Ercoupe 415-C

cherokeeflyboy

cherokeeflyboy

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Cherokeeflyboy
I have a friend that is considering taking her primary training in the Ercoupe
I am curious, if she trains and takes her ride in one, would that limit her to only flying(PIC) a plane with 2 axis controls?
 
Yes. But there are rudder mods which i understand to be relatively easy installs
 
Please don't do it.

Putting rudder pedals in a 'Coupe is like putting a Texas "bubba bumper" on a Prius. It just ain't right.

:)
 
I believe the 415-C is Sport Pilot eligible if she wanted to go that route.

I'm with Jay, though.
 
I flew an Ercoupe for the first time on Saturday. A beautiful 1946 example. I found it easy and fun to fly. The two axes you can control were smooth and responsive. OTOH I can't see using one as a primary trainer. Coordination of aileron and rudder is so fundamental to flying you can't really learn to fly without rudders. Rolling into steep turns the adverse yaw was most noticeable (and annoying).
 

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rbridges said:
I didn't think about that. Is getting the restriction removed as simple as getting checked out in a "regular" plane?
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No, at least for Private, you have to take a practical test with an examiner (DPE or FAA) to have a limitation removed from your pilot certificate. Not sure exactly what that entails for this limitation, but I'm guessing ground ops (taxiing using feet rather than hands to steer), slow flight/stalls, and takeoffs/landings (especially crosswind takeoffs/landings and slips to a landing) at a minimum. For Sport Pilots, this might be done with two CFI's just like adding an additional class privilege.
 
The ercoupe with the 85 hp does not qualify for light sport.
 
THanx folks. She has free access to the airplane and the fuel is even covered by her dad. Armed with the info supplied, I am going to advise her accordingly. Im thinking that she should get her ticket in the 415, then when/if she desires to pilot other planes; because of the limitation, to go get a few hours of duel and take another ride. I think that would be the most economically (her goal) way to go.
 
N918KT said:
Why doesn't it qualify as a SP eligible aircraft? Will that 85 hp engine make the Ercoupe fly too fast, past the 120 kt limit?
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My guess is it bumps up the mgtow over 1320.
 
I once flew one with a 100hp engine.... Awesome takeoff and climb but still basically same ol cruise. Lol
 
The 85 hp STC, and the max gross STC are separate paperwork. So the 85 hp Ercoupes may or not be Light Sport eligible. A lot of them were STCed to the higher gross (1420 lbs I think) before Light Sport came on the scene. Some were not, and you can tell the difference by looking at the price. That 1420 STC reduces the value by about $10,000.
 
tinerj said:
The 85 hp STC, and the max gross STC are separate paperwork. So the 85 hp Ercoupes may or not be Light Sport eligible. A lot of them were STCed to the higher gross (1420 lbs I think) before Light Sport came on the scene. Some were not, and you can tell the difference by looking at the price. That 1420 STC reduces the value by about $10,000.
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Yep, and at one time that useful load increase STC was seen as the cat's meow. Yet another unintended consequence of our bureaucracy.

Better yet -- once you've got the STC, you can never, ever, go "back". Even though the plane is absolutely 100% identical to the non-STC'd ones.

And finally -- best of all -- if you see a non-STC'd Ercoupe flying with two normal sized, 21st century adult American males, it is absolutely either out of gas, or legally over-gross. How examiners give checkrides in an Ercoupe anymore is beyond me.

The answer, of course, is that they do it because even they know the lunacy of their rules.
 
N918KT said:
Why doesn't it qualify as a SP eligible aircraft? Will that 85 hp engine make the Ercoupe fly too fast, past the 120 kt limit?
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It goes over weight limit. I believe that is the d model.
 
tinerj said:
The 85 hp STC, and the max gross STC are separate paperwork. So the 85 hp Ercoupes may or not be Light Sport eligible. A lot of them were STCed to the higher gross (1420 lbs I think) before Light Sport came on the scene. Some were not, and you can tell the difference by looking at the price. That 1420 STC reduces the value by about $10,000.
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Haven't seen this mentioned, but once that 1420 STC is done, it can't be undone for the purpose of operating the aircraft as an LSA. To operate an aircraft as an LSA, that particular aircraft cannot ever have been licensed above 1320 MGW (float plane increase notwithstanding).
 
I'm training in an ercoupe as we speak. I love the plane, mine does have rudder pedals. The reason my cfi added rudder pedals was as mentioned, it has to have them on your check ride or you cant fly anything with pedals. Well you can if you get an endorsement but thats more money and another check ride. But regarding horse power. the c and cd versions had both 75 and 85 hp engines, so an 85 hp does not mean its not lsa compliant.
 
loch1957 said:
I'm training in an ercoupe as we speak. I love the plane, mine does have rudder pedals. The reason my cfi added rudder pedals was as mentioned, it has to have them on your check ride or you cant fly anything with pedals. Well you can if you get an endorsement but thats more money and another check ride. But regarding horse power. the c and cd versions had both 75 and 85 hp engines, so an 85 hp does not mean its not lsa compliant.
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But...but...with rudder pedals you'll never get to slide down final approach whilst looking out the side window! :D

Seriously, the first time I landed our old 'Coupe in a stiff crosswind, I thought I was gonna die. Even though I touched down (by necessity) in a crab, I need not have worried. Those big ol' gear (relative to the rest of the plane) just chirped on, absorbed the side loads, and rolled down the runway like nothing at all had happened.

The Ercoupe is a neat bird. I miss it.
 
cherokeeflyboy said:
THanx folks. She has free access to the airplane and the fuel is even covered by her dad. Armed with the info supplied, I am going to advise her accordingly. Im thinking that she should get her ticket in the 415, then when/if she desires to pilot other planes; because of the limitation, to go get a few hours of duel and take another ride. I think that would be the most economically (her goal) way to go.
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My advice would be to have her train in a three-axis plane (she'll be a better and safer pilot), then after solo, use the Ercoupe to build time, XC, etc., with another couple of hours in the three-axis before using that for her checkride.

To REALLY do it right, she should do her primary training in a taildragger, preferably one where she can learn spins. She would then come out with the tailwheel endorsement, fully understand stalls and spins, and still have the Ercoupe for building time (and keeping her enthusiasm up).

The two-axis-only limitation was imposed in the late 1940s, because Ercoupe pilots couldn't be trained on spin recovery. Now that spins are no longer required by the FAA, there is really no point in keeping the limitation, but the only people who should do their checkride in an Ercoupe are those who will stay Sport Pilot.

The Ercoupe was the absolute perfect aircraft for Jessica Cox (the world's only pilot to have been born without arms). She not only can fly the two-axis plane by holding the yoke with a foot, the pop-top cockpit entry makes it a lot easier for her to get into the plane and her seat belt.
 
loch1957 said:
I'm training in an ercoupe as we speak. I love the plane, mine does have rudder pedals. The reason my cfi added rudder pedals was as mentioned, it has to have them on your check ride or you cant fly anything with pedals. Well you can if you get an endorsement
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Just for terminological exactitude, for Recreational and Private Pilots, you don't get an endorsement (which is something placed in your logbook by an instructor), you get a limitation removed from your pilot certificate based on a practical test with an examiner.

If you did Sport Pilot in a no-pedals Ercoupe, the process would involve flying with two CFI's rather than a CFI and an examiner, but would still include an airman certificate application (8710-11 for Sport Pilots) and a new pilot certificate with the limitation removed, not just a logbook endorsement. See EAA's FAQ on point (still looking for written FAA guidance for instructors).
 
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I have a friend whom just purchased an Ercoupe-C with a-85. This airplane meets the SP rules. Before he purchased this we trained in it. He purchased it from our CFI. I hated training in it for it flies nothing like my little 320lb airplane.
People changed these to higher operating weight limits back in the day to allow for more weight. Not everyone changed them though.
Tony
 
Mr. Wright from Peoria IL. is the man to speak to about these airplanes, he knows these planes better then anyone. He is a member here.
He looked this airplane over my friend purchased and found her to be a good airplane.
Tony
 
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I wasnt 100% sure of the procedure but i knew there was some kind of training involved to be able to fly 3 axis if the check ride was in a 2 axis.
 
Ron Levy said:
No, at least for Private, you have to take a practical test with an examiner (DPE or FAA) to have a limitation removed from your pilot certificate. Not sure exactly what that entails for this limitation, but I'm guessing ground ops (taxiing using feet rather than hands to steer), slow flight/stalls, and takeoffs/landings (especially crosswind takeoffs/landings and slips to a landing) at a minimum. For Sport Pilots, this might be done with two CFI's just like adding an additional class privilege.
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Do you by chance have a reference to back this up? The school I work with is going to be adding an Ercoupe without rudder pedals as a leaseback in the next month or so and we've been trying to get an answer regarding any limitations that could be placed on certificates earned in an Ercoupe before doing much marketing for the airplane.
 
GCA319 said:
Do you by chance have a reference to back this up? The school I work with is going to be adding an Ercoupe without rudder pedals as a leaseback in the next month or so and we've been trying to get an answer regarding any limitations that could be placed on certificates earned in an Ercoupe before doing much marketing for the airplane.
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FAA Order 8900.1 and 8900.2.
D. The person is using a Ercoupe 415B for a private pilot certificate for an ASEL rating. This airplane does not have published stall speeds and cannot perform the stall or spin task. Specific guidance on the limitations to place on the applicant’s private pilot certificate, is as follows:
Private pilot
ASEL limited to Ercoupe 415
NOTE: When the applicant completes a private pilot practical test in a single engine airplane that has published stall speeds and stalling capabilities, the limitation may be removed.
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Note: For example, in the past, AFS-800 has approved the Ercoupe for use in a
practical test. Persons seeking to use an Ercoupe for a practical test would receive​
the limitation “Limited to Ercoupe Without Rudder Pedals.”
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Jay Honeck said:
Better yet -- once you've got the STC, you can never, ever, go "back". Even though the plane is absolutely 100% identical to the non-STC'd ones.
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why not? why can't this STC be removed just like any other?
 
Tom-D said:
why not? why can't this STC be removed just like any other?
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The STC can be removed, and then the MGW goes back down, but by regulation, it cannot then be flown as a LSA. See the definition of Light Sport Aircraft in 14 CFR 1.1, especially the part about "since its original certification has continued..."
 
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