Electrical Failure - what could I have done better?

DesertNomad

DesertNomad

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DesertNomad
I am a low time PPL (160 hrs). Today my wife and I were flying on a $100 hamburger run to to the middle of nowhere Nevada.

About 25 minutes after departure from Reno, the battery charge needle fell to a point halfway between 0 and (-) and was twitching around wildly. The low voltage light blinked once. No circuit breakers had popped at that point. The COM2 radio was flickering, but the G430W was working ok.

I was on flight following with Oakland Center and tried calling them to let them know we would be turning around and returning to Reno (Class C). After four or five tries with no response, I squawked 7600 and decided to head for Stead (an uncontrolled airport just outside the Reno Class C). I also tried calling NorCal approach for Reno but got no response.

I started turning things off - lights and the G430W, but left the COM2 on as it seemed to be working again. I was able to get the AWOS at Stead... and the CTAF for a bit... lots of planes (4 or 5) in the pattern and wind 090 at 7kts, so they were using (left pattern) 8 (Stead has 8/26 and 14/32). I then turned the radio off until we got closer.

About 8 miles north of Stead, I tried to turn the COM2 back on but it was completely dead. With so many airplanes in the pattern, and approaching from the north, I elected to land straight in to 14. I was nearly perpendicular to the downwind for 8 so had good visibility of the whole field. The pattern for 8/26 goes right over the 14 numbers so everyone in the pattern would hopefully be at 800' AGL where I planned to set it down.

I kept a close eye for anyone trying to depart on 32 and my wife was calling out planes in the pattern for 8 and looking for the aerobatic Decathlon that flies in a box above Stead. We were in a C172 so I had no flaps which didn't click in my mind until I tried to lower them. Hahaha. ok - no flap crosswind landing... not a big deal on a 9000' runway.

We landed fine, turned off to taxi down the parallel taxiway and then maybe a minute later watched a MiG 21 take off on 32. We had to wait to cross 8/26 for 2 or 3 other planes taking off or doing touch-and-goes.

Once parked, I noticed the alternator circuit breaker had popped. I called Oakland Center to tell them we had landed at Stead and they had already figured that out... they thanked me for the call.

We then called my CFI and he came out looked it over, he spoke with the head of maintenance, reset the breaker that popped sometime during the trip back to Stead and started it up. I was surprised it started since I assumed we had run the battery down. Everything seemed ok, the run up was completely normal, radios worked fine, so we made a quick, uneventful flight back to Reno using only COM2 and now the maintenance guys are going to look at it.

Any hints on how I may have handled this better? Everything turned out fine, but as a low time guy, I am looking for what I may do better next time (other than rent a plane that works!).

Thanks.
 
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You might have tried checking the circuit breakers,and shut down equipment as soon as the light was blinking. You seem to have done a good job,not sure I would have gone against traffic,on landing. Good job.
 
Um, maybe it is just me, but kudos one good job! Minus trying the breakers (which might spark a lively conversation), you landed without bending metal.
 
Also remember how many amp hours your battery is, look at your breakers and you'll be able to figure out how long you'll have power for.

A popping alternator breaker is probably one of the most common ones to pop, good to know its location (as well as autopilot breakers, flaps and a few others).

I would have killed the 430 and all the other stuff not needed.

Sounds like you did a good job though.
 
I did kill the 430... and am ordering a handheld radio. Any suggestions on a good one?
 
Before flying out of Stead I would have found out what caused the electrical issues and finally tripped the breaker. Not knowing the cause, worst case, you could have had an electrical fire or smoke on your return to Reno.

At the least, I would have phoned approach and the tower to inform them you might be NORDO at some point in your return to Reno.

Being so close to your departure point I might have left the plane, driven back home and had the problem diagnosed.
 
DesertNomad said:
I did kill the 430... and am ordering a handheld radio. Any suggestions on a good one?
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You did okay, on the ground with no bent metal. Not sure I'd go straight in NORDO but I've seen other folks do it.

On handheld, don't both with nav functions - just get voice only. Get something you can put batteries in rather than depending on the rechargeable pack it comes with. I have an Icom and had a Yaesu, either are fine. The Yeasu was stolen or I'd still have it. The antenna connection on the Icom is a bit easier to connect to external antenna, I had to find/buy adapters for the Yaesu.
 
Clark1961 said:
You did okay, on the ground with no bent metal. Not sure I'd go straight in NORDO but I've seen other folks do it.
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I only went NORDO after Oakland Center failed to respond to 4 or 5 of my calls... I figured that I was not transmitting.
 
One thing I can think of is just continue making calls into the blind. You might have been transmitting but could not hear anyone.
 
Zeldman said:
One thing I can think of is just continue making calls into the blind. You might have been transmitting but could not hear anyone.
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Yeah - good point - I should have told Oakland Center (in the blind) that I was heading for Stead, rather than just calling them up with "Oakland Center, Skyhawk N----" When I spoke with them later, they said they never heard me but that my transponder continued to work for a while.
 
RichNY said:
Before flying out of Stead I would have found out what caused the electrical issues and finally tripped the breaker. Not knowing the cause, worst case, you could have had an electrical fire or smoke on your return to Reno.
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I'm with Rich. I thought it was well-handled right up until the point where your instructor decided to take off again.
 
Ron Levy said:
I'm with Rich. I thought it was well-handled right up until the point where your instructor decided to take off again.
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My CFI did call the head of maintenance at the school/FBO and while I don't know the content of the call, the end result was that it was deemed ok to fly but it was suggested to do it with only COM2 powered on. During the preflight everything was fine and the battery was charging.
 
DesertNomad said:
My CFI did call the head of maintenance at the school/FBO and while I don't know the content of the call, the end result was that it was deemed ok to fly but it was suggested to do it with only COM2 powered on. During the preflight everything was fine and the battery was charging.
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I would have told the head of maintenance to come over and fly it back himself while I flew home the plane he came over in.
 
The purpose of today's flight was to evaluate a Bose A20 vs Lightspeed Zulu 2 headset. These were both brand new and we had never used them previously. They seemed to work fine (the Bose is better I think).

This may sound crazy, but is there any possible way that a faulty headset could cause an undue load or fault to the electrical system?
 
Not sure I would have done the straight in with no radio. Getting into the flow of traffic seems like a safer bet to me assuming the plane is flying fine.

No bent metal seems like you did just fine.
 
DFH65 said:
Not sure I would have done the straight in with no radio. Getting into the flow of traffic seems like a safer bet to me assuming the plane is flying fine.

No bent metal seems like you did just fine.
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The layout of Stead is such that everybody is using 8/26 (landing on 8 today). 14/32 is attached to 8/26 at the 32 numbers (actually a displaced threshold extends to 8/26) and extends 9000' to the northwest. Thus the downwind for 8/26 is still south of the 14 numbers.

I fly at Stead a lot and 14/32 is almost never in use. Before the radio died, I heard several planes using 8 (and as we were approaching 14, saw planes in the pattern for 8).

My reasoning was that by putting it down on the 14 numbers, we'd be at least 800' under even a wide downwind that others were using, and still 9000' from crossing 8/26. I felt it kept me as far from everyone else as possible. I had it stopped in under 1000' and took the first turn-off (which looking at Google Earth is 1080' from the 14 numbers.

The yellow is the traffic pattern for 8/26 which had at least 4 planes in it. I landed with the red line and took the first turn-off.

stead.jpg
 
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DesertNomad said:
I only went NORDO after Oakland Center failed to respond to 4 or 5 of my calls... I figured that I was not transmitting.
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What I meant was that I would fly the pattern rather than use a straight-in approach...
 
In thinking about this, I am glad the MiG 21 took off on 32 after we were already well down the taxiway (somewhere near the second turn-off). Had he been coming towards me after we were both already on the runway, it could have been more exciting (not a good thing).

The MiG parks near the 26 numbers so probably just didn't want to taxi all the way down to 8 and launching on 32 was easier.
 
I bought a handheld and learned a hard lesson that should have been obvious. YOU CAN'T hear them through their speakers...you must purchase an "optional" connector. The one I bought from Sporty's consistently gets good reviews...and also has emergency ILS and VOR capabilities. Here it is: http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/14807

Two other tips:

The transmit doesn't work very far on this unit, so you can hear, but might not be able to talk until really close to a towered airport...and...

Test the handheld every flight by using it to get ATIS before starting the engine. If you're a renter, this alone will save hobbs time and eventually pay for the unit.
 
On what you could have done better? One thing you might have considered is continuing to a towered airport. Because you were on flight following and 7600, it's highly likely a towered airport would be told you were coming and would clear traffic and let you land with light signals.

Going untowered is a crap shoot.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
On what you could have done better? One thing you might have considered is continuing to a towered airport. Because you were on flight following and 7600, it's highly likely a towered airport would be told you were coming and would clear traffic and let you land with light signals.

Going untowered is a crap shoot.
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Not so sure about that. My local grass strip has a lot of aircraft without radios. It gets a bit nerve wracking at times.

If not IFR, not sure but I might pick a non towered field over a towered one - all other things being equal. Closest airport would be my first pic. Then again, I have some old wiring .... Fire scares me the most.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
On what you could have done better? One thing you might have considered is continuing to a towered airport. Because you were on flight following and 7600, it's highly likely a towered airport would be told you were coming and would clear traffic and let you land with light signals.

Going untowered is a crap shoot.
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Of course, at the time I had no way of knowing if Oakland Center was seeing my 7600 code or if I had just vanished.

Reason #324 why I don't fly at night.
 
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Seems like you handled it fine.

There's debate as whether to attempt resetting breakers in flight and I'm mostly leaning toward no.

Especially the one that handles ALL of the current of the Alternator.

And most Cessna breakers, not being the pullable kind, once you put them back in, you can't get them back out.

I really don't want to push back in a breaker designed to pop for a short and then have it get stuck with a short somewhere, letting the magic smoke out of things.

Recommendation: If you're going to reset it, shed all the loads first. Avionics master (if equipped), off. All other electrical draws, off.

Then reset it and watch the gauge and the light.

That said, something is definitely wrong with that electrical system. The Alternator breaker popping on a Cessna should continuously illuminate the High Volt light. (See electrical diagram in your POH.)

I wouldn't have flown it until I could get a correct indication out of the High Volt light.

Testing can be accomplished by turning the alternator side of the master switch off at idle. The light should illuminate continuously with the alternator off.

Most likely culprit, is a bad voltage regulator. It controls the light. It also controls the field voltage for the alternator.

If not that, most Cessna master switches eventually die with internal parts breaking. They like to arc when they do that.

Either one is completely un-airworthy, to me after studying the Cessna electrical system. Fix it where it sits. A bad VR can fry more expensive gear. A bad master can burn.

We fought a flaky voltage regulator for a while. Replaced with the STC'd solid state variety, zero problems since.

It popped the damn alternator breaker on me during a takeoff roll once at a towered airport. Told the tower we needed to land.

I disagree with the assessment that you needed to go to somewhere with a tower. Just join the pattern and land normally next time, though. No need to use the other runway.
 
denverpilot said:
That said, something is definitely wrong with that electrical system. The Alternator breaker popping on a Cessna should continuously illuminate the High Volt light. (See electrical diagram in your POH.)
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The light on the panel is actually labeled "Low Voltage" and flickered a few times (it doesn't glow very bright and it was a bright sunny day here), then was on steady once we got close to landing.

I have re-read the electrical system section of the POH. It says that the over-voltage sensor should automatically remove the alternator field current. It goes on to say that toggling the master resets things and if the light does not re-illuminate, normal alternator charging has resumed.

Thanks for all the feedback.
 
DesertNomad said:
The light on the panel is actually labeled "Low Voltage" and flickered a few times (it doesn't glow very bright and it was a bright sunny day here), then was on steady once we got close to landing.



I have re-read the electrical system section of the POH. It says that the over-voltage sensor should automatically remove the alternator field current. It goes on to say that toggling the master resets things and if the light does not re-illuminate, normal alternator charging has resumed.



Thanks for all the feedback.
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Sorry. Had the label backward. Yes. Low Voltage.

That's one mode of the light. Low Voltage.

It'll illuminate for high voltage too, when the VR trips the alternator off line. It's really a mislabeled light in Cessnas.

(Pedantically if the VR trips the alternator field offline for high voltage then the voltage really does go low, so the light comes on. But the light lies a bit in that it may have been high voltage that started the chain. Someone tells their mechanic they had a Low Voltage light and they go looking for... things that cause Low Voltage. When they might need to be looking for the opposite.)

Flickering is a sign something really isn't working right. It typically will illuminate and stay that way. Flickering can be the VR failing (likely) or connections that have worked their way loose (much more rare but bad juju).

It's almost always the voltage regulator.

The original mechanical variety are a PITA. The new solid state ones are rock solid.

Oh well, they've probably fixed it by now. And I know the thread was on how you handled it. Not cheap Cessna parts from 1940s cars. ;)
 
I am not sure if the voltage went high first or not. I was looking out the window or at other instruments when my wife said "a red light just flashed". I looked over to see the needle indicating low and the light off. Shortly thereafter we turned around... no $100 hamburger today... it still cost me more than $100, but I didn't get a hamburger. :)

Fortunately it is not my airplane. Of course I'll ask about the voltage regulator... and if that is the issue see if they are replacing it with a solid state one.
 
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I had an intermittent alternator for a few years. I got so used to it I didn't pay much attention to it other than to turn lights off to preserve battery. I could run the comm all day on the battery with lights off.

A quick story. On my float check ride I had a comm failure. No transmit and no receive. I thought it was a test and I was fixin to fail because I had no idea what to do to return to Lake Hood. My DPE was initially unsure but eventually told me to fly inbound like I always did, enter the pattern, and watch for a light gun. I had a good view and no traffic that mattered so in I went. The sun was directly behind the tower on final and blindingly bright so it was impossible to see a light gun. The DPE told me to land. As soon as floats touched the water the comm came back to life. Static? Who knows. I notified tower that my radio was back and that I'd taxi to parking. The controller asked if I'd seen the green light okay. My DPE elbowed me and told me to say YES. All was good. I learned from that. In your scenario I'd have gone to a radar controlled facility to land. They'd recognize a no radio airplane and would make traffic adjustments to accommodate. Watch for the light gun and take the tower's instructions. These days with cell phones I'd call them in advance, too, to alert them. Think about adding tower phone numbers for your regular airports to your contacts or some other place where you can access them. It can't hurt.

I recently had an electrical event. High volt light on, digital instruments flashing, radio popping.... Off with the alternator, off with all load switches, back on with the alternator, back on with the comm to see if it responds, back off to protect it, then one by one back on and off with the other loads to try to isolate the offending circuit. In my case it was the light pulser. Simple solution. Leave it off and go about my day. With the bad circuit isolated everything else was normal. That's my story and may or may not apply to your issue. Every electrical problem is unique. My response was my best way to protect my equipment and continue my flight. But I'd had lots of practice with a problem alternator in the past so it didn't alarm me much. Your next event will be less disconcerting, too.

Merry Christmas!
 
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You did really well. Even the straight in approach was sensible given local knowledge; I might do the same at Watsonville, landing on 27, just because no one EVER does and I know I can easily stop before crossing 20, even with no flaps. At an unknown airport, fly a normal pattern.

The one thought that came to mind is, why didn't you just return to KRNO with the power off? Comms failure is an exception to the Class C/D comms rules. See 14 CFR 91.129(d)(2) and 14 CFR 91.130(a).
 
I have an Icom A24 handheld. It's my favorite "oh crap" product. I keep it in my bag or in the side pocket, always within reach. I have the adapter to hook it up to my headset. I intend to replace the loran antenna with a com antenna to plug into the portable as well. In the course of normal use, I use it for the ATIS before start-up. I also use it just to listen to the tower while milling around or tinkering with the plane.

I have never actually tried to use the portable in flight for comm or nav. I should definitely try using both in flight for practice. I don't want an electrical/radio failure to be my first time using it flight.
 
My experience listening to Sac Arrow transmitting from the ground at a POA event on his handheld, is that you're not going to succeed in establishing two way communications prior to entering Class C or D. They are just too weak.

I could barely hear him in the pattern. Outside it, no way.

As he was standing outside his aircraft, the usual problem of shielding by the aircraft skin was not a factor.
 
MAKG1 said:
You did really well. Even the straight in approach was sensible given local knowledge; I might do the same at Watsonville, landing on 27, just because no one EVER does and I know I can easily stop before crossing 20, even with no flaps. At an unknown airport, fly a normal pattern.

The one thought that came to mind is, why didn't you just return to KRNO with the power off? Comms failure is an exception to the Class C/D comms rules. See 14 CFR 91.129(d)(2) and 14 CFR 91.130(a).
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My reasons for not returning to Reno:

1. Reno was operating with only a single runway.

2. It was a really bright day and I thought it would be hard to see the light gun (I need to ask them to show it to me sometime).

3. I wasn't 100% sure of the rules on this, nor was I certain that my transponder was working.

4. Stead was closer and had a mostly unused 9000' runway as well as an avionics shop and was outside Class C.
 
I think your logic and decision was great. And also, now I'm going to ask the tower to hit me with some light gun signals. I want to see it so my first time isn't an emergency.


>
 
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MAKG1 said:
You did really well. Even the straight in approach was sensible given local knowledge; I might do the same at Watsonville, landing on 27, just because no one EVER does and I know I can easily stop before crossing 20, even with no flaps.a).
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Just yesterday most planes were using 20 and a CFI and student were using 27. It's actually not uncommon for that to happen.
 
The MiG uses 32 at Stead because the departure path doesn't go over any houses and they are concerned about noise out there (never mind that they bought homes next to a huge old Air Force Base).

8/26 was busy enough that I am not sure I would have entered the pattern even with a working radio - I have skipped landing there in the past when it was crazy busy. I think it was only the second time I have ever landed on 14 - it is very rare indeed to see people using 14, but I was definitely looking for departures on 32.

Had I missed the first turn-off, I would have been much more concerned since it is a long way to the second one. Hopefully the MiG pilot was looking down the runway.
 
I echo the concerns about flying the aircraft after the ALT breaker had popped, especially since you had observed veryt vigorous movement of the ammeter.

Once, a rental plane (another Cessna, as it happens) I was flying had that happening, followed (almost instantly) by smoke in the cabin; I was ready to put 'er down, but the smoke cleared immediately after switching off the Mater. It was, in fact, a wire which had chafed through and was shorting to ground. !
 
DesertNomad said:
I did kill the 430... and am ordering a handheld radio. Any suggestions on a good one?
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i have the yaesu 550l. I have zero complaints. The sound quality is crips, transmission and recieving is above standard. The size and easy to use is pretty much spot on for use in a ga cockpit.
 
Sounds like you handled it just fine outside not checking the breakers and resetting the master switch. It's like rebooting a computer, first thing you do when you have trouble.
 
Henning said:
Sounds like you handled it just fine outside not checking the breakers and resetting the master switch. It's like rebooting a computer, first thing you do when you have trouble.
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Yeah - the POH said to reset things for an over voltage but not for an under voltage. Of course being an early 70s POH, it is pretty light on information. I learned a lot about the electrical system with this event.... I learn stuff on almost every flight... some more than others. :)
 
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