Engine out training

jhoyt

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Jun 29, 2014
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Jim
Aviators--still working on hopefully getting the ticket before losing the good weather. As I look at the check ride, and the "engine out" scenario, wondered how you seasoned pilots approach handling an "engine out problem" and possible forced landing? I get the checklist of stuff to do --the best glide; running through the gas/carb heat/mixture/magnetos, etc…---but I am curious how some of you logically/methodically go through finding a place to land, and doing it in somewhat of an organized way in your minds? I know it's good to have an idea where airports are on your map, and keeping those in mind as you are flying. But flying out of Yakima, WA, it's not like you've go a bunch of airfields within 5 miles of your position, so you are looking at fields and roads, etc… as your landing spot (which is better than looking at buildings!). I still feel a little "seat of the pants" when I am choosing spots, and also struggling somewhat to get the right altitude. Many times I've got the field but find myself too high and am madly slipping to make landing. Never seems very smooth.

Appreciate any thoughts.
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Aviators--still working on hopefully getting the ticket before losing the good weather. As I look at the check ride, and the "engine out" scenario, wondered how you seasoned pilots approach handling an "engine out problem" and possible forced landing? I get the checklist of stuff to do --the best glide; running through the gas/carb heat/mixture/magnetos, etc…---but I am curious how some of you logically/methodically go through finding a place to land, and doing it in somewhat of an organized way in your minds? I know it's good to have an idea where airports are on your map, and keeping those in mind as you are flying. But flying out of Yakima, WA, it's not like you've go a bunch of airfields within 5 miles of your position, so you are looking at fields and roads, etc… as your landing spot (which is better than looking at buildings!). I still feel a little "seat of the pants" when I am choosing spots, and also struggling somewhat to get the right altitude. Many times I've got the field but find myself too high and am madly slipping to make landing. Never seems very smooth.

Appreciate any thoughts.
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Better to be a little high and have to slip than to be a little low. It don't have to be smooth, it just has to be survivable and if you can re-use the airplane afterwards that's a bonus.
 
I tend to look at the ground around me as part of my scan.
I really do debate engine out throughout my flights.

Mrs. 6PC will tell you I frequently say
"If the engine quits, that's my field"

I look for the largest field I can easily make.

If you are too high and slipping madly,
consider a tight 360 (nose down attitude) to lose alt.

I also tell myself that I don't need a field that is as long as a runway. I am trying to save my life. Making a graceful landing and saving the plane is not a concern. Meaning let's say you have a field that is short. Then the goal is to get the plane on the ground and hit the trees at the end as slow as possible.

The best possible landing spot may not be pretty. You can't look for the perfect one, you have to look for the one that is least likely of the available options to end a life.

As far as actually getting the flying down, Pull your throttle at different places in the pattern and get an idea of how the plane flies w/o power. This will help you figure out if you need to throw in an S turn here or there to lose speed, slip or 360 to lose altitude.

Go up w/ your CFI and spend a whole lesson doing this. You need to learn to gauge where you can get the plane with loss of power. It is actually a lot of fun to practice.
 
After spotting an acceptable field on my check ride, getting to best glide, going through all of the procedures, lining up perfectly and getting down to 500' DPE says "Nice job...but why didn't you land at that grass strip airfield we were right over?"...DOH!

Lesson of the day...once stabilized use the "nearest" function to see if there is a better option that you are not seeing than a field or road!
 
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After spotting an acceptable field on my check ride, getting to best glide, going through all of the procedures, lining up perfectly and getting down to 500' DPE says "Nice job...but why didn't you land at that grass strip airfield we were right over?"...DOH!

Lesson of the day...once stabilized use the "nearest" function to see if there is a better option that you are not seeing than a field or road!


I used to take my students and BFR candidates over a closed air force base with parallel 7300 feet runways with big but faded yellow Xs on the ends. I would show them the runways, talk about how nice they would be for an emergency landing, then turn them away. After about 30 seconds I would simulate a engine failure. 1 out of 10 people would turn back to the old runways...:dunno: :lol:
 
excellent point

I didn't expect this but my DPE says "I think you are about to lose your engine" and he is pointing out the window. I am not sure what is happening but he keeps pointing.

DPE: "What does that look like? Looks kind of like an airport doesn't it? Between you and me I will never pull the engine unless we are near an airport in case it dies for real."

I never imagined in a million years I would have gotten that heads up.

We are at about 2000 feet and right over the south end of the runway and as luck would have it, my engine "dies".

Me: "A, Airspeed Best Glide pitch to 75. B, Best place to land. We have identified the field. C, Checklist we are too low to pull it out so skipping it.

I tell him I cant make it from here so I am going to to a circle to the right and no flaps until I have the runway made. I had planned for 2 months that I was going to take advantage of the Engine out portion to incorporate a slip. I am good at slips and it gives me an opportunity to share my knowledge.

I state "We are lining up nicely but a bit high and The good news is I can slip it. Also since we don't add flaps until we are certain we have the runway made, I can slip now since this plane requires no flaps for slipping"

DPE: "Outstanding"

I nail it and he let me get surprisingly low to the ground (maybe < 20 feet) before calling for a go around.


Look for the airstrip.
I hear it is very common for them to create this emergency right over an airfield.
 
Try to land a little closer to the edge of the plowed field than this guy did, your friends will be more likely to talk to you the next day.

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1. Where is a spot where I think I will survive the landing?...check
Start towards it
2. Where is a spot where I think I will do the least amount of damage to the airplane?...check
3. Where is a spot that will keep me off the news(aka an airport)?...check

I start big, then fine tune.
 
Its very good practice to constantly have an emergency landing sight picked out, and you should be extra diligent about it on a checkride. For my Private ride, the DPE pulled the power during my ground reference maneuvers. He actually caught me off guard, but it was handled all the same, just less time to do everything.
 
If you are too high and slipping madly,
consider a tight 360 (nose down attitude) to lose alt.

As far as actually getting the flying down, Pull your throttle at different places in the pattern and get an idea of how the plane flies w/o power. This will help you figure out if you need to throw in an S turn here or there to lose speed, slip or 360 to lose altitude.

I was taught never to lose site of the initial emergency landing spot, and doing a tight 360 in a stressful situation might not end well. I think S turns and slipping is a better alternative, but keep the landing zone in site. The point is to get it on the ground and walk away. Do what ever it takes.
 
My home airport is right along a river. Lots of homes/buildings in the vicinity so no other place to ditch if I lose an engine on takeoff. Found this article regarding "water landing" a Cessna. Not as good as an open field but a lot better then buildings. One of my big concerns is that I/We get unbelted and exit the aircraft fast since the high wings are going to have the fuselage go under rather quickly. Making sure the doors are opened (among other things) seems critical for this type of emergency landing.

http://www.decodedscience.com/how-execute-water-landing-ditching-your-airplane-water/15386
 
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My home airport is right along a river. Lots of homes/buildings in the vicinity so no other place to ditch if I lose an engine on takeoff. Found this article regarding "water landing" a Cessna. Not as good as an open field but a lot better then buildings. My biggest concern would be making sure I/We get unbelted and exit the aircraft fast since the high wings are going to have the fuselage go under rather quickly. Making sure the doors are opened (among other things) seems critical for this type of emergency landing.

http://www.decodedscience.com/how-execute-water-landing-ditching-your-airplane-water/15386

I would think a high wing would be preferred in a water landing, that way you have a big step when the airplanes flips. :lol: ;)
 
If you are too high and slipping madly,
consider a tight 360 (nose down attitude) to lose alt.

Maybe practice this so you know how much altitude yer gonna lose. It might just surprise you...
 
Pick your field carefully and look for power poles. Not the huge ones, but the local distribution lines.

An instructor and student were practicing engine outs and came back saying they had hit something. I looked at the plane and they had hit a wire with the vertical stab. Three feet higher and the wire would have come through the windscreen. That wouldn't have been pretty.
 
I couldn't let this pass without commenting because I just had the experience on July 5th, 2014. My real life experience occurred while cruising along enroute and at a location just 13 nm from the destination airport. My favorite lady and I were crusing along on a trip to the Lake Country in our Aeronca Chief when the engined failed, sputtered once and then went quiet. After a quick check of aircraft status and one brief attempt at a restart, I advised my special lady passenger that we were going to have to "land'er in a field". To her credit, she exhibited absolutely no panic and even looked out and found a field she thought possible.

Meanwhile, I was concentrating on best glide, confirming my own feeling of where we were at and choosing an acceptable landing site. While in a very comfortable turn to the left so that I got a better look at the local terrain I selected a hayfield and decided on a landing orientation compatible with its' most recent cultivation and my sense of the prevailing wind (although I would probably used that field no matter what the winds were). This was in an area of Southern N.Y. which has a smattering of mountains, forests and farmland so, while not the most vile environment possible, it wasn't anything like simply falling from pattern altitude to your training strip runway ! At this point Attitude and Airspeed became my primary concerns. Lots of altitude was available and since I had now chosen where to go, I was busily slipping off the extra 1000 ft of altitude which was unneeded. As I approached the landing site, a huge powerline array appeared alongside the woods bordering the hayfield and my turn to base became more like 160 than 90 degrees to the hay field but not the real approach path I initially had chosen. Nonetheless, it was beginning to look like a grass field landing without trees and buildings and whatever obstacles. I took note of our touchdown airspeed-37 mph !!! The rest of the landing was not so pretty. although the hayfield had been worked this season, it turned out that my chosen touchdown spot had significant wetspots and the landing gear suffered some considerable damage, there was some minor fabric damage on the underside etc. But as someone else noted, these things can be repaired. Altogether, from the first touchdown spot to the end of our inglorious landing was a total of about
100 ft ! The two of us turned to the other with the same question "Are you OK?" My courageous passenger and I were physically unhurt and the walk to the nearest homestead was not more than 1000 feet. Talk about how it can turn out-the lady of the house not only helped us with telephone contacts but served us Cherry Cheesecake while we shook off our experience and awaited pick up!!!

Now I may not qualify to you as a seasoned veteran pilot, but I have been there and seen the writing on the wall and have this advice. First;have situational awareness-I have a GPS and I love it but when you have just a few moments to make critical decisions common sense will serve you far better; Second;know your airplane and how it responds to powerless flight Third; Have your CFI set up training where you actually make emergency landings, not at 20 'agl but to a stop! and my favorite passenger says "Have your Guardian Angel under your wings".
 
During my checkride, I learned a valuable lesson from my DPE.

He pulled the power and I set everything up correctly, best glide, looked around and picked a field, went through a quick check of the big culprits (fuel selector, mixture, throttle, carb heat, mags), told him I'd call on 121.5, and transponder set to 7700.

As I'm descending towards the field, he asked me why I didn't land on the state road below us. I pointed out the powerlines that run parallel to the road would be a danger, especially if they crossed the road at any point; which was likely since they ran on the far side of the road from where most of the towns were.

Then he got me, he asked me if I was sure of the field I had chosen. I told him I was and then he pointed out that it was a fully grown corn field and it was going to be a pretty rough landing and the plane would probably be damaged. I froze and suddenly wasn't so confident in my choice. He let us descend another couple hundred feet towards the field, with me babbling incoherently trying to figure out what to do, before he gave back the power and explained to me why he'd asked those questions.

The only thing you should be concerned about in an emergency is getting you and your passengers on the ground safely. You should not be worrying about the plane or anything else. If something happens to the plane, that's something for the insurance to handle, it can be replaced. You and/or your passengers cannot.

Don't hesitate or doubt yourself or your decisions because of concerns about the plane. I had made my decision and started my descent, and then let someone who was acting essentially as a passenger throw me off. The distraction and indecision could have had bad consequences if it was a real emergency.

Hopefully if/when I have an actual emergency I'll keep that lesson at the front of my mind.
 
I made this video of a dead stick landing in my RV12. It gives you a good idea of being able to glide quite a ways and still make an airport. I have had 40,000 hits so far. :D

: http://youtu.be/_xZmsxEewik

I watched this video awhile back. Did you actually turn off your engine? That pretty much eliminates any go around option correct?



I did a simulated engine out today over a grass field, did a 360, a bit of slipping and then full flaps to land. Good times!
 
Best things you can do.
1. Practice power off landings a lot. Like at least once every time you fly. Learn how to adjust the flaps, pattern and slips to land where you want to.
2. If at all possible fly a downwind or at least a base leg. If landing in a farm field you can do a short base or a long base depending on you altitude. Try to make your emergency landing a normal landing as much as possible.
3. Better to land near buildings or road just in case it isn't a perfect landing, This will make it a lot easier for help to find and assist you if you need it.

If you can get the plane rolling on the wheels there is a very good chance you will walk away from it.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

A friend of mine added a power rating after flying gliders for quite a few years when the DPE had him demonstrate a simulated power failure the DPE says "I can tell you are a glider pilot, you relaxed when I pulled the throttle" My friend responded "it is even better than that, see the line in the field I picked... That is the wheel track where I landed my glider last week"
 
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I watched this video awhile back. Did you actually turn off your engine? That pretty much eliminates any go around option correct?



I did a simulated engine out today over a grass field, did a 360, a bit of slipping and then full flaps to land. Good times!

Yes, the engine is off. The prop is stopped. The Rotax 912 restarts very easily. ;)
 
I couldn't let this pass without commenting because I just had the experience on July 5th, 2014. My real life experience occurred while cruising along enroute and at a location just 13 nm from the destination airport. My favorite lady and I were crusing along on a trip to the Lake Country in our Aeronca Chief when the engined failed, sputtered once and then went quiet. After a quick check of aircraft status and one brief attempt at a restart, I advised my special lady passenger that we were going to have to "land'er in a field". To her credit, she exhibited absolutely no panic and even looked out and found a field she thought possible.

Meanwhile, I was concentrating on best glide, confirming my own feeling of where we were at and choosing an acceptable landing site. While in a very comfortable turn to the left so that I got a better look at the local terrain I selected a hayfield and decided on a landing orientation compatible with its' most recent cultivation and my sense of the prevailing wind (although I would probably used that field no matter what the winds were). This was in an area of Southern N.Y. which has a smattering of mountains, forests and farmland so, while not the most vile environment possible, it wasn't anything like simply falling from pattern altitude to your training strip runway ! At this point Attitude and Airspeed became my primary concerns. Lots of altitude was available and since I had now chosen where to go, I was busily slipping off the extra 1000 ft of altitude which was unneeded. As I approached the landing site, a huge powerline array appeared alongside the woods bordering the hayfield and my turn to base became more like 160 than 90 degrees to the hay field but not the real approach path I initially had chosen. Nonetheless, it was beginning to look like a grass field landing without trees and buildings and whatever obstacles. I took note of our touchdown airspeed-37 mph !!! The rest of the landing was not so pretty. although the hayfield had been worked this season, it turned out that my chosen touchdown spot had significant wetspots and the landing gear suffered some considerable damage, there was some minor fabric damage on the underside etc. But as someone else noted, these things can be repaired. Altogether, from the first touchdown spot to the end of our inglorious landing was a total of about
100 ft ! The two of us turned to the other with the same question "Are you OK?" My courageous passenger and I were physically unhurt and the walk to the nearest homestead was not more than 1000 feet. Talk about how it can turn out-the lady of the house not only helped us with telephone contacts but served us Cherry Cheesecake while we shook off our experience and awaited pick up!!!

Now I may not qualify to you as a seasoned veteran pilot, but I have been there and seen the writing on the wall and have this advice. First;have situational awareness-I have a GPS and I love it but when you have just a few moments to make critical decisions common sense will serve you far better; Second;know your airplane and how it responds to powerless flight Third; Have your CFI set up training where you actually make emergency landings, not at 20 'agl but to a stop! and my favorite passenger says "Have your Guardian Angel under your wings".

Nicely done sir. Cherry cheese cake no less. :lol:
 
Yes, the engine is off. The prop is stopped. The Rotax 912 restarts very easily. ;)

Thanks, didn't know if it had some fancy clutch mechanism to disengage the prop. Not sure why a plane would need that but who knows...
 
From takeoff to touchdown,always know where I'm going to put it down,with engine out. Go as far as to see where the closest boat is when flying over water. For the check ride always look around you 360 degrees,the dpe will sometimes go engine out with an airport right behind you.
 
I like seeing how many pilots here mentioned that they are on the lookout for an emergency field at all times. Good practice.
And great stories, thanks!
 
I spend the majority of spare time picking spots to land while in cruise at 8k-10k.

On a recent VFR trip to get some gas, I noted that it'd been way too long since I practiced any engine outs, so, I tuned to the nearest Delta, advised them of my intentions to practice a simulated engine out from quite a distance, and then pulled to idle. I deliberately tried not to plan anything else ahead of time, such as visualizing flight paths, briefing speeds or procedures. I surprised myself as much as the circumstances allowed.

After that, I did 2 more stop and goes with simulated engine outs at various points in the pattern, some with the prop control all the way back, other times with it full forward, since there will be times where you might not have authority over the prop.

It's been about 2 years since I've done it from cruise over a random area with nothing picked out, I should get on that.
 
Lots of people have had an instructor pull the power and you set up for a nice field and have had this happen:

CFI: What field are you heading for?
ME: That one over there, to the left of the little lake.
CFI: How about this one here?
ME: Where?
CFI: This long skinny one with the airplanes parked next to it.
ME: Oh, that might be better.

I had an instructor pull the mixture on me on downwind to runway 23 at FDK (this was before the silly control tower installation).

CFI: What are you going to do, captain?
ME: Put it down on 30.
CFI: Good, use the grass, it will be more realistic. (there's a grass runway parallel to 30 that the gliders use but this was midweek and there was nobody on it).

Nice thing about CFI's doing the engine out over a grass strip is that you get to fly it down to the ground.
 
Maybe practice this so you know how much altitude yer gonna lose. It might just surprise you...

Could be a surprise in the opposite way too. Believe it or not, a checkout CFI made me circle in a 150, because I was so used to PA28 dropping easily. But yes, you must have altitude for a nice circle. Otherwise if you start circling and then realize that you're too low, you are going to miss the landing area for sure.
 
Slip is part of the test standards. Two birds can die with one stone.
 
I am curious how some of you logically/methodically go through finding a place to land, and doing it in somewhat of an organized way in your minds?

First best glide, assessing nearest airports and deciding that none will work, and cockpit checks for fuel, mixture and mags.

Then decide where to pull the chute. Someplace before I descend to 1000 AGL. Not over a big cold lake. Near a highway might be good. If I'm at 10,000 I'll have time enough to make that decision, push the ELT button, squawk 7700, and announce before pulling.

I think about this at least once on every long cross-country flight, partly because there's not much else to do.
 
I try at least once a year to do a simulated engine out from altitude, just like the poster mentioned. Get to a nearby field and manage the energy. It really is good practice.
 
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