El Cap

[RJM62]

Kind of on the fence here.

Given the choice, I think I'd prefer to buy computers that were easily serviceable.

My 2008 MacBook Pro is, and I upgraded both the memory and the hard drive myself.

But then again, none of the iPads we've owned are easily owner serviceable. New Macs have gone that way as well. On The MacCast they said the new Macs even have their memory modules soldered in.

But as Bob said, Macs and iDevices tend to be pretty durable. None of our iPhones or iPads have ever had hardware issues, nor has Karen's 2013 iMac.

When deciding between a Vizio or a Samsung TV, I don't think user serviceability enters into the equation for most buyers. I think the same is true for iPhones and iPads and, for the general consumer, Macs.

The Mac Mini I'm getting soon will be almost impossible to upgrade, so the general wisdom is to buy all the memory and storage you think you'll ever need, plus some. I can't imagine ever needing more than a 1TB hard drive, but for $100 I'm going to 2TB to be safe. Similarly springing for 16GB memory.

Like I said, if Apple offered a "hobbyist" model, I'd probably spring for that. But they don't, and I think their continued sales and profit success makes their choices seem like wise ones.

The difference is that televisions neither store important data nor perform other other important work. When they **** the bed, you get a new one. If you used the right plastic to buy it, you don't even have to pay for it. Maybe you miss a couple of TV shows at the worst, but life goes on without pain or lost income.

Nothing that people use to make a living or do other important work should be deliberately designed to inconvenience the user for weeks on end if it breaks.

Rich

 

[Bob Noel]

The difference is that televisions neither store important data nor perform other other important work. When they **** the bed, you get a new one. If you used the right plastic to buy it, you don't even have to pay for it. Maybe you miss a couple of TV shows at the worst, but life goes on without pain or lost income.

Rich

well, as I'm sure you know, backing up the data is really the important thing.

If system availability is really that important to someone's work, than the typical pc with windoze hardly qualifies as having sufficient system availability.

T
Nothing that people use to make a living or do other important work should be deliberately designed to inconvenience the user for weeks on end if it breaks.

Rich

a bit of exaggeration, especially considering the reliability of the product.

 

[FastEddieB]

well, as I'm sure you know, backing up the data is really the important thing.

Between my Time Machine backup and my SuperDuper! bootable weekly backup, if and when my MacBook Pro takes a dump, I can be back up and running in the time it takes me to score a new Mac of some description.

The new Mac Mini is a preemptive strike - 7 years on my MacBook Pro is stretching it a bit.

 

[Stewartb]

The new MacBook Pros use flash memory instead of spinning hard drives. Big improvement but it isn't expandable so get the RAM and storage you need when you buy it. With the availability of affordable multi TB external storage I'll never have a problem.

 

[Everskyward]

Nothing that people use to make a living or do other important work should be deliberately designed to inconvenience the user for weeks on end if it breaks.

I also think that "weeks on end" is a bit of an exaggeration. When my iMac's hard drive went out it took a couple days to get an appointment and I left it there another few days to replace the HD. They told me I could walk in but that store always seems busy. Granted, it's in what you would probably call an "affluent suburb". I will do very simple DIY tasks (I have added RAM to the same computer) but I was not about to replace the HD. I thought they were pretty reasonable too, about $150 for the drive and $40 labor. I was expecting more.

 

[Anymouse]

What is the hardware failure rate of a Mac? I don't care how hard it is to fix something unless it is actually something likely to break.

Couldn't tell you the rate, but in 8 or so years of owning a Mac, I haven't felt the need for stocking any replacement parts.

 

[Stewartb]

Hardware failure in Macs is MUCH less frequent than in Windows machines. I work in professional programs that are Windows-only and I do better on a Mac running Windows 7 in Parallels than on the most current and powerful Lenovo and Dell machines I've bought for myself and my employees. That includes machine performance and reliability. Maybe as Windows machines adopt solid state memory their failure rate will decline but I'm not spending my money to find out.

 

[RJM62]

Hardware failure in Macs is MUCH less frequent than in Windows machines. I work in professional programs that are Windows-only and I do better on a Mac running Windows 7 in Parallels than on the most current and powerful Lenovo and Dell machines I've bought for myself and my employees. That includes machine performance and reliability. Maybe as Windows machines adopt solid state memory their failure rate will decline but I'm not spending my money to find out.

What exactly does the OS have to do with hardware failure rates or whether the manufacturer chooses to use an SSD?

Just FYI, SSD drives use the SATA interface and have been supported by the PC platform and Windows for as long as the drives have been on the market. The reason their adoption has been slow is because until recently, they simply were too expensive for most folks. It has nothing to do with Windows. My Acer AspireONE netbook that I acquired in 2008 has an SSD and originally came with WindowsXP. (It's running CentOS now.)

I get that I'm talking to a bunch of fanbois, but I still find it hard to take seriously anyone who defends gluing a computer together to make it more difficult to fix when it breaks. Low failure rate or not, it's simply ridiculous. It's like an airplane manufacturer saying that their aircraft are so reliable that they're going to weld the cowlings shut. It serves no purpose other than to screw inconvenience the consumer.

Intentionally designing any machine to be difficult to repair is a senseless policy no matter how much you like the machine or the platform; and frankly, I think you all sound pretty comical trying to defend the practice, fanbois or no fanbois.

Rich

 

[Bob Noel]

What exactly does the OS have to do with hardware failure rates or whether the manufacturer chooses to use an SSD?

Not much (well, the SSD will likely have a lower failure rate than spinning media).

Weren't you the guy whining about the Apple hardware?

I get that I'm talking to a bunch of fanbois, but I still find it hard to take seriously anyone who defends gluing a computer together to make it more difficult to fox when it breaks. Low failure rate or not, it's simply ridiculous. It's like an airplane manufacturer saying that their aircraft are so reliable that they're going to weld the cowlings shut. It serves no purpose other than to screw inconvenience the consumer.

Intentionally designing any machine to be difficult to repair is a senseless policy no matter how much you like the machine or the platform; and frankly, I think you all sound pretty comical trying to defend the practice, fanbois or no fanbois.

Rich

<sigh> I knew it wouldn't take long for someone to trot out the "fanboy" BS.

Can't speak for the others, but if you knew me, you would be able to tell I'm hardly a mac zealot (e.g., I dispise the itunes/appstore paradigm).

anyway, bottomline: what you call "difficult to repair" could be considered more efficient to manufacture. Your obsession with repairability of a relatively reliable (low failure rate) piece of hardware is not only comical but also quite misguided.

 

[RJM62]

Not much (well, the SSD will likely have a lower failure rate than spinning media).

Weren't you the guy whining about the Apple hardware?

Au contraire. I'm not terribly fond of the Mac GUI, but that's just personal preference. I'd get used to it. The hardware is and always has been top-notch.

But that doesn't mean it never breaks.

<sigh> I knew it wouldn't take long for someone to trot out the "fanboy" BS.

Can't speak for the others, but if you knew me, you would be able to tell I'm hardly a mac zealot (e.g., I dispise the itunes/appstore paradigm).

I know little about that. I'll have to look into it. Frankly, I don't know whether I'd need their "App Store" anyway. The only software I would need are the Adobe stuff, OpenOffice, and literally any mail client other than Apple's. I'm also not interested in putting anything on their "cloud." Unless the store is needed for things like software updates, I doubt I'd ever go there.

anyway, bottomline: what you call "difficult to repair" could be considered more efficient to manufacture.

Microsoft used to call bugs "features." They were still bugs.

Also, it seems pretty inefficient to do things like solder the RAM to the mobo unless you only sell the machine in one configuration. With more than one configuration, if you guess wrong on the sales numbers, you run short of one board and long on the other because you can't just pop in or remove a stick of RAM. The more possible configurations, the more potentially problematic this becomes.

Your obsession with repairability of a relatively reliable (low failure rate) piece of hardware is not only comical but also quite misguided.

You call it a comical, misguided obsession. I call it common sense. I am reluctant to purchase a revenue-producing tool knowing that any failure of that tool will necessitate hundreds of miles of driving, days (more likely weeks, where I live) of downtime, and lost revenue during that downtime, simply because the manufacturer deliberately made simple repairs difficult by gluing the box together, soldering RAM to the mobo, and so forth.

If it were a toy, I wouldn't give a ****. But for me it would be a money-making tool, and any malfunction would disrupt my revenue stream and could affect my clients' businesses.

So unless Apple can guarantee same-day repair -- something I could do myself for 95+ percent of problems that occur on a PC platform (or even a Mac that's not locked down) -- I think it's a perfectly rational consideration, not an obsession.

But hey, sau-seege his own.

Personally, I think a Hackintosh is sounding better and better.

Rich

 

[denverpilot]

I don't have a problem with Apple's repair stuff. Multiple options, as needs dictate...

Backup and restore to a different Mac (can be quite problematic on Windows).

Take Mac to an Authorized Service Center that is NOT an Apple Store that has a reason to have faster service.

Pick only Mac models that aren't completely glued closed (difficult now, wasn't difficult before Tim the Doofus took over from Jobs).

 

[Stewartb]

What exactly does the OS have to do with hardware failure rates or whether the manufacturer chooses to use an SSD?

Just FYI, SSD drives use the SATA interface and have been supported by the PC platform and Windows for as long as the drives have been on the market. The reason their adoption has been slow is because until recently, they simply were too expensive for most folks. It has nothing to do with Windows. My Acer AspireONE netbook that I acquired in 2008 has an SSD and originally came with WindowsXP. (It's running CentOS now.)

I get that I'm talking to a bunch of fanbois, but I still find it hard to take seriously anyone who defends gluing a computer together to make it more difficult to fix when it breaks. Low failure rate or not, it's simply ridiculous. It's like an airplane manufacturer saying that their aircraft are so reliable that they're going to weld the cowlings shut. It serves no purpose other than to screw inconvenience the consumer.

Intentionally designing any machine to be difficult to repair is a senseless policy no matter how much you like the machine or the platform; and frankly, I think you all sound pretty comical trying to defend the practice, fanbois or no fanbois.

Rich

Just reporting the facts. I have 6 macs and about 20 windows machines in the family business. The failures of the windows machines is as predictable as the sun rising. The Macs just keep going. It's nothing short of amazing how much better the longevity has been in my own stable of machines. Your experience may differ.

 

[FastEddieB]

It serves no purpose other than to screw inconvenience the consumer.

To be fair, might they have not looked at socketed connectors for memory and drives and found they were the source of many malfunctions, due to corrosion or poor seating or whatever? And consumers installing defective or improperly spec'd components and then blaming Apple?

Some of these decisions may be driven by both ease and cost of manufacture and reliability concerns. I have never felt "screwed" by my inability to open and futz with my iPhones or iPads, because I've never had the need to.

The market will decide, and apparently you are not the market for Apple products regardless.

 

[RJM62]

I don't have a problem with Apple's repair stuff. Multiple options, as needs dictate...

Backup and restore to a different Mac (can be quite problematic on Windows).

Take Mac to an Authorized Service Center that is NOT an Apple Store that has a reason to have faster service.

Pick only Mac models that aren't completely glued closed (difficult now, wasn't difficult before Tim the Doofus took over from Jobs).

There's actually an Authorized Service Center 50 miles from me -- not far by standards up here -- that seems decent. But the owner told me that they're so busy that there's currently a two- to three-week waiting list just for an appointment. The next-nearest locations would all be in Connecticut. They have long wait times, too (though not quite as long).

Then again, I suppose money might shorten the wait time. It usually does. It certainly did for me. It even got me out of bed a few times to do post-midnight emergencies at local hotels.

In case it's not coming through, I'm seriously pondering making the change. I just have this comical, misguided obsession with making sure that I can get the thing promptly repaired if need be, as well as a bit of resentment that I should even have to consider that problem being a guy who repaired computers for a living for many years.

Rich

 

[Jaybird180]

What exactly does the OS have to do with hardware failure rates or whether the manufacturer chooses to use an SSD?

Just FYI, SSD drives use the SATA interface and have been supported by the PC platform and Windows for as long as the drives have been on the market. The reason their adoption has been slow is because until recently, they simply were too expensive for most folks. It has nothing to do with Windows. My Acer AspireONE netbook that I acquired in 2008 has an SSD and originally came with WindowsXP. (It's running CentOS now.)

I get that I'm talking to a bunch of fanbois, but I still find it hard to take seriously anyone who defends gluing a computer together to make it more difficult to fix when it breaks. Low failure rate or not, it's simply ridiculous. It's like an airplane manufacturer saying that their aircraft are so reliable that they're going to weld the cowlings shut. It serves no purpose other than to screw inconvenience the consumer.

Intentionally designing any machine to be difficult to repair is a senseless policy no matter how much you like the machine or the platform; and frankly, I think you all sound pretty comical trying to defend the practice, fanbois or no fanbois.

Rich

Rich
You're likely to be "seasoned" enough to remember when computers used physical switches before they were miniaturized in ICs and as such, the OS interfaced (and still does) with the HW. Nowadays we tend to think of the OS as the UI and forget that it's much more. Does OS matter- ya bet.

If that doesn't convince you- look up some of the destructive coding that exists; the ability to actually damage hardware with malware. Remember Stuxnet. LoL, I remember CMOS-A

 

[masloki]

The last unreliable macs I had were iBooks that de-soldered their video chips. Happens to game consoles too. Since then, in my small fleet at work, needed a mobo swap on one (two days) and hard drive swap a few times (about an hour). A few others all within a day or two, not to mention some cases of free work still performed after warranty had expired. If you need same day repair, there is a shop in New York a google away. Honestly, even the non-repairable stuff (pentalobe screw driver BS) I was able to grab parts off of eBay and swap it in, if the time and money seemed worth it. But, my failure rate is so low that it was usually past time for the machine to die and I could get a replacement machine same day, booted from a backup in hours.

 

[Jaybird180]

I have a newer iMac with Time Machine going to my 2-bay mirrored (with spare) Synology Diskstation. I guess I should run a restore test to make sure it actually works - Duh

 

[RJM62]

Rich
You're likely to be "seasoned" enough to remember when computers used physical switches before they were miniaturized in ICs and as such, the OS interfaced (and still does) with the HW. Nowadays we tend to think of the OS as the UI and forget that it's much more. Does OS matter- ya bet.

If that doesn't convince you- look up some of the destructive coding that exists; the ability to actually damage hardware with malware. Remember Stuxnet. LoL, I remember CMOS-A

Well, sure, But I doubt there's anything about Windows itself that is harmful to the hardware at this point. I think Mac hardware is more reliable because they use better components to begin with.

Most models in most mass-market PC makers' lines are made with cheap **** hardware. You have to go very high in their product lines to find truly good components. I can't even tell you how many lower-end Dell Dimension mobos I replaced because of bad caps or fried chipsets, or how many add-on NICs, modems, and other peripherals I had to install when those integrated components went south. But their high-end stuff was solid.

I've bought motherboards for home-made PCs that cost as much as some complete, low-end Dell, HP, Compaq, etc. PCs. I'm not talking server boards, mind you, but high-end desktop boards. If I'm going to skimp, it'll be on a drab case, not the parts that do the work.

In any case, Apple hardware and software are top-quality stuff. No argument from me there. But even top-quality stuff sometimes breaks. If I'm going to transition, I want to be prepared for any eventuality.

A lot depends on whether MS comes to their senses regarding the objectionable aspects of Win10, though. I've heard rumors that they make back off on the forced updates, for example. Nothing definite yet. Just rumors.

Rich

 

[RJM62]

Okay, I talked to another Authorized Service Center (also in CT, a long but doable trip for me), and he said that their turnaround is usually next-day, assuming that the client is willing to pay for overnight shipping on parts not in stock. If it's something obvious like a fan that's starting to go, the part can be ordered first and the visit scheduled when it arrives.

If they're crazy busy, he also offers "expedited service" (basically, jumping the line) for another $99.00, but it's rarely necessary other than during back-to-school or graduation seasons or the weeks surrounding Christmas.

That's more along the lines of what I like to hear. I have no problem paying extra for priority handling over non-urgent cases. I did the same thing when I was in that business. Money talks.

Rich

 

[denverpilot]

I figured you'd find something more suited to your business style than the consumer-oriented service at the Apple Store.

Don't completely rule out trips to there, though. Not sure how far you said one was for you, but I've had LOTS of stuff just flat out replaced by then when you behave like a nice person and don't try to tell them how to do their jobs, just answer their questions and explain what's wrong in plain English.

I suspect they get so many dolts trying to describe simple problems that they really appreciate someone who can explain exactly what's wrong and they can finish you up quickly. They have a horrible quota system from the two I've gotten to admit it.

It's way easier to just hand you a refurb if you say you have a proper backup at home and you're willing to do the work yourself, than for them to have to hold your hand through the process.

One problem I had, the guy asked me to look at some setting on my iPhone that may be related to the problem on the laptop. He figured it out and fixed the settings and explained why it was doing whatever dumb thing it was doing and then said, "wait here a sec".

He goes to the back and returns with an iPhone box. I'm wondering why.

He says, "See this tiny crack near the charge port on the iPhone?" I looked and had a really hard time even finding it but yet it was there...

"That's a manufacturing defect. You need a new phone." Types the magic incantations into their store system and says "you can restore it from your backup on the laptop, right?" ...

"Yeah, did one before I came in before I did the backup of the laptop."

"Perfect. If you want to do it here we can set it up over there with a power supply and let it run while you shop, or..."

"Nah, I got it. I'll do it at home this afternoon."

"Cool. Thanks for coming in!"

Thanking me for replacing my phone. Seriously? I couldn't even see the silly crack.

And the phone was nearly out of warranty coverage anyway and had been dropped a billion times. Not their fault. Manufacturing defect my eye.

Dude was just being nice to me because I wasn't a jerk to him.

 

[RJM62]

Yeah, I get that. Fortunately for me, having dealt with enough a-holes who got hostile with me when I was trying to help them solve their PC problems (which often were of their own creation), I've mastered the art of being the exact opposite when I'm the one getting the support. I've gotten a lot of extras and freebies that way, too.

The guy I spoke to at the most recent service center I called definitely spoke my language. We hit it right off. In fact, if I do decide to buy a Mac, Ill drive to CT to make the purchase through him. I like to early on kindle good relationships with people I may need in the future.

The next step in my decision-making process is to find someone I know who uses the Adobe software I use on a Mac so I can get a feel for how it works. That won't be hard, but it will necessitate a trip, probably to The City. But I'm about due to visit some people there, anyway.

Of course, there's also the chance that MS may come to their senses regarding the spyware and forced updates, and thus defuse my annoyance at them. Those are really my biggest objections to 10. I really don't have a problem with Windows itself. Since Win7, it's been absolutely trouble-free for me; and even before Win7, I knew and could avoid its pitfalls.

Even WinNT/2K were rock solid for me. They just were somewhat limited in their functionality, particularly with regard to multimedia work, because of the lack of VXD support. XP was a start in unifying the functionality of the 9x and NT lines (well, actually Me was the first attempt, but that was an absolute disaster), but MS didn't really get it right until Win7.

In truth, my annoyance at MS with regard to 10 has to do with a shift of attitude on MS's part more so than anything I couldn't work my way around. I already make multiple, redundant backups and clones of my systems and I know how to disable the spyware. I just don't like the fact that MS is becoming another Google or Facebook whose business model includes selling their users' lives to the highest bidder. I also don't like MS assuming a paternalistic role regarding updates for which experience clearly shows they're ill-suited. Too many of their initial update releases break stuff for me to unhesitatingly let them update my system without notice.

My policy with regard to updates, with the occasional exception of updates affecting zero-day security exploits, is to wait a bit and see if other people report problems with the updates as relates to the software that I depend on. They do cause problems often enough that I've found it prudent to wait. Very often they'll release an update to the initial update that fixes the problems a few days later.

I also refresh the clones before any updates just in case they hose the system in a way that I can't quickly fix. The clone drives are offline except when I update them to protect them against cryptolocker-type exploits, so I need to know when updates are going to be applied so I can manually refresh them. I also have incremental images and data backups stashed in multiple places, but a fresh clone is the easiest and fastest way to restore. Keeping it safe requires it to be offline most of the time.

I've also looked into and abandoned the Hackintosh idea. That, from all I've read, is absolutely not the way to go if what you want is a trouble-free experience. Yes, I could replace failed hardware myself; but software-wise, keeping a Hackintosh system working properly requires perpetual hacking. It would completely defeat the purpose of what I want to do, which is to avoid downtime. It might be nice for hobbyists, but not for a production machine.

I feel comfortable now that I can make the switch to Mac if MS continues to **** me off. I also may find that I like the experience using DW, Fireworks, and Illustrator on Mac enough that I switch just for that reason. Finally, I'm lurking on the Adobe support boards for Mac to get a feel for how often problems arise using CS6 on that platform and how quickly they're resolved.

I have a hunch that what I'm going to do is offload my working data to a local Linux server (maybe using OwnCloud, which I've been itching to play with anyway), buy a Mac, and join both my Windows and Mac machines to the server. That way I can still work in Windows on rush jobs when I don't have time to fart around learning how to do the same things in Mac that I can do in Windows. It will help ease the transition.

Rich

 

[FastEddieB]

I've also had very positive experiences with the Apple Genius Bar.

I had a battery in my several-year-old MacBook Pro begin to swell, to the point that it was interfering with the trackpad. Well out of warranty, they ended up just handing me a new one, saving me about $129. I had hoped for some allowance maybe, but that went above and beyond.

A bit off topic, but Otterbox is another company that stands behind their products. Had the rubber sleeve on the Defender case on my iPad Mini get stretched out. Well beyond the 1 year warranty, I wrote them to see if I could buy just the outer sleeve. Result? A new case got shipped the same day (yesterday).

In both cases, I obviously pay for that kind of customer service in the purchase price of the product. Regardless, it's what keeps me loyal to a brand, and kudos to them.

 

[Jaybird180]

Yeah, I get that. Fortunately for me, having dealt with enough a-holes who got hostile with me when I was trying to help them solve their PC problems (which often were of their own creation), I've mastered the art of being the exact opposite when I'm the one getting the support. I've gotten a lot of extras and freebies that way, too.

The guy I spoke to at the most recent service center I called definitely spoke my language. We hit it right off. In fact, if I do decide to buy a Mac, Ill drive to CT to make the purchase through him. I like to early on kindle good relationships with people I may need in the future.

The next step in my decision-making process is to find someone I know who uses the Adobe software I use on a Mac so I can get a feel for how it works. That won't be hard, but it will necessitate a trip, probably to The City. But I'm about due to visit some people there, anyway.

Of course, there's also the chance that MS may come to their senses regarding the spyware and forced updates, and thus defuse my annoyance at them. Those are really my biggest objections to 10. I really don't have a problem with Windows itself. Since Win7, it's been absolutely trouble-free for me; and even before Win7, I knew and could avoid its pitfalls.

Even WinNT/2K were rock solid for me. They just were somewhat limited in their functionality, particularly with regard to multimedia work, because of the lack of VXD support. XP was a start in unifying the functionality of the 9x and NT lines (well, actually Me was the first attempt, but that was an absolute disaster), but MS didn't really get it right until Win7.

In truth, my annoyance at MS with regard to 10 has to do with a shift of attitude on MS's part more so than anything I couldn't work my way around. I already make multiple, redundant backups and clones of my systems and I know how to disable the spyware. I just don't like the fact that MS is becoming another Google or Facebook whose business model includes selling their users' lives to the highest bidder. I also don't like MS assuming a paternalistic role regarding updates for which experience clearly shows they're ill-suited. Too many of their initial update releases break stuff for me to unhesitatingly let them update my system without notice.

My policy with regard to updates, with the occasional exception of updates affecting zero-day security exploits, is to wait a bit and see if other people report problems with the updates as relates to the software that I depend on. They do cause problems often enough that I've found it prudent to wait. Very often they'll release an update to the initial update that fixes the problems a few days later.

I also refresh the clones before any updates just in case they hose the system in a way that I can't quickly fix. The clone drives are offline except when I update them to protect them against cryptolocker-type exploits, so I need to know when updates are going to be applied so I can manually refresh them. I also have incremental images and data backups stashed in multiple places, but a fresh clone is the easiest and fastest way to restore. Keeping it safe requires it to be offline most of the time.

I've also looked into and abandoned the Hackintosh idea. That, from all I've read, is absolutely not the way to go if what you want is a trouble-free experience. Yes, I could replace failed hardware myself; but software-wise, keeping a Hackintosh system working properly requires perpetual hacking. It would completely defeat the purpose of what I want to do, which is to avoid downtime. It might be nice for hobbyists, but not for a production machine.

I feel comfortable now that I can make the switch to Mac if MS continues to **** me off. I also may find that I like the experience using DW, Fireworks, and Illustrator on Mac enough that I switch just for that reason. Finally, I'm lurking on the Adobe support boards for Mac to get a feel for how often problems arise using CS6 on that platform and how quickly they're resolved.

I have a hunch that what I'm going to do is offload my working data to a local Linux server (maybe using OwnCloud, which I've been itching to play with anyway), buy a Mac, and join both my Windows and Mac machines to the server. That way I can still work in Windows on rush jobs when I don't have time to fart around learning how to do the same things in Mac that I can do in Windows. It will help ease the transition.

Rich

Can you remember the time when a computer was used to DO work and now the computer IS the work?

 

[RJM62]

Can you remember the time when a computer was used to DO work and now the computer IS the work?

Meh. Some are still relatively trouble-free. I have Linux servers that run years between reboots and require minimal care. Even Windows has been trouble-free for me since Win7 except for some of the updates.

The thing is that I have spent most of my adult life tending to sick and misbehaving computers and other electronic equipment, and I know from experience how many and myriad are the things that can go wrong. So yeah, I do go overboard planning around those potential failures, no matter how unlikely they are.

What it comes down to is that I like computers and other electronic devices. I just don't trust them. Not in the least.

Rich

 

[Everskyward]

The thing is that I have spent most of my adult life tending to sick and misbehaving computers and other electronic equipment, and I know from experience how many and myriad are the things that can go wrong. So yeah, I do go overboard planning around those failures, no matter how unlikely they are.

What it comes down to is that I like computers and other electronic devices. I just don't trust them. Not in the least.

You, and some others here, have a much different perspective than the average user. Do I tinker with my computer hardware or software to make it do exactly what I want it to do? No. I learn how to do what is presented to me by the computer. From observation, I would say I'm more willing than some to try new things while using the computer, but I do not want to mess too much with the way it operates in the background.

 

[masloki]

Can't praise OwnCloud enough. Was too easy to setup on some handy Ubuntu instance, just need the usual AMP services. All of the updates have been clean too. Desktop clients have been good, being really quick to pick up the changes. And for the machines that don't have the client, upload/download with drag and drop via browser has been flawless. Great way to share files with clients too. Just get your SSL certificate. IIRC file versioning is baked in for cases of user error.

 

[FastEddieB]

Went ahead and pulled the trigger on a Mac Mini yesterday.

Pretty much a preventive strike against an imagined future failure of my 2008 MacBook Pro. Also I notice an obvious speed difference when I get on Karen's 2013 iMac, so I should see a pretty big speed bump as well.

I also have a vague suspicion it may be my last "desktop" computer purchase - I see the iPad Pro and Microsoft Surface Book as harbingers of the future.

As such, I went pretty much "whole hog" in order to "future proof" it as much as possible.

$999 for the top model

$200 for 3.0GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7 (Turbo Boost up to 3.5GHz) up from 2.8GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i5 (Turbo Boost up to 3.3GHz)

$200 for 16GB 1600MHz LPDDR3 SDRAM (up from 8GB)

$100 for 2TB Fusion Drive (up from 1TB)

Put me at $1,499, plus $129 for a Magic Trackpad 2.

Not inexpensive, but if it lasts me the same 7 or 8 years my MacBook Pro has, I think its worth it.

Should arrive in a week or so. When it does, I'll report back on El Capitan.

 

[denverpilot]

Since the thread is about El Cap, I guess I could update and say I've been on it since day one one one machine and two others followed a week later. No significant problems other than one machine trashing its boot process during install, but a Time Machine backup was available and a restore and reinstall went fine.

 

[FastEddieB]

Got my new Mac Mini set up yesterday, and its gone more smoothly than I expected:

It's the rectangular silver box on the left. I had the smaller display in storage and had recently upgraded to the larger one. The larger is hooked up via HDMI and the smaller via one of the Thunderbolt connectors. I also had the wired keyboard tuned away - all I bought extra was the new Magic Trackpad 2.

Even coming from Mountain Lion the transition has been easy. The basic user interface is the same, with some subtle improvements, but most of the new features hidden just below the surface.

So far, so good. And with the Fusion drive everything seems much snappier.

 

[Anymouse]

Cool!

I still haven't upgraded. I'm waiting until I get back to the states in December, just in case there's a major hiccup.

 

[denverpilot]

So far, so good. And with the Fusion drive everything seems much snappier.

Just make sure you have a good Time Machine backup if you went Fusion.

It's two separate drives mashed into one by the OS. Quite literally, doubles your chances of a catastrophic failure and data loss, since losing either drive trashes the entire overlying file system.

 

[FastEddieB]

Just make sure you have a good Time Machine backup if you went Fusion.

About to set that up.

My habit is to have a Time Machine backup running, and an additional weekly SuperDuper bootable backup stored seperately. And a seperate monthly backup to yet another hard drive of really critical financial data.

Plus my really important stuff also live in the cloud, photos in Google Photo and data in Dropbox.

Think I'm pretty much covered!

 

[denverpilot]

About to set that up.



My habit is to have a Time Machine backup running, and an additional weekly SuperDuper bootable backup stored seperately. And a seperate monthly backup to yet another hard drive of really critical financial data.



Plus my really important stuff also live in the cloud, photos in Google Photo and data in Dropbox.



Think I'm pretty much covered!

I'm not totally sure on this, but make sure to look up how to repair the virtual fusion drive itself when you have to replace one of the physical drives it lives on, if you're using something like SuperDuper to restore.

I assume there's a million ways to do it (GUI with Disk Utility, command line, whatever) but you'll need to know how to do that part by hand to restore from a copy to it.

Or probably if you install the working new physical drive there's some magic in the installer that will set it up for you. Don't know.

I'm not a huge fan of virtualizing a drive like that with what is essentially a RAID 0 with a FIFO buffer on the SSD. Makes failure more likely. I've just been slamming Samsung SSDs into the Macs that don't have them and they're getting so cheap it's a no-brainer.

The 500GB EVO 850 with a five year warranty is now below $0.30/GB and the 1TB is about $0.33/GB. SSDs are way too cheap to ignore now. And you don't have to use Apple's re-branded ones.

 

[flhrci]

And you don't have to use Apple's re-branded ones.

I can only imagine the savings over buying the Apple version. Probably quite a lot but for some people, the Apple name is what is important and they fall right into line and buy the next Apple product they think they need.

David

 

[FastEddieB]

...the Apple name is what is important and they fall right into line and buy the next Apple product they think they need.

David

Yes...must buy Apple...

 

[gkainz]

QFT X a bazillion

Greater truth has never been spoken, and greater anguish never experienced when failure occurs here.

 

[denverpilot]

I can only imagine the savings over buying the Apple version. Probably quite a lot but for some people, the Apple name is what is important and they fall right into line and buy the next Apple product they think they need.

David

Well Apple has a back and forth fettish for putting non standard hardware in their machines. Right now, there are some machines you can't open up (again) and if you do, standard stuff won't fit in them. It's round three or four of that for Apple and it's always a losing game for them. If it continues long enough that I need new machines (currently running an older i7 MacBook Pro and two late-2011 Minis specifically because I can open up all three of them and change components like the SSD drives), they won't be getting my money.

Cook has no vision or apparently any knowledge of Apple's history in this regard, and will eventually screw it all up enough that he'll be tossed. Maybe he'll re-release the Cube. Hahaha.