Enthusiasm and Flight Training

[Tristar]

Aviation is clearly one of the most enjoyable, challenging and intriguing hobbies/careers available but throughout my exposure I've noticed a couple things. Everyone tends to come across a downfall from time to time. Students become frustrated because they haven't picked up a new skill, Instructors seem to be bored of the same things every day or the students' frustration rubs off on them. It becomes more of a job they're forced to do rather than remembering why they started flying or teaching. My question is, from your experience, what can students and/or instructors do to make flying fun again?

One example that worked for me is to make a game out of the challenge. Power off 180s for the commercial ticket can be difficult at first especially in wind so my instructor at the time challenged me to see who could make the best approach and landing. You can even pick different spots such as the numbers or the thousand foot markers. Some instructors even seem to like this because they "never get to fly" or so they tell me. I still remember that to this day and love power off 180s

What about ground training? Reading a book, although understandably necessary, is one of the hardest things to encourage people to do no matter their ratings. I try to switch my studying up between DVDs and the books. Different techniques also work for different people. Some like to study with groups and others like to do it alone. As far as the books go though, I believe if you can teach it to someone you know it but if you just read the book, you wont remember half of what you read. If you don't believe me read the entire Jepp Instrument/Comm book as I did and try to tell someone what you read in more than a paragraph. I was given a good tip on this to help students. Instead of asking them an overview of what they read, ask them to teach you about the particular subject. Once again, it'll give them a better understanding and a head start for CFI.

Flying is hard work but the enjoyment shouldn't be lost in the process so I would appreciate the tips to help my future students and myself keep aviation alive as it was born to be.

 

[HPNFlyGirl]

Wow I could write a book on this subject. Let me think about the things that were/are important to me and I will get back to you Tristan.

Good Luck on the CFI. I know you will do great.

 

[Maxmosbey]

I got my private forty years ago next month, so I'm not an expert by any means, but it seems to me that the students that I run across are pretty serious about their flying. Serious in that they have an agenda that they have to focus on. I think that an introduction to flying for fun would go a long ways. Have you ever thought about flying with a student to a flight breakfast some Saturday morning as part of the curriculum? Or maybe land somewhere for a cup of coffee? There is a lot of social aspects to flying that are left out of the training. I was talking to a young private pilot this morning who was flying over by BNW, and I asked him if he stopped in there for a cup of coffee, as that there were some interesting old guys who are there every Thursday morning, one of whom flew a B-17 in WWII. He hadn't known that. I'm not talking about a cup of coffee at some airport restaurant, I'm talking about stopping in at some little airport somewhere and getting to know the people who work there and who hang around there. When I was learning to fly, now I'm sounding like the old guy, we knew everyone at every airport in a thirty mile radius. I just think flight training, especially for the private license gets too regimented a lot of the time, for both the student and the instructor. Just my thoughts about flying in general.

 

[TMetzinger]

While I frequently find things to quibble over whenever Bob Miller makes a pronouncement on Over The Airwaves (or when I hear him on the Monday Aero-News Segment), I do think he's on to something in making most of the PPL curriculum be performed while doing cross-country flights. Instead of having 6 two hour blocks in a teaching day, he might have 3 four hour blocks, and the lesson will be an "out and back" to different airports, with manuevers, hoodwork, exposure to actual IMC, and other stuff on the way.

My primary instructor did a lot of my post-solo dual this way, and we'd always have enough time to stop for coffee/lunch at the airport restaurant. As a result, I can't recall getting frustrated or bored - each flight had an element of magic in it - there was always one new thing in each trip. The break in the middle was very helpful too, we could chat about things, or just decompress a little.

 

[Skip Miller]

Tim, if you couple your idea with the idea of stopping at one or more regional fly-in (such as AZ's Wings Fly-B-Q) you will have them hooked for sure!

-Skip

 

[TMetzinger]

I've been giving this more thought as I work towards the CFI. If I work for a flight school I'll have to follow their syllabus. But one place I rent from might be flexible enough to tolerate my teaching that way, as long as I have a good syllabus. Since this isn't going to be for me a required source of income, I can afford to be flexible, even if it means I don't bill as many hours.

We'll see.

 

[dmccormack]

I've been giving this more thought as I work towards the CFI. If I work for a flight school I'll have to follow their syllabus. But one place I rent from might be flexible enough to tolerate my teaching that way, as long as I have a good syllabus. Since this isn't going to be for me a required source of income, I can afford to be flexible, even if it means I don't bill as many hours..

You're on to what the FAA wants to call "Scenario Based Training" (of FITs), but what has been around every since a Student asked his/her CFI -- "How about we fly up to ...."

While some training elements require dedicated local air time (especially the Comm), the PP and IR should certainly add in as much "real world" flying as possible.

Thus every one of my student pilots will experience IMC before Practical Sign off, every one will fly in and out of Class B -- several times -- and every one will be introduced to some elements of the IR and Commercial maneuvers -- pro bono, if need be.

 

[TMetzinger]

Yeah, all my G1000 training was scenario-based, and all the stuff I did when getting a 737 sim ready for certification was scenario-based too.

There's an outfit that accomplishes the IR while doing a cross-country -across the WHOLE country - I think that would be a fabulous way to really learn about weather, terrain, as well as working in the system.

 

[dmccormack]

Yeah, all my G1000 training was scenario-based, and all the stuff I did when getting a 737 sim ready for certification was scenario-based too.

There's an outfit that accomplishes the IR while doing a cross-country -across the WHOLE country - I think that would be a fabulous way to really learn about weather, terrain, as well as working in the system.

Sure would....

I learned more IFR on one 10 hour flight from Pittsburgh to Phoenix than in the previous 20 (shooting endless local approaches).

Since then I genuinely look forward to IFR XC -- only on a long XC can you learn handoffs, enroute procedures, weather changes, and adaptation.

I suppose that's why we say the IR is a ticket to learn.

 

[Everskyward]

I got my private forty years ago next month, so I'm not an expert by any means, but it seems to me that the students that I run across are pretty serious about their flying. Serious in that they have an agenda that they have to focus on. I think that an introduction to flying for fun would go a long ways. Have you ever thought about flying with a student to a flight breakfast some Saturday morning as part of the curriculum? Or maybe land somewhere for a cup of coffee?

I think a lot of depends on the student and their individual personality. Some people are very goal-oriented and want to get done in the shortest amount of time possible. Looking back, I was not like that, nor did my instructor instruct that way. I can remember doing a night X-C to Rio Vista, CA where we had dinner. We did a mountain checkout to South Lake Tahoe before my private checkride. He also taught me spins and, more or less, how to fly an ILS, and he made it seem like fun. Some people would say that was overkill for private pilot preparation but I didn't feel that way even though I had more hours (close to 70) than I probably would have if he had stuck strictly to a curriculum. I would say that my instructor either did an excellent job of reading me or, just by chance, we had the same way of looking at things. If I had gotten someone who was all business and no fun I might not have been inclined to continue.

On the other hand, I think anyone who takes up flying can expect, at some point, to be frustrated and discouraged. That's just a normal part of learning. It's helpful to remind students that this too will pass.

 

[Ted]

My instructor certainly made instruction about fun. Yes, I've had my frustrating bits in my training, but overall it's fun, even when we're doing work. Like Mari, I got some overkill in my training, but it was fun. My instructor properly read me for what I was after (still does), and has responded accordingly. That's why I've stuck with him and why I've stuck with flying.

If I had gotten an instructor who did this poorly, I probably would have just quit. I know several instructors who would view this as a deficiency in me, but to me that shows a deficiency in the instructor. A good teacher makes the student WANT to learn.

 

[Maxmosbey]

I think a lot of depends on the student and their individual personality. Some people are very goal-oriented and want to get done in the shortest amount of time possible.

You are probably right there. Everyone has their own reason for learning to fly. I know that sometimes people want to learn to fly for business, and they want to get it done as soon as possible. I also realize that the schools have a syllabus that they want their instructors to follow as closely as they can, and if your focus is being a professional pilot, your approach to flying is going to be different. I guess that I am just pointing out the things that keep me motivated. I think that the really good instructors can recognize what motivates each individual pilot, and is able to use that to keep them in the air. The more I read these forums, the more I think that my approach to flying is different than most, at least most people on this forum. I am a firm believer in each to his own though.

 

[Everskyward]

if your focus is being a professional pilot, your approach to flying is going to be different.

As someone who evolved from flying only for fun to flying professionally, that is certainly true, especially after you start working for someone. Your employer is not interested in making things fun for you, they want you to be productive. Training is usually very compressed and done in the shortest time possible because you are not earning money for them by being in school.

I think that the really good instructors can recognize what motivates each individual pilot, and is able to use that to keep them in the air.

Exactly. Some people take a more businesslike approach to things and would not be entertained by games. Other people might consider it a fun challenge.

The more I read these forums, the more I think that my approach to flying is different than most, at least most people on this forum. I am a firm believer in each to his own though.

I have always thought my approach to flying was different than other people's too, and I'm also a firm believer in "to each his (or her) own". That's why I find it difficult to give people advice, especially people I don't know well.

 

[Maxmosbey]

As someone who evolved from flying only for fun to flying professionally, that is certainly true, especially after you start working for someone. Your employer is not interested in making things fun for you, they want you to be productive.

One day this spring I grabbed a 172 at lunch, and went flying. There were two corporate pilots sitting there waiting, as most corporate pilots do a lot of the time. I spoke to one briefly before I left. When I got back, the one commented on my short flight, and asked me where I went. I told him that I took a quick one over Hickory Grove lake, to see how many fishing boats were out on the water. He turned to the other pilot and asked, "when is the last time you took a 172 out just for fun." The other pilot said that he couldn't remember. I kind of felt sorry for them.

 

[Everskyward]

There were two corporate pilots sitting there waiting, as most corporate pilots do a lot of the time.

LOL. That's what my laptop is for. Fortunately most FBOs, even the smaller ones, seem to have wireless nowadays.

I spoke to one briefly before I left. When I got back, the one commented on my short flight, and asked me where I went. I told him that I took a quick one over Hickory Grove lake, to see how many fishing boats were out on the water. He turned to the other pilot and asked, "when is the last time you took a 172 out just for fun." The other pilot said that he couldn't remember. I kind of felt sorry for them.

I occasionally get this question from someone, most recently a week ago. Honestly, I don't really have any desire to go out and rent a 172 and bum around. That is partially because I've lived here in Colorado for a long time and I flew small airplanes around here for many years, mostly as a job. I feel like I've seen everything there is to see within a 172's range. If I moved somewhere new and interesting I might have a different answer but I'm not sure. Last summer I took some aerobatic lessons which I enjoyed. That was the first small plane I had rented in a long, long time, and at this point, probably the only reason I would want to rent a small plane. I need to get back to that but my schedule this spring and summer has been too crazy. Maybe once everything stabilizes...

I never have any thoughts of trading my job for a personal airplane, but, as we have both said, people have their own preferences.

 

[Maxmosbey]

I occasionally get this question from someone, most recently a week ago. Honestly, I don't really have any desire to go out and rent a 172 and bum around. That is partially because I've lived here in Colorado for a long time and I flew small airplanes around here for many years, mostly as a job. I feel like I've seen everything there is to see within a 172's range. If I moved somewhere new and interesting I might have a different answer but I'm not sure. Last summer I took some aerobatic lessons which I enjoyed. That was the first small plane I had rented in a long, long time, and at this point, probably the only reason I would want to rent a small plane. I need to get back to that but my schedule this spring and summer has been too crazy. Maybe once everything stabilizes...

I never have any thoughts of trading my job for a personal airplane, but, as we have both said, people have their own preferences.

Well, that is interesting, because the talkative pilot seemed like he would like to go flying over the lake, but the other one wasn't that interested in the conversation in general. Like we were saying before, each to their own. The other pilot was probably thinking about something else he would rather be doing that didn't have anything to do with flying.

 

[Everskyward]

The other pilot was probably thinking about something else he would rather be doing that didn't have anything to do with flying.

Among the people I work with, that would probably be the most common thought. Funny, I was talking about a similar subject the other day with my flying buddy. Pilots, at least the ones I work with, want 3 things; more money, more time off, and to fly a bigger, newer airplane.

 

[TMetzinger]

Some people love flying for the romance of it, the grandeur of the view, the people they meet, the adventure of launching and doing something few people do (I think of Gordon Baxter and Lane Wallace)
Others love it for the satisfaction they get in doing a complex, critical task, correctly (I rarely hear Richard Collins talk about the view, but I've got no doubts he loves airplanes and flying).
Others love it for the utility or business benefits.
Some don't really love it at all, but it's a job that they find acceptable to support their lifestyle while they have other things they love.

And most of us probably find that all of these factors matter more or less. I go for the first two mostly, myself.

 

[Ted]

Some people love flying for the romance of it, the grandeur of the view, the people they meet, the adventure of launching and doing something few people do (I think of Gordon Baxter and Lane Wallace)
Others love it for the satisfaction they get in doing a complex, critical task, correctly (I rarely hear Richard Collins talk about the view, but I've got no doubts he loves airplanes and flying).
Others love it for the utility or business benefits.
Some don't really love it at all, but it's a job that they find acceptable to support their lifestyle while they have other things they love.

And most of us probably find that all of these factors matter more or less. I go for the first two mostly, myself.

I go for factors 1, 2, and 3. 4 doesn't apply to me since flying isn't a job (even though there are times when it's felt like it).

However, when was the last time I took a plane out "for fun"? Hmm... well, it's always fun. I don't think there's been a single flight since my PP check ride that has been solely for that purpose. Sure, I've taken some people up flying to show them the area (interns and visitors, mostly), but other than those, every flight has had a mission of some sort. Sometimes that mission is training (especially for my IR), but more frequently it's actually going somewhere and doing something. It's always fun, and sometimes I've called up a friend and said "Hey, you want to get lunch today?" and then I fly up to see them, but that's been the closest. I really have no interest in going out and just flying over the area by myself, including this one.

That said, I understand the value of these missions for other people, especially with friends who I want to introduce to flying and get them interested in it. But in that case, that's primarily what it is to me, a mission. I enjoy it still, but it's not something I'd go out and do "just for the fun of it."

 

[Everskyward]

Some people love flying for the romance of it, the grandeur of the view, the people they meet, the adventure of launching and doing something few people do (I think of Gordon Baxter and Lane Wallace)
Others love it for the satisfaction they get in doing a complex, critical task, correctly (I rarely hear Richard Collins talk about the view, but I've got no doubts he loves airplanes and flying).
Others love it for the utility or business benefits.
Some don't really love it at all, but it's a job that they find acceptable to support their lifestyle while they have other things they love.

I think I started out with reason 1, although I wouldn't attach the world "love" to flying or anything else since I'm not much of a romantic. For me it was the first activity that was all mine. No one told me I had to do it or even suggested that I should do it.

That evolved to reason 4 combined with reason 2. For many years flying has been my job, and I approach it that way. I figure that as long as I need to work, I might as well do something that interests me. Flying also has a kinesthetic appeal to me which is something I think Maxmosby is alluding to when he compares it to riding a motorcycle. I think that many people who are attracted to flying also like to operate other vehicles.

 

[GigG601XL]

My Grandfather was a corp pilot for ~20 years he would always go up in a 172 or 182 at least once a month for all of that 20 years that I can remember. He retired and did a little instruction from the early 70's till he lost is medical in 77.

Probably the fewest hours he flew in a week from before WWII through 1978 was probably 5 and usually many more. Once he stopped flying his health went from from healthy to dead in a little over a year. I'm just glad the last flight he got to take was the day after I got my PP. He died about a month later.

I noticed the other day that one of the current corp pilots that works for the same company he did bought a J3 Cub and I've seen him come into the airport flying a Falcon and then go straight to the Cub for a 30 minute flight before heading home.

My Grandfather would be proud of him.

 

[nddons]

You raise a great issue, and I'll approach it from a consumer standpoint. I started flying when I was 45 (ignoring the 3-4 lessons I took when I was 22, which stopped only because of lack of money and time.) So my focus and enthusiasm existed despite the lack of enthusiasm I felt from certain instructors and flight schools.

If you look back at your high school or college career fondly, in many cases it was because of the one or two teachers who lived their subjects, cared about their students, and went above and beyond the call of duty to impart their knowledge in a way that made you come back for more.

So when you are in the flight training environment, I've seen fewer "lifers" who could turn out to be the types of teachers I mentioned above, but when you do, you feel grateful to have experienced them. I think Kenny could be one of those people, for example.

The reality is that there are a lot of CFIs building hours only, and I've seen more than one student come in, take a lesson or two, and leave, because it operated more like ACME Driving School than a professional flight school.

Another point: most of us like to fly to go somewhere. Yet the cross countries that we fly in training are meant to get the job done, but not necessarily impart a fun experience. So why would a flight school only have 2 or 3 flyouts per year? I would think that if you had enthusiasm in your flight school, you could have 2 or 3 flyouts per MONTH! If a flyout was focused on student pilots, and each rental included one instructor and two students, and you did that frequently, most schools with an active student base would do very well with those kind of flyouts.

Just a few random thoughts.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

I don't know about you but on a hot day like it gets in NJ I enjoy flying to around 6000 feet and doing a 2000 FPM dive and listening to the wind rush by on a crystal clear day as you plummet toward the earth, Granted your ears hurt a little bit but it is exhilarating to just let go of the controls and dive, then cruise climb back up and do it all over. For me it relieves stress but it might cause some for other people. So my instructor will be able to tell if im really tense and he will just let me have fun and dive in the cool air.
However on cooler day when its not torturous to be at low altitude I love flying at 500 feet AGL and just watching all of the scenery up close and detailed. This is very nice at cooler temperatures. granted no mountains in South NJ but watching all of the farms and irrigation blow by you is incredible, also I love trimming trees at that altitude and getting low to rivers and roads to watch the traffic and laugh at their slowness!

 

[Tristar]

Another point: most of us like to fly to go somewhere. Yet the cross countries that we fly in training are meant to get the job done, but not necessarily impart a fun experience. So why would a flight school only have 2 or 3 flyouts per year? I would think that if you had enthusiasm in your flight school, you could have 2 or 3 flyouts per MONTH! If a flyout was focused on student pilots, and each rental included one instructor and two students, and you did that frequently, most schools with an active student base would do very well with those kind of flyouts.

I know that most XCs for flight schools are usually to the same place. I have, however, been asked where I wanted to go on many occasions but to "make it at least X amount of miles." Although we rarely have time to stop for more than a soda if at all because the planes are booked back to back.

Our school doesn't have scheduled fly outs period. We are not allowed to have more than either one student/pilot or one student and instructor per plane. Which means no fun flights with friends (instructor doesn't count as a "friend" in this example since you're paying them). Before they cracked down on this policy we had an awesome time renting the planes and taking friends to local eateries. We had a blast and it inspired the "fun" part of flying. Unfortunately this is what happens when the only objective of the flight school is to get you your ratings with the cheapest insurance possible. Our school is not the only place like this. The great thing is there is an FBO next door that will let us do about anything outside of breaking the airplane. So the opportunities for fun flights are still available.

P.S. Ponca City, OK is an awesome place for fly outs and pancake breakfasts!!

 

[tonycondon]

i almost always try to do the dual cross countries somewhere where we cans top and take a break. sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. often we do the night cross country to my hometown for some pizza. yum!

 

[2256Q]

I started Air Force flight training in 1961. The thing that kept it interesting for me was the fact that we began our training in complex aircraft and instrument training was just another part of the lessons. The intensity of the training was such that you didn't have time to get bored with anything. I'm not sure how well this will be received, but is it possible that students these days could benefit from a more intense training program, given in more complex aircraft?

 

[tonycondon]

could be Ray, but the advantage that the Air Force has is that their program is highly competitive and they can wash out people who can't cut it in the time allowed. I think that some students would benefit from that sort of pressure in their training but others probably dont feel like paying for an instructor to be a hard ass all the time.

 

[Areeda]

Tony,

I heard more about commitment than washout potential in Ray's post.

Joe

 

[tonycondon]

the washout potential motivates the commitment?

 

[2256Q]

the washout potential motivates the commitment?

Certainly not in my case. I wanted to be a pilot, an Air Force fighter pilot. That was the only motivation I needed. Made it, too.

 

[tonycondon]

thats cool ray. i guess i figure that the people going into military aviation know well ahead that they are going to have to be a cut above to pull it off, and that motivates them, as it seems to have you. and they are proud of it, as they should be.

on the civilian side there just isnt a similar motivation source. people struggle, and have the rest of the real world to deal with besides flying. most people can be taught to fly given enough time and money.

 

[KennyFlys]

the washout potential motivates the commitment?

I don't think it's a concern over washout potential near as much as perhaps determining those who should not be pilots. I'd state a very specific example but I fear it would result in stirring the pot more than is expected.

I imagine Tristan sees a few who should not be flying. But, they are kept on because that's money to the school.

 

[KennyFlys]

Certainly not in my case. I wanted to be a pilot, an Air Force fighter pilot. That was the only motivation I needed. Made it, too.

Ray, ya couldn't cut it for Naval Aviation Officer Candidate School, eh?

 

[2256Q]

thats cool ray. i guess i figure that the people going into military aviation know well ahead that they are going to have to be a cut above to pull it off, and that motivates them, as it seems to have you. and they are proud of it, as they should be.

on the civilian side there just isnt a similar motivation source. people struggle, and have the rest of the real world to deal with besides flying. most people can be taught to fly given enough time and money.

I suppose you're right, Tony. My problem is that I have such a deep, abiding love for aviation that I sometimes forget other people have their own ideas about things. I hear someone say something like, "You'd never get me up in one of those things," and my first thought is, 'what is wrong with them?'

 

[tonycondon]

i can understand that feeling ray. ive learned to accept that some people just will not ever fly and its their loss.

 

[Everskyward]

Certainly not in my case. I wanted to be a pilot, an Air Force fighter pilot. That was the only motivation I needed. Made it, too.

But you had plenty of motivation to begin with and well it should be. You would hope Air Force fighter pilots would be motivated. I think what others are talking about is the problem of keeping students motivated who are more interested in flying for fun. The problem is, at times, it isn't so much fun. You need to be able to set the hook deep enough to keep them coming back. I think your theory would work with some people but would intimidate others.

 

[dmccormack]

thats cool ray. i guess i figure that the people going into military aviation know well ahead that they are going to have to be a cut above to pull it off, and that motivates them, as it seems to have you. and they are proud of it, as they should be.

on the civilian side there just isnt a similar motivation source. people struggle, and have the rest of the real world to deal with besides flying. most people can be taught to fly given enough time and money.

Absolutely right.

All selective Military training has the spectre of "washout" as a stick, with completing the program and earning the wings, tab, bar -- whatever -- as the carrot.

While some civilian programs could certainly benefit from a more structured or real-world approach, the fact is civilian flight training is a business, and the customer can choose from a variety of vendors.

I've been an instructor in military and civilian, and -- hands down -- civilian instruction where the student chooses whether you continue as instructor or not is far, far more challenging.

You need to walk that delicate line between sales and standards, and it's definately a balancing act at times.

 

[bbchien]

Certainly not in my case. I wanted to be a pilot, an Air Force fighter pilot. That was the only motivation I needed. Made it, too.

Not in my case. I was "put" in school because they needed another Flight deck qual'd Lt.

Eat, drink breathe sleep and I can still recite several of the emergency checklists.

I wasn't top in my group but sure was passable.

I think the most insightful comment back a dozen or so posts, is that the teacher has to understand the individual students' motivation and his type of learning skills.

As I sat through my IR student's oral last PM, I was impressed by how much he had gleaned from reading the JEPP course book cover to cover, that I never had to teach him. His major weakness is flexibility in the brain, e.g, rethinking on the fly. We did about fifteen hours of "sight reading" plates about 50% in REAL for him to get that one whipped.

The ride is not going to happen just today- weather didn't clear in the needed period. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[GaryO]

I know that most XCs for flight schools are usually to the same place. I have, however, been asked where I wanted to go on many occasions but to "make it at least X amount of miles." Although we rarely have time to stop for more than a soda if at all because the planes are booked back to back.

When I was a student I had two XCs that really lit the fire for me. Both were flown to fields which were having a warbird show - not an airshow, just ground displays. At both stops the C150 was only shut down for about 5 minutes.

There is one thing about each of them that really affected me.

The first, to Sarasota (SRQ), after shut down I walked over to look at a P51. There was a barricade from the FBO to the warbirds and back forming a corridor for people to walk by and look at the aircraft. There was a long line of people waiting to see them. I walked along the "other" side of the barricade up to the P51. I'll never forget the looks I got as I walked past those people waiting in the line.

On the second, we got to Lakeland (LAL) as the Warbirds were preparing to depart. After a quick visit to the FBO for a soda, I re-started the C150 and called Ground for taxi instructions. I was instructed to follow the Hellcat !!!

As I followed the Hellcat, a P51 was taking off on the runway on my left. He lifted off almost right beside me. A minute later the Hellcat and I both waited at the hold short line while another P51 departed. The only downer was tower asking me to make a right turn out as soon as practical to get out of the way of the other departing warbirds.

But even that became a plus because then I could watch the departures from the air.

 

[Maxmosbey]

I know that most XCs for flight schools are usually to the same place. I have, however, been asked where I wanted to go on many occasions but to "make it at least X amount of miles." Although we rarely have time to stop for more than a soda if at all because the planes are booked back to back.

Our school doesn't have scheduled fly outs period. We are not allowed to have more than either one student/pilot or one student and instructor per plane. Which means no fun flights with friends (instructor doesn't count as a "friend" in this example since you're paying them). Before they cracked down on this policy we had an awesome time renting the planes and taking friends to local eateries. We had a blast and it inspired the "fun" part of flying. Unfortunately this is what happens when the only objective of the flight school is to get you your ratings with the cheapest insurance possible. Our school is not the only place like this. The great thing is there is an FBO next door that will let us do about anything outside of breaking the airplane. So the opportunities for fun flights are still available.

P.S. Ponca City, OK is an awesome place for fly outs and pancake breakfasts!!

There's negatives and positives to everything. That is the negative side of a big flight school. I've been fortunate to always have airplanes available to fly. The place where I work does a lot of training, but it is not so structured. The individual CFIs seem to have a lot of control of the student's training. The FBO also is liberal with scheduling. I've seen students take planes for overnighters on several occasions. A friend of mine is working on his private, and he flew to Cedar Rapids for one of his cross countries, and visited his parents there. I think that we have it pretty good here in that regard. For my part, most of the time I can just walk in and find a plane available. Of course, I generally do my flying on Thursday or Friday mornings, but I've gotten them on the weekends too.