Yeah, but you cant get any used parts. All the scrapped ones the gear is DAMAGED... -
Yeah, but you cant get any used parts. All the scrapped ones are DAMAGED... -
Drag still goes up exponentially and the 50 year old Mooney design has something like 20knots on the gen 6 Cirrus SR22T. The faster you go the more the gear has to go up.
Auto extending the gear in the event of chute pull is *trivial*.
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I have 500 hours in my chute pulled plane. Flies just fine at 40KTS faster than your Mooney - sometimes even better than that...
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How often does your Mooney hit 350+ KTs of ground speed?
You're in a turbo, right?
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More like 10 knots. Did you not read the post I typed for you earlier? The 242 KT figure is clearly marketing. POH has 233 KTAS as top speed at best power under the best temperature conditions running 50 degree ROP. My SR22 TN would easily do 225+ KTAS at FL250 at 50 ROP but Cirrus isn't reckless enough to recommend that engine destroying power regime.
Yep, you're in a retract right?
Show me the AFM quote. Also you know there are two Acclaim versions one faster than the other....
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It's two pages back on this thread. You are worse than arguing with my 5 year old nephew. I think others reading this know who the troll is. I was willing to give you a chance because some of your other posts seemed reasonable but I'm done with you now.
I'm curious, what makes them desirable over a regular airplane?
Gear ups are generally easily repaired.
I added the to make sure people knew I wasn't serious. I would buy a retract just because they look better.
Principal advantages are:
- Small requirements for takeoff and landing space - this confers an advantage of safety for low-altitude operations
- Ability to tolerate high winds
- Need little hangar space
Disadvantages are
- Great power requirements and thus high fuel burn
- Even then, slow
- Noisy
- Have unrecoverable modes that pilot must avoid
The Panthera is also going for approval on a hybrid and an electric version. I really hope that plane does not turn into vapor. Has a CAPS system. Is going for a utility rating, and full spin testing. Plus, they claim even with the 540 in it will do 170 k at around 11 or 12 GPH. I even like that they ditched the 390 because they wanted owners to have the certification to use Mogas. Tell me this is not a fun, capable little plane so far.
Question about that video... Was that really a spin test? Yes, they were spinning downwards, but because the controls were making the plane do that. Does spin testing need to do stall induced spins? They didn't stall the plane in the video. Just curious. Very cool plane, btw.
I also like how the cabin door in on the pilot's side. No need for the pilot to get in first and then watch passengers step on things they shouldn't when trying to get into the plane. Never understood why the cabin door is on the right on older single-door planes.
That's crazy man! Was it pretty smooth up there?I have 500 hours in my chute pulled plane. Flies just fine at 40KTS faster than your Mooney - sometimes even better than that...
View attachment 52481
How often does your Mooney hit 350+ KTs of ground speed?
That was their celebration for passing the European spin certification.Question about that video... Was that really a spin test? Yes, they were spinning downwards, but because the controls were making the plane do that. Does spin testing need to do stall induced spins? They didn't stall the plane in the video. Just curious. Very cool plane, btw.
I also like how the cabin door in on the pilot's side. No need for the pilot to get in first and then watch passengers step on things they shouldn't when trying to get into the plane. Never understood why the cabin door is on the right on older single-door planes.
Didn't read entire thread, but the parasitic drag coefficient for the Mooney is 0.017 vs Cirrus 0.024, Bonanza is 0.019, since drag goes up exponentially, it takes a lot of HP and drag reduction to overcome increase drag at higher velocities. The few extra knots don't come cheap. I think Cirrus did all they can with a fixed gear design.
I don't want the added weight, complexity or liability of a retract on my personal airplane.
Why would I want to buy a plane with retracts when the company who built it thinks they can charge $700 for a plastic door handle and $900 for a wire wound rheostat that you can buy on Mouser for $45? These are the same folks that would tell you to buy a new actuator if you asked for a grease specification to inspect and re-grease it.
Just look at the parts pricing for older single engine retracts and you'll figure out why there are few new ones.
Failures are well documented on older ones. Just Beech for example.
http://csobeech.com/gear-rod.html
If I wanted to hangout in the flight levels all the time, well maybe.
That's crazy man! Was it pretty smooth up there?
Yeah, me either. I like retracts. Owned Cessna 310s, 210s, Vikings, and then, a Cessna 185. The annuals on the C185, even with lots of off-airport operations (beaches, gravel roads, sand bars, etc.) were generally around 50%-60% of the single engine retract annuals (of course, the 310s were a lot more, ). The retract tests, microswitch adjustments, hydraulic leaks, etc., there always seemed to be something...I don't want the added weight, complexity or liability of a retract on my personal airplane....
Well there you go. And hindsight2020, re retract maintenance, I don't know where you get that from. My retractable gear have cost me zero over a Cirrus the last 8 years. No issues, and my annual is the same fixed rate at my shop as a SR22. They aren't that big a deal to maintain on most types....
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The biggest complaints I've heard about Mooneys:
-it feels cramped inside
-it's hard to land
point is the gear has never been brought up as an issue "I wish my Mooney had a fixed gear"
With computer simulation and advanced manufacturing techniques there are few advantages anymore to a retract. Guys with well faired fixed gear Ventures are only about 15-17 knts slower than the retracts if that. Small price to pay for reduced insurance and build complexity. The main advantage to a retract is the added drag when you need it now.
I own both a retract and fixed gear so.....Huh?? Do you consider 15 to 17 knots delta to be trivial? Even if it were, the fuel savings and overall aerodynamic efficiency does not stop with the speed delta. Retractible gear provides numerous advantages and speed brakes is not even one I have ever thought much about.
After a few hours retractible time, the insurance price penalty is virtually nil. In fact, with tailwheel time, my retractible insurance quote did not seem to have any added cost even though I had zero retract time. You might want to check into the facts on the insurance costs before commenting.
Just curious, have you ever flown a retractible?
I own both a retract and fixed gear so.....
...a retract with an all out top speed faster than the latest Mooney iirc.
That's great! What does this have to do with the claim that insurance is inordinately expensive and the only advantage that a retract offers is speed brakes?
According to the POH, the plane should get faster with higher ambient temp. See attached. Also not sure why the POH shows 233 KTAS as top speed.
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