Early c210 gear doors don’t retract. Switch maybe?

Lowe Approach

Lowe Approach

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Lowe Approach
solved. See down below.
I’ve got a 62’ Cessna 21b that has about 10 landing now for the first time in 14 years. Really well maintained and super clean but stuff gets old especially if you don’t use it.

yesterday the gear worked great on a couple of circuits around the patch but then the gear doors failed to retract and the handle wouldn’t return to neutral and no amber up light. So I cycled to down, all good there with a green light.

repeated that about 4 or 5 times with no joy on the doors retracting. Fluid is full.
So I’m thinking micro switch is bad or loose wire in the sequence switches. But no clue where to start looking to diagnose.

anyone have an idea what switch or switched I should have a gander at for this issue?

thanks in advance.
 
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Quite sure I still have my SM for that year.

There are multiple foldout pages with color coded system drawings in various

conditions.

As Capt said you really NEED this to diagnose.

Do you have jacks?

I believe they did have issues with a Door Solenoid Valve but don’t touch

w/o SM.
 
Check the microswitch by the gear handle. My old 63 C-210 had this problem also. You can often fix the problem just by spraying the switch with a lubricating contact cleaner or even WD-40. Spray through the push button and exercise the switch. In fact you should do the same to ALL of your gear switches every year. Switches are MECHANICAL devices and need lubrication. In fact nearly all switches should be lubricated.
 
I guess taking it to a shop with an experienced A&P who has the tools and manuals is out of the question? Best to experiment with some home brewed remedies that may or may not work, and could possibly cause a situation even worse. :rolleyes: :eek:
 
1. If the doors don't close, it means the door close solenoid isn't getting power. But that's only part of the story.

2. If the handle won't reset, it's because of the problem in #1.

3. If your up lock light won't come on, then you either have an up lock switch problem (bad, or poorly adjusted--there are three) or a bad connection (wiring). Start by looking at the terminal board and connections to the NLG up lock switch (the one on the hook in the NLG well) it's the most likely of the three to give you a problem. (any problem listed in #3 will cause both #1 & #2).

You can also check the up lock switches that are on the MLG up lock (in the back, front side of the MLG wheel wells). With a helper, you should be able to press all three with your thumb and make the up light illuminate without any hydraulic power applied to the bird (if they are working correctly). Of course, after you manually open the doors with the hand pump.

With the B-model system, the up/down lights and up/down lock switches operate basically independent of the powerpack.

I'd love to fix it for you, but I moved to Florida. I know the B-model gear like the back of my hand.

V/r,

-Dana
 
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I remember having that happen in a 1966 or 67 C-210, but it was a long time ago. Seems like it had something to do with the hydraulic sequencing and a solenoid. I agree with the advice to see an A&P with experience on old 210s.
 
Lowe; I have my SM for your aircraft available if you need a copy of something.

If so; PM me with your e-dress.


AMT Schools do not teach “ Ancient Cessna 210 Landing Gear Systems”.

It is a very complicated system for a single engine aircraft.

Most shops will not invest in the Hydraulic Mule , special equipment and

TRAINING to properly service these aircraft.

Finding someone like ThomasDR that knows these aircraft is not easy.

Hence; it may cost you a lot for someone to learn your model.

Flying an airplane with known issues to maintenance location is not a good idea.


Some of the causes mentioned here are also listed in the Troubleshooting Section

of the 210 Manual.

It may help if you can identify the culprit.

That would enable ordering parts or gathering equipment IF an A & P has to

travel to you.

That “Troubleshooting” does not include fixing, repairing , adjusting , modifying

or “making better” in any way.
 
thomasdr72 said:
1. If the doors don't close, it means the door close solenoid isn't getting power. But that's only part of the story.

2. If the handle won't reset, it's because of the problem in #1.

3. If your up lock light won't come on, then you either have an up lock switch problem (bad, or poorly adjusted--there are three) or a bad connection (wiring). Start by looking at the terminal board and connections to the NLG up lock switch (the one on the hook in the NLG well) it's the most likely of the three to give you a problem. (any problem listed in #3 will cause both #1 & #2).

You can also check the up lock switches that are on the MLG up lock (in the back, front side of the MLG wheel wells). With a helper, you should be able to press all three with your thumb and make the up light illuminate without any hydraulic power applied to the bird (if they are working correctly). Of course, after you manually open the doors with the hand pump.

With the B-model system, the up/down lights and up/down lock switches operate basically independent of the powerpack.

I'd love to fix it for you, but I moved to Florida. I know the B-model gear like the back of my hand.

V/r,

-Dana
Click to expand...
Thanks very much for this incredibly helpful info. My mechanic and I appreciate it very much. I think it’s the uplock switch in the nose after testing it a bit. We’ve ordered that part (apparently made of pure gold because of the price) and will hope to install tomorrow with the help of a certified A&P.

thanks much. I’ll report back if that solved it.
 
Doc Holliday said:
I guess taking it to a shop with an experienced A&P who has the tools and manuals is out of the question? Best to experiment with some home brewed remedies that may or may not work, and could possibly cause a situation even worse. :rolleyes: :eek:
Click to expand...

well mr holiday, that isn’t very neighborly of you. No one was doing homebrewed anything. I’ve cleaned and polished and maintained this plane for the last 40 or so years so finding help fixing a bad switch ain’t rocket science. And thanks to the good folks on this website my list of culprits was extremely limited. So thanks much to those of you who were of assistance. And to you who provided nothing of value except criticism, well, bless your heart.

My mechanic and I are on it.
 
Lowe

FYI Cessna addressed issues with earlier ( non A ) 210’s through the “ Golden Rule”

Program.

The Program was quite comprehensive to include repainting the aircraft.

Owners were encouraged to comply and were sent a substantial check.


10 years later the owner of a 210 often flew from Toronto, Ontario to the Baja.

Gear Handle UP and doors would open; Gear would retract and Doors start to

close.

Doors would re-open and Gear would drop down and Doors would momentarily

close and the cycle with begin again.

Long flight with flapping Doors?


After a very extended time on Jacks and a lot of research the cause was found to

be lack of an additional Roll Pin modification to prevent the Nose Strut from

twisting.

That Roll Pin Mod was just one of the “Golden Rule “items.
 
Since I have been maintaining my C210s quite economically since 1963 I have some pretty good knowledge on the pre-1967 versions. One thing I might suggest is DO NOT USE A MULE to raise and lower the gear for testing or working on it. You risk contamination of fluid and actually accidently draining out the fluid which actually happened to me when Pacific Airmotive did a gear cycle on the ground. They drained out almost all the fluid and I was lucky to get the gear down. Instead use the emergency pump which Cessna does approve. Also adding about 15% Granville strut seal to all your H-5606 will greatly reduce system leaks. I have only needed to one O-ring swap on mine since 1972.Manual gear pump.jpg
 
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Understand your concern with contamination.

USAF doesn’t share that concern.

Usually the Emergency Pump sucks off the bottom of the Rez.

Two reasons I use Mule:

1. Tooo much rock n rolling on extended jacks with Emergency Pump.

2. How else could you check Up/Down Cycle Time?
 
[QUOTE="Also adding about 15% Granville strut seal to all your H-5606 will greatly reduce system leaks. I have only needed to one O-ring swap on mine since 1972.View attachment 93219[/QUOTE]


Thanks so much for this info. I was just speaking about this topic with my mechanic. Timely and poignant info. Cheers!
 
Lowe Approach said:
Thanks very much for this incredibly helpful info. My mechanic and I appreciate it very much. I think it’s the uplock switch in the nose after testing it a bit. We’ve ordered that part (apparently made of pure gold because of the price) and will hope to install tomorrow with the help of a certified A&P.

thanks much. I’ll report back if that solved it.
Click to expand...

Excellent! Feel free to contact me directly if you need more tips. I've helped a few mechanics fix early 210 gear problems over the phone...

V/r,

Dana
 
Lowe Approach said:
Problem solved
It was the uplock switch in the nose. Replaced today and smooth operation. Cycled around ten times and all seems well.
Thanks again to everyone for the helpful advice. It sure made diagnosis easy.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear you got her fixed! I learned it all the old fashioned way, read the book, built my own support equipment (jacks, tail weight, and hydraulic mule) and even repaired a blown seal on my powerpack shortly after it was overhauled by a reputable shop (short by hours, not calendar time :). I'd be very interested to see some data from your bird to compare to my own..

V/r,
-Dana
 
Lowe Approach said:
Problem solved
It was the uplock switch in the nose. Replaced today and smooth operation. Cycled around ten times and all seems well.
Thanks again to everyone for the helpful advice. It sure made diagnosis easy.
Click to expand...
What did that $20 switch cost you? Be sure to lubricate and exercise all gear switches every year.
 
thomasdr72 said:
Glad to hear you got her fixed! I learned it all the old fashioned way, read the book, built my own support equipment (jacks, tail weight, and hydraulic mule) and even repaired a blown seal on my powerpack shortly after it was overhauled by a reputable shop (short by hours, not calendar time :). I'd be very interested to see some data from your bird to compare to my own..

V/r,
-Dana
Click to expand...

Yep. I’ll send you a pm. I think we already chatted on Facebook a bit as well.
Thanks
 
Snowmass said:
What did that $20 switch cost you? Be sure to lubricate and exercise all gear switches every year.
Click to expand...


Quoted $750 for new part. And found one used but in good condition for $150 plus overnight ups $20. So opted for the used.

also got quoted for the squat switch by mistake at $1200. Please lord let me never have to replace one of those.
 
Did you keep your old switch? Try lubricating and exercising it. It may just work fine. Most switches like these were originally tested to vast numbers of operations, way beyond the what they see in your airplane but with dried out lubrication the stick.
 
Snowmass said:
Did you keep your old switch? Try lubricating and exercising it. It may just work fine. Most switches like these were originally tested to vast numbers of operations, way beyond the what they see in your airplane but with dried out lubrication the stick.
Click to expand...

I did keep it, and will mess around with it. The continuity tester showed it jumping around but Ill hit it with electrical contact cleaner and try again.
Thanks
 
Lowe Approach said:
I did keep it, and will mess around with it. The continuity tester showed it jumping around but Ill hit it with electrical contact cleaner and try again.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Thanks for using ECC, and not WD-40. WD-40 is not a lubricant, and using it for this purpose is a short term solution at best!

-Skip
 
Of course WD-40 is a lubricant, just not a very good one but it will work fine in many cases. I have often used it every year since 1971 and my gear has never been a problem.

If you look at your old switch you may find the manufacturer's name, logo or part number and may be able to buy a replacement this way for a fraction of Cessna's gouging price. Companies like Digi-Key and Mouser list thousands of switches and may have a direct replacement. Imagine having to scrap a $60,000 airplane for a $20 switch.
 
You also want a cleaner that is a lubricant so you may need to clean with one and lubricate with another. Or maybe this stuff lubricates also.
 
Magman said:
Quite sure I still have my SM for that year.

There are multiple foldout pages with color coded system drawings in various

conditions.

As Capt said you really NEED this to diagnose.

Do you have jacks?

I believe they did have issues with a Door Solenoid Valve but don’t touch

w/o SM.
Click to expand...
Any chance you still have a copy of the SM? If so I would greatly appreciate a copy. I am having the same issue with my 1962 210B
Magman said:
Quite sure I still have my SM for that year.

There are multiple foldout pages with color coded system drawings in various

conditions.

As Capt said you really NEED this to diagnose.

Do you have jacks?

I believe they did have issues with a Door Solenoid Valve but don’t touch

w/o SM.
Click to expand...
 
Snowmass said:
What did that $20 switch cost you? Be sure to lubricate and exercise all gear switches every year.
Click to expand...
Microswitches DO NOT need lubrication. Any lube just ends up fouling the contacts and causing worse problems. I have had plenty of experience cleaning gunk out of flap actuator microswitches---or replacing them---after mechanics spritz the jackscrew with LPS instead of carefully applying the right stuff, and the LPS drips into the switches. Well-lubed, they are, and they eventually won't let the flaps retract in the overshoot. Could kill you.

The microswitch has a tiny tempered leaf to provide snap action. It flexes. There is no sliding mechanism to lubricate. Oil will just burn as the points open and cause trouble. If they're kept clean and dry they will last for something like a million cycles.

https://hackaday.com/2017/04/17/microswitches-past-the-tipping-point/


Jump ahead to about 3:00 in the video:
 
Lowe Approach said:
solved. See down below.
I’ve got a 62’ Cessna 21b that has about 10 landing now for the first time in 14 years. Really well maintained and super clean but stuff gets old especially if you don’t use it.

yesterday the gear worked great on a couple of circuits around the patch but then the gear doors failed to retract and the handle wouldn’t return to neutral and no amber up light. So I cycled to down, all good there with a green light.

repeated that about 4 or 5 times with no joy on the doors retracting. Fluid is full.
So I’m thinking micro switch is bad or loose wire in the sequence switches. But no clue where to start looking to diagnose.

anyone have an idea what switch or switched I should have a gander at for this issue?

thanks in advance.
Click to expand...


Not sure what parts fit what, but if any of the switches and such from a 1971 Turbo 210 will fit yours, send me a PM next time you need something, as I have a box of stuff I collected from my 210 when I owned it, hearing about some problems, I collected spare parts incase I ever needed them. Still have the box somewhere in the basement.
 
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