TangoWhiskey
Touchdown! Greaser!
brcase
En-Route
I love the story a good friend tells once in a while. He had I think over 800 hrs of glider time when he decided to get his power rating. During the check ride the examiner pulled the throttle to simulate a power failure. He of course easily set up for an emergency landing in a field. The examiner commented on how he noticed that my friend relaxed when the power was pulled. He also commented on how well he set up and was really prepared to land in the field. It was at this point my friend pointed out the examiner. "See that line down the middle of the field we are lined up on, That is the wheel track from where I landed my glider last week"
With 800 hours of glider time and less than 15 hours of power time (a long time ago) the spinning propeller just made him nervous.
Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
Allen C
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Allen C
Axe,
Enough cannot be said about just how well you handled this. You lived my nightmare and walked away. Thank you very much for the writeup. I, for one, have taken away alot from this and will change a few things about how I fly.
On a side note, I will start another thread about ideas on surviving after the crash.
Again, great job my friend.
Allen
Enough cannot be said about just how well you handled this. You lived my nightmare and walked away. Thank you very much for the writeup. I, for one, have taken away alot from this and will change a few things about how I fly.
On a side note, I will start another thread about ideas on surviving after the crash.
Again, great job my friend.
Allen
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
That is it! Take a look at the pictures. No signs of piston scuff, or anomolies in the castings. The plane was used to set a speed record about 2 years before. This may have weakened the engine parts, but that is a WAG. Rotax engines in general, are pretty tough.
I have been told that the wrong viscosity oil was used in the engine, causing oil starvation.
It sounds like the plane might not be placed back into service, but sold without engine instead.
FWIW, I am now well prepared in the survival equipment area.
It sounds like the plane might not be placed back into service, but sold without engine instead.
FWIW, I am now well prepared in the survival equipment area.
gprellwitz
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Grant Prellwitz
Drastic consequences for such a simple mistake. I presume that it was at an oil change and that just adding a quart of the wrong viscosity wouldn't cause this.You are correct!! The plane had just come out of annual.
I had flown it two or three hours in the previous two weeks in much the same weather, in 2000 foot ceilings, over desolate, heavily forested areas. There would have been little in the way of spots suitable for emergency landings. If the engine had quit during those flights, I think you would have been reading my fatal NTSB accident report instead of hearing my account firsthand.
I have no doubt that the man upstairs was looking out for me, since when the engine did fail, it was at the absolutely best location it could have in terms of farm fields to land in. Had I flown another few minutes, it could have gotten ugly.
I never thought I should have to sample and check the viscosity of the oil as part of my preflight inspection.
Since my emergency landing, the A/P's have all left the FBO.
I still don't know why the electrical system failed. I doubt I ever will. That is going to drive me nuts!
I had flown it two or three hours in the previous two weeks in much the same weather, in 2000 foot ceilings, over desolate, heavily forested areas. There would have been little in the way of spots suitable for emergency landings. If the engine had quit during those flights, I think you would have been reading my fatal NTSB accident report instead of hearing my account firsthand.
I have no doubt that the man upstairs was looking out for me, since when the engine did fail, it was at the absolutely best location it could have in terms of farm fields to land in. Had I flown another few minutes, it could have gotten ugly.
I never thought I should have to sample and check the viscosity of the oil as part of my preflight inspection.
Since my emergency landing, the A/P's have all left the FBO.
I still don't know why the electrical system failed. I doubt I ever will. That is going to drive me nuts!
BillTIZ
Final Approach
We rescued a pilot off a dry lake bed last weekend. We received a call at the glider club from El Paso TX. As it turned out, it was the owner of the airplane. His pilot ferrying his new to him SkyBolt and was on the lake bed south of us and needing fuel. His pilot had called him, he googled the area and found us and our phone number.
We saddle up, and take him 4 gallons and ask if he is comfortable following us back to the airport. There is one long lake bed for 2/3 the distance but it ends 5 miles short of the runway. If he is not comfortable, land there and we'll bring you another can.
Based on his fuel flow, he elected to follow us all the way. At the gas pump he could only put 16 gallons into a 37 gallon system. We had already given him 4 and he would have burned 1/2 of that. So.. he had fuel in the tanks, but he had fuel starvation.
Checked all the lines, gascolator etc, no issues. Called the mechanic. Suspect was the tanks were not venting, so after an hour of flying there was enough vacume on the tank that no more fuel would freely flow.
He was about 3000ft AGL in a SkyBolt, not known for great glide performance.. and over a very large dry lake. A very lucky pilot, he had just crossed Death Valley and some 10K MSL mountains. Another 10 miles would have put him over higher terrain and no place to land except a couple of non descript runways.
The previous weekend, the lake was not dry and was not usable.
We saddle up, and take him 4 gallons and ask if he is comfortable following us back to the airport. There is one long lake bed for 2/3 the distance but it ends 5 miles short of the runway. If he is not comfortable, land there and we'll bring you another can.
Based on his fuel flow, he elected to follow us all the way. At the gas pump he could only put 16 gallons into a 37 gallon system. We had already given him 4 and he would have burned 1/2 of that. So.. he had fuel in the tanks, but he had fuel starvation.
Checked all the lines, gascolator etc, no issues. Called the mechanic. Suspect was the tanks were not venting, so after an hour of flying there was enough vacume on the tank that no more fuel would freely flow.
He was about 3000ft AGL in a SkyBolt, not known for great glide performance.. and over a very large dry lake. A very lucky pilot, he had just crossed Death Valley and some 10K MSL mountains. Another 10 miles would have put him over higher terrain and no place to land except a couple of non descript runways.
The previous weekend, the lake was not dry and was not usable.
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steingar
Taxi to Parking
By Mjollnir, what a tale! I can only hope to do so well when my time comes! Many congrats to the OP!
From the original post. "I continued to climb until I reached 5,500 feet MSL. I then leveled off at 5,500 feet MSL. Within a minute or so of leveling off, approximately 5 minutes into the flight, the engine abruptly stopped. The propeller stopped and did not windmill. I also noticed that the radio was dark, indicating to me an electrical failure as well."
Oil viscosity????????????? Is anyone else skeptical of this?
Oil viscosity????????????? Is anyone else skeptical of this?
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Light and Sporty Guy
I would be surprised if you could tell the difference in viscosity between the commonly found aircraft oils just by inspection.
I would be surprised if the difference in viscosity between commonly found aircraft oils would take out a rod bearing.
Well, you said:
If the end of the rod punctured the wire to the alternator it would have created a massive short that could have taken out quite a bit of your electrical system.
Clark1961
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A Rotax doesn't use aircraft oil. Maybe the problem was aircraft oil was used instead of the specified oil? I'm thinking that too high a viscosity oil is a bad thing, a really bad thing since clearances are designed for a specific oil. Basically the bearings would not be receiving the design oil flow and the oil pressure gauge would be reading top of the green (basically at the pressure limit valve opening pressure) even after warm up.
It's a bad sign if oil temperature is high and oil pressure is max...
It's a bad sign if oil temperature is high and oil pressure is max...
Dan Thomas
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Dan Thomas
If the engine needs a low-viscosity oil but gets a high-vis, oil pressure can fall because the oil pump can't suck it up fast enough. It cavitates instead.
And so a thick oil in a cold engine will be really late getting to the bearings, and they will suffer damage during the start and warmup that only shows up later in flight, maybe several hours later. The wrong oil in an engine could easily wreck it.
Dan
I was speaking tongue-in-cheek here. I meant that bringing one of the viscometers from work each time I flew to test the oil would be impractical.:smile:
I don't know enough about the engine and the effect of various oil viscosities at different temperatures to be able to make any intelligent comment. You may well be right. I am just passing along what I have been told.
The information I have gotten thus far has been from third parties who knew someone who worked at the FBO. When I have called the FBO to verify the info, I have been told the information I have heard is not correct. Then a week or two later I learn the information I had heard is correct.
Thus far the information I have gotten from the third parties has turned out to be accurate. That is why I passed along this new info for those who are interested in the cause of the failure
I can see that being the case. I don't think I will be made privy to the final results of whatever investigation is being done by Rotax, however. Thus far the FBO has not been eager to share any information with me. I would prefer to know exactly what happened as opposed to knowing what probably happened. The idea of not knowing for sure just bugs me a little. I am curious by nature.
I am of course interested to learn exactly what happened because I had the excitement of dealing with the emergency. The FBO does not seem interested in any detailed analysis of what happened. The airplane has been offered for sale and has a buyer. I suspect the FBO just wants a new engine so they can finish the sale of the plane.
The plane was an orphan that was left over when their dealer status with Tecnam ended. They are moving on and waiting for delivery of a Skycatcher now.
The aircraft showed oil pressure and oil temperature on the low side of normal on my preflight checks that day.
RogerT
Cleared for Takeoff
What about cooling? The Rotax has water cooled heads and air
cooled cylinders. Was the water flowing? Could it have stuck a
piston?
Sounds like Rotax doesn't want any info out about a failure
in one of their engines.
Myself .. I would have gotten one of the maintenance guys at
the FSDO involved. That would insure that answers were forthcoming.
RT
cooled cylinders. Was the water flowing? Could it have stuck a
piston?
Sounds like Rotax doesn't want any info out about a failure
in one of their engines.
Myself .. I would have gotten one of the maintenance guys at
the FSDO involved. That would insure that answers were forthcoming.
RT