Engine conversion

[David]

My plane has an IO470C. It's got 1200SMOH and runs like a top. Oil use is around 1 quart every ten hours if I want to keep it right on the 10q line on the dip stick - which I do.

Anyway, looking forward, if my plane doesn't sell, I'm thinking that it might be wise to buy a low time engine when it's time for an overhaul rather than pay for an overhaul. Can other IO470's be converted to a C? C's seem to be a bit of lame duck, how about to an N model? I can easily, with an STC, use an IO470N, and keep my prop. For instance, barons have IO470L's in them which seem similar to an N. Would it be just plain stupid to convert an L to an N, impossible or plausible depending on cost? I'd like to keep a C type engine because it's certified to run on the old 91/96 gas which may be a good thing if 100LL goes away - let's hope not!
Thanks

 

[stingray]

Look in your Type certificate and see what engines are approved for your airplane.

You can also see if any other planes have an approved engine swap and use that as approved date for a field approval and try and get it approved that way.

Dan

 

[Ted]

I'd be more interested in figuring out how to replace your 470 with a 520 or 550.

Well, actually I'd want to throw in a 540, but the 520/550 option seems a little more probable.

 

[David]

I've got no problem finding STC's to upgrade to a different model engine - there are several available. I'm wondering what is involved to convert say an IO470L to an IO470N. Is it even possible? Possible but not worth the expense? etc.

Look in your Type certificate and see what engines are approved for your airplane.

You can also see if any other planes have an approved engine swap and use that as approved date for a field approval and try and get it approved that way.

Dan

I'd be more interested in figuring out how to replace your 470 with a 520 or 550.

Well, actually I'd want to throw in a 540, but the 520/550 option seems a little more probable.

 

[Ted]

I don't know anything about Continentals, but on Lycomings the conversion process is probably less difficult itself for two engines of the same rated power and RPM (mostly external components), but the paperwork associated with it would be a tremendous headache. I'd suspect Continentals to be similar.

 

[Tom-D]

You can also see if any other planes have an approved engine swap and use that as approved date for a field approval and try and get it approved that way.

Dan

Not any more, see the FAA's stance on this.

to make it short, every aircraft is approved on its own. no more blanket approvals. and no more approving STCed Data with out proof you own the paper.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Anyway, looking forward, if my plane doesn't sell, I'm thinking that it might be wise to buy a low time engine when it's time for an overhaul rather than pay for an overhaul.

How do you know what you are buying without a complete teardown inspection? You would be better off keeping your present engine ( a known quantity) and eventually overhauling it than buying an unknown and having problems with it later on.

 

[Tom-D]

I've got no problem finding STC's to upgrade to a different model engine - there are several available. I'm wondering what is involved to convert say an IO470L to an IO470N. Is it even possible? Possible but not worth the expense? etc.

Sure it is possible, buy the STC, or do the field approval. the field approval will take a bout 2 years to circulate thru the FSDO and then may get disapproved.

So then you start over, make a few changes and see if the FSDO will approve it again, over and over until the FSDO gets tired of it and approves it or you run out of money.

 

[Tom-D]

How do you know what you are buying without a complete teardown inspection?

The same way you inspect your engine to say it is airworthy.

Every body flys a used engine.

 

[RotorAndWing]

The same way you inspect your engine to say it is airworthy.

Every body flys a used engine.

Not a used engine you've never seen nor know the rebuild history or previous operating history of.

 

[Tom-D]

Not a used engine you've never seen nor know the rebuild history or previous operating history of.

The IA that declares the engine airworthy at each annual, doesn't know squat how you treat your engine. They only care about the condition right then.

 

[RotorAndWing]

The IA that declares the engine airworthy at each annual, doesn't know squat how you treat your engine. They only care about the condition right then.

You're clearly missing the point here.

Buying an unknown engine to use is like anything else, buyer beware. If you show up to buy the used engine and there it sits, all pretty with new paint and the owner tells you how wonderful it is and it doesn't use oil, how do you know? Also, how do you know if this engine has been involved in an accident or had a prop strike? Believe it or not, people are known to lie about things to make a sale.

It would take alot of due diligence when buying an unknown used engine.

Back a couple of years ago I came across a Continental IO-360G engine that the seller advertised as "fresh overhauled". He sent me pics of the engine and it was impressive looking. He told me he got the engine from a Skymaster that was salvaged from Miami due to a hangar collapsing on the plane. First thing I noticed was the log entries for the overhaul were very vague. Next I noticed there was several pieces of paperwork missing for components (8130 forms). I started making phone calls and digging further and found out the mechanic who "overhauled" the engine had his certificate revoked by the FAA for forging paperwork on other overhauls he had done. He was known to install used uncertified parts back into engines and then make up paperwork for them.

Yep, that engine was quite the deal.

 

[Tom-D]

You're clearly missing the point here.

Buying an unknown engine to use is like anything else, buyer beware..

You betcha,,,,,, that is why you buy from a reputable salvage yard that will give you a 30 day guaranty, you buy it, install it, and see how well it runs, if it ain't right they will give you your money back or another engine.

I bought a 0-320- off E-Bay, the owner said it came off a 1968 cardinal for an up grade. it was at TBO, and that it had 100 hour cylinders on it.

After I got it, I did the compression check, and it looked good, and installed it on my friends 172 last summer, it has been running fine all winter he has about 100 hours on it now and is grinning because he only has about 7k in it.

 

[charlie]

Converting an IO-470-L to an "N" changes the sump, fuel injection system, intake pipes and can be done IAW an old TCM service bulletin so it is a log entry by an A & P no 337 or FAA involved. If you part out the existing "C" you have all the parts and components and can sell the "L" stuff with the reamins of the "C". Buying a used engine is VERY risky. The "C" ought to run to 1700 s why hurry. The extra 10 HP is only available at max power so it doesn't do much for you. Cgharlie Melot Zephyr Engines

 

[Henning]

I'd be more interested in figuring out how to replace your 470 with a 520 or 550.

Well, actually I'd want to throw in a 540, but the 520/550 option seems a little more probable.

Not me, I'd want the IO-470 and turbo normalize it. Put some Dolly Parton tip tanks out there. I'd prefer even using the SMA diesel. At 200 hp cruise speed (around 145kts) that engine is supposed to be using 6gph. With 100 gallons of fuel, I can make Hawaii, and that means I can make the Pacific. I have attained my desire of a global range plane. It's slower than I want, but I can live with one 18 hr leg.

 

[David]

Converting an IO-470-L to an "N" changes the sump, fuel injection system, intake pipes and can be done IAW an old TCM service bulletin so it is a log entry by an A & P no 337 or FAA involved. If you part out the existing "C" you have all the parts and components and can sell the "L" stuff with the reamins of the "C". Buying a used engine is VERY risky. The "C" ought to run to 1700 s why hurry. The extra 10 HP is only available at max power so it doesn't do much for you. Cgharlie Melot Zephyr Engines

Thanks for the explanation Charlie. I was starting to wonder if anyone understood my question. I'm in no hurry to do anything with the engine, just thinking about future possibilities. And thanks for the vote of confidence in my IO470C.

 

[David]

Not me, I'd want the IO-470 and turbo normalize it. Put some Dolly Parton tip tanks out there. I'd prefer even using the SMA diesel. At 200 hp cruise speed (around 145kts) that engine is supposed to be using 6gph. With 100 gallons of fuel, I can make Hawaii, and that means I can make the Pacific. I have attained my desire of a global range plane. It's slower than I want, but I can live with one 18 hr leg.

I've got 100 gallons already with the BDS tips. Just pop in the diesel and you're good to go !

 

[gismo]

Converting an IO-470-L to an "N" changes the sump, fuel injection system, intake pipes and can be done IAW an old TCM service bulletin so it is a log entry by an A & P no 337 or FAA involved. If you part out the existing "C" you have all the parts and components and can sell the "L" stuff with the reamins of the "C". Buying a used engine is VERY risky. The "C" ought to run to 1700 s why hurry. The extra 10 HP is only available at max power so it doesn't do much for you. Cgharlie Melot Zephyr Engines

Hah, I was about to suggest the OP contact Charlie for the correct answer to his question and then I found this post.

Charlie has explained how to convert a -L to a -N but I think you'd still need an STC to install that converted engine in your airplane unless the -N is listed in the type certificate for the airplane. Also I suspect there might be other changes involved, such as the markings on the tach and fuel flow gauges plus the exhaust pipes might be different.

Seems like a lot of effort for such a small horsepower gain to me.

 

[David]

Hah, I was about to suggest the OP contact Charlie for the correct answer to his question and then I found this post.

Charlie has explained how to convert a -L to a -N but I think you'd still need an STC to install that converted engine in your airplane unless the -N is listed in the type certificate for the airplane. Also I suspect there might be other changes involved, such as the markings on the tach and fuel flow gauges plus the exhaust pipes might be different.

Seems like a lot of effort for such a small horsepower gain to me.

Lance,
Good points, I've got no interest in a meager 10HP however, if the price was right regarding a used engine it might be worth it. I would also like to be certain that the engine was good as Charlie suggested. I've got electronic engine gauges so modifying them for new parameters is fairly straight forward. I just have to send them back to EI and they update them as needed. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there's no problem getting an STC but I'm also somewhat reluctant to get rid of an engine that doesn't need 100LL.