eAPIS - CBP $5k Fine - Advice?

Unregistered said:
You can get the phone numbers you need, here.
Click to expand...

Ahm, you can get plenty of phone numbers there, and maybe one of them refers you to that answering machine that gives you the right cellphone to call. The section that gives you the information on aircraft arrivals doesn't:

Contact Information:Phone prior to ensure staff availability. On-call Aircraft service outside the established hours (24/7)is available by appointment only, 2 hours advance notice.
 
A mistake was made. A $5,000 fine for the first offense is absolutely ridiculous. There is no way I'd just hand that over without a fight.
 
EdFred said:
And when I land at 6Y9 on my way back from Canada, guess who they are going to call to ask if anything suspicious went on. Me.

"Did you see an airplane land?"
"No, I did not witness an airplane land at the field."
Click to expand...
You keep on believing they can't find you. Hope you know a good bail bondsman as well as a good lawyer.
 
taters said:
thanks for clarifying. giving 5k to and administration that hates their own country, now I really would put up a fight.
Click to expand...
On this particular issue (failing to make the notification call to CBP at the airport where you enter the USA), that fight would cost far more in legal fees than the $5K over which you're fighting, and you'd end up paying the $5K anyway. Find a better avenue for making your protest -- this one's a no-win situation.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Now, here's a question - why WOULDN'T you call ahead?
Click to expand...
For the reason the OP didn't -- ignorance of the law, and that is not a legally-acceptable excuse.
If it were me, I'd probably still fight it just because I don't want to give up $5,000. However the OP DID violate the rules, so it would basically be like pleaing your speeding ticket from 30 over down to 5 over.
Click to expand...
I've never heard of CBP "pleading down" a penalty for this offense, but if anyone has, please share it -- along with the net savings after the cost of the lawyer to fight it.
 
Ron Levy said:
You ever been in the USAF's Regional Air Defense Center? Didn't think so.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter. They call the aiport manager asking what he saw. Guess what, that's me. And it's going to take them four hours to get anyone from SSM there. In four hours I go fly somewhere else with a couple busy patterns and get lost in the radar shuffle. If they have even tagged me on radar.
 
steingar said:
you need a radio operators license, which I think is $100

I think your aircraft also needs an operating license, another $100
Click to expand...
Neither is required by the Canadians. Both are required by the FCC, but neither CBP nor the FAA will check for them (the FAA strictly forbids its Inspectors to even look at them if presented, no less ask for presentation).

You of course need a passport, $100 every 10 years. You need that in a car or on foot too, there days. Need one for each passenger, too.
Click to expand...
That requirement applies to all travel in/out of the US, not just flying to Canada.

You have to register with eAPIS, and I suspect money changes hands there too, though I don't remember how much how often.
Click to expand...
You suspect wrongly. That one is free.

Canadian charts are a lot more than their American counterparts, and show less information.
Click to expand...
Half right - they are more expensive.

CanPass, $25/year last I checked.
Click to expand...
Never been charged or paid a fee for Canadian customs (CANPASS), but I have been charged $17 for the year for NavCanada's ATC services.

And of course you get to deal with customs, who can legally disassemble your aircraft for any reason whatsoever. Not that it's all that likely, but it would just be my luck that I'd get the guy who just had the giant fight with his Mrs. and was steamed to begin with.
Click to expand...
You need to review that video by Chris Rock and apply it to your flying and CBP.

So, all that versus calling Hertz and renting a car, which is probably cheaper than the Avgas I'll burn flying into Canada anyway.
Click to expand...
Since they can also take your rental car apart, that doesn't make much difference, and it's hard to explain a disassembled car to Hertz.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I can't remember what the radio operator and radio base station licenses cost, but I don't thinkit was $100 each. In my case, the plane already had one (permanent) and I already had one (forget if it's permanent or needs renewing). Nobody checked for either.
Click to expand...
Your plane's Aircraft Radio Station license dies with change of ownership, so the one that came with the plane when you bought it is no longer valid. However, the Restricted Radiotelephone license is good for life (mine's dated 1969). And I've never had either checked short of the Turks & Caicos -- never in the US, Canada, or the Bahamas.
 
Ron Levy said:
You keep on believing that. Good luck.
Click to expand...

That's right Ron, I forgot that you know everything. Hell, I know they wouldn't come looking for me. Why? Because I've already been through this with them. They called asking me if I saw and airplane land at the field, and I told them no, I wasn't there to witness anything. I told them I would call them back after I asked a couple locals that might have been there. I told them they didn't see anything either. There was no follow up.

You lose.
 
Ron Levy said:
Since they can also take your rental car apart, that doesn't make much difference, and it's hard to explain a disassembled car to Hertz.
Click to expand...

I think one has to verify ahead of time that the rental contract allows travel to and from whatever foreign country is involved. If that is done, and assuming the renter didn't do anything illegal, why would he need to explain anything?

"Hello Hertz? Customs disassembled your car."

"Why?"

"They didn't tell me." (Or state the reason if they did give one.)
 
Ron Levy said:
Neither is required by the Canadians. Both are required by the FCC, but neither CBP nor the FAA will check for them (the FAA strictly forbids its Inspectors to even look at them if presented, no less ask for presentation).
Click to expand...

The guy who makes his living schlepping people up to Alaska disagrees with you. Given the draconian things that can happen if you don't have the right piece of paper in your aircraft, I'll believe him thank you. You do as you please.

Ron Levy said:
Since they can also take your rental car apart, that doesn't make much difference, and it's hard to explain a disassembled car to Hertz.
Click to expand...

Actually, a rental car is probably better insured than my aircraft. But more importantly, the rental is far more common and far less fragile. They're already on a hair trigger with aircraft, but see gazillions of cars. I would assume you have to do something pretty damn stupid to draw their attention in a car. Last couple times I drove across the border I was waved right through. Since I'm posting in a thread about a guy being dinged 5 AMUs for a pretty innocent mistake, the car sounds a boatload better.

Like I said, a lot less hassle and a lot less worry for a little driving, and you probably need a car anyway. You're probably like Ted and enjoy rules and paperwork and stuff. You two can go pick out curtains.
 
steingar said:
The guy who makes his living schlepping people up to Alaska disagrees with you.
Click to expand...
I've personally checked this with CBP HQ and it's written clearly in FAA Order 8900.1. Not saying the FCC isn't checking up in Alaska, but any FAA or CBP official who asks for your radio licenses is overstepping his/her authority as granted by his/her agency. The only reason CBP checks aircraft registrations is that there is an agreement in place between FAA and CBP to do so. No such agreement exists between FCC and either CBP or FAA.
 
steingar said:
Yes it is. That's a rather long laundry list for a bleeding holiday. Especially versus rent car and drive for a hour. You may read rules and regulations for fun, but you are one of a very small minority.
Click to expand...

Hey, I also have a couple genetics books at home that I've been known to read for fun. ;)

And the penalties if you screw up can be, as we've seen, pretty steep. Phooey on the whole thing. I'll leave my aircraft in country.
Click to expand...

And you can just as easily end up with problems driving across the border. As I said, the people who are complaining are the ones who haven't done it.
 
jesse said:
A mistake was made. A $5,000 fine for the first offense is absolutely ridiculous. There is no way I'd just hand that over without a fight.
Click to expand...

Start the appeal now. If you pay now, you'll never see any of the money if you win. Appeal and only after exhausting all avenues, pay the money.

By the way, what is the process for the violation? Does CBP send you a bill or some legal document describing the violation, penalties and explanation how to contest the violation?
 
Last edited:
Ron Levy said:
On this particular issue (failing to make the notification call to CBP at the airport where you enter the USA), that fight would cost far more in legal fees than the $5K over which you're fighting, and you'd end up paying the $5K anyway. Find a better avenue for making your protest -- this one's a no-win situation.
Click to expand...

Ill just say that I'm an illegal alien an I'm owed amnesty ...then they will let me slide right on by .
 
Ill just say that I'm an illegal alien an I'm owed amnesty ...then they will let me slide right on by .
 
JeffDG said:
Can you use those by air? I know the "Passport Cards" cannot be used by air travelers (either commercial or GA)...since I'm not a USC, I have no experience with these, I just used my Canadian passport.

Nope...MI, WA, NY and VT have them...that's it. So, you claim to be better than OH is sustained in this case.
Click to expand...

Michigan is better than Ohio regardless of this particular issue. :yes: :D
 
Appeal. Even if you are sure YOU made the mistake. All it costs is your time but can save you five grand. Don't admit you did wrong only that you didn't know. It is quite possible whoever reviews your appeal will know the agent involved and you will get a pass or reduced fee.
If you talk to a lawyer, look for one with both Customs expertise and aviation experience. If he understands the environment we work in, he might be inclined to work harder.
While we can all say "ignorance of the law is no excuse", the truth is, it is and judges do take our experiences into account.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
And you can just as easily end up with problems driving across the border. As I said, the people who are complaining are the ones who haven't done it.
Click to expand...

Far, far less likely to run into trouble with a car. You don't even need to take any action other than showing up.
 
US Customs respondes pretty well to begging and crawling. I've been threatened with a $5000 fine several times. My knees still ache, but they were always removed.

I used to fly a route in a seaplane air taxi that crossed the border EVERY day. US Customs likes to hire ignorant bullies and women that would have rather been a man.... a fat ugly man.
 
Unregistered said:
Name just one - bet you can't...
Click to expand...

Some of the kindest, most caring and compassionate people I know call Mississippi home - and some of them have proved it (to quite a lot of us here, actually) on many occasions.
 
How did we get from bashing the kafkaesque CBP buerocracy to spilling prejudices about one state or the other ?
 
weilke said:
How did we get from bashing the kafkaesque CBP buerocracy to spilling prejudices about one state or the other ?
Click to expand...

You know, you're right. That's interesting. More often, threads drift toward Gestapo-bashing, not away from it.

-Rich
 
I just unpacked a bunch of home-made pickles. They are a wonderful detector of those who tell untruths. Such people claim to have had better.
 
RJM62 said:
You know, you're right. That's interesting. More often, threads drift toward Gestapo-bashing, not away from it.
Click to expand...

Now you did it.

I think we should bash microsoft a bit more.
 
weilke said:
Now you did it.

I think we should bash microsoft a bit more.
Click to expand...

Well now, I'm not done bashing Mississippi yet but will certainly make room for a bit of MS critical typing.

After all, who can't find a little fun pointing out the obvious flaws in a GUI poorly glued on to a TUI which overlays a disaster of an OS which is riddled with inadequate design and abismal implementation?
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top