspection holes in the fabric on the underside of the wing) has been done.

A dual fork nose gear helps to reduce/eliminate shimmy and is desirable. The metalized wing and rudder pedal mods are unnecessary and undesirable IMHO.

The panel/yoke is set a bit close. I have found that you need a tad of wrist flex to achieve enough flair on landing due to the yoke being so close to your chest, and I'm not that big of a guy.

The trim tab is a bit too small, as I always have trim full up on final and still could use more. Just does not trim for landing like say a 172. No biggie tho.

It takes a bit of getting used to landing in a crab. I'm sure there are many Ercoupes out there that have cracked wooden floor boards in the area where the rudder pedals should be.

Flying with the windows down is a hoot. You can actually turn the airplane by sticking your arm/hand out the window.

A bit of local yore. There was a guy who flew his coupe by sitting on the top of the seat back, with his torso and head sticking out of the airplane. He hit a bump and was thrown out of the airplane, still holding onto the yoke. The resultant sudden up elevator forced him back into the cockpit!! :hairraise:

If you make it to Airventure, there is usually a forum about the care and maintenance of Ercoupes.

I say go for it!


Jeff Orear
RV6A N782P
Peshtigo, WI
 
docmirror said:
I talked with the seller of the CL project. He's not a pilot, nor an A&P. He did the paint, and interior, and another shop did the engine swap. He doesn't know anything about the engine swap, and he doesn't know anything about the spar carry-through AD compliance.

He's going to research this and the wing metalization and call me back. Nice guy, but not real knowledgable on the type. I have a trailer it will fit on easily so I may grab it up. I don't need LSA, but the engine swap concerns me. I know a lot of them are done, but it can't be a 415C without an STC for the engine, or change the type to 415E or F with the higher weight, and no more LSA.
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Are there complete logs on this plane?
 
docmirror said:
... I don't need LSA, but the engine swap concerns me. I know a lot of them are done, but it can't be a 415C without an STC for the engine, or change the type to 415E or F with the higher weight, and no more LSA.
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Go back and read my post #20, it has a link to the Type Certificate Data Sheet which currently belongs to Univair. The C85 is is allowed (see Note 110) and there is no increase in GW meaning the aircraft remains LSA compliant. There is no STC required.
 
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Silvaire said:
Go back and read my post #20, it has a link to the Type Certificate Data Sheet which currently belongs to Univair. The C85 is is allowed (see Note 110) and there is no increase in GW meaning the aircraft remains LSA compliant. There is no STC required.
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Thank you. Not sure why but I just missed note 110. I saw the other but didn't get down to 110, and there it is. Makes the deal much more palatable. Now if I find out about the spar AD being done, I may go grab that one up. I think I could make it a good flier for another 3-4k.
 
I have a ton of Ercoupe time in at least five 'coupes and it is my third favorite plane behind the PC-12 and SR22. It is a stark contrast to all of that technically advanced stuff and is a joy to fly because of its simplicity. Speaking of the PC-12 I find it very funny that it lands almost the same as an Ercoupe (but with rudder control of course). Both planes can touch down so softly you can't even feel the landing. I think the Ercoupe was ahead of its time and I'm onboard with Rod Machado who recently wrote an article saying he wishes someone would bring back this design. The view out of the Ercoupe is great despite it being a low wing. You can't beat the open cockpit experience. Everyone brags about its crosswind handling, which is true (it's great) but people forget to mention that this is not the type of plane that is comfortable to ride around in on a turbulent gusty day. True of many LSAs though. I like to fly it on calm evenings. Another limitation with the Ercoupe is its very limited useful load. I believe the no rudder pedal option is better, having flown both. The pedals just take up room in an already small floor and you don't need them. The plane does what it was designed to do without the pedals.

A good prebuy is important, of course, and it's important for the mechanic to be knowledgeable about Ercoupes. I had a fun time having an engine failure after takeoff in an Ercoupe that did not have a proper prebuy inspection (annual with sale, yeah right). Don't let that happen to you. The Ercoupe Owners Club is a great resource.

If you are looking for a fun, easy to fly airplane that you can fly open cockpit, and attract attention at fly-ins with, and toodle around with, and best of all stretch your dollars, then you would probably like an Ercoupe!
 
I have an Alon A-2 Aircoupe, a later version of the Ercoupe. Mine has a too high gross so it's not sport pilot legal. Mine has rudder pedals but I wish it didn't, they just take up legroom and add weight. You land in a crab even with the pedals and it's really fun, actually looking forward to landing in good crosswinds. The earlier ones are better for flying windows open, mine is windy with the canopy open. I have a c90 and a 48" climb prop and it is almost a STOL when solo. I climb at redline rpm all the way up to 8500' or so and cruise at a little over 100 kits. They are really fun planes to fly and have many ahead of their time features.
 
and in case any of you didn't know, the Thrasher Brothers Aerial Circus flew a twin Ercoupe in shows from 1946 to 1950.

WavingFromSiamesePlane.jpg
 
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