Dynon Certified with GFC 500 experience?

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Hank

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hankster2
I'm kicking around avionics upgrades for a Grumman AA5 and right now I'm bouncing back and forth between a full Garmin suite (G3x, GNX 375, G5, GFC 500) or the Dynon Skyview HDX suite with a G5 replacing the D10, a GPS 175 as the IFR navigator, and the GFC 500 (going this route because the Dynon autopilot is likely not getting certified for my aircraft for the foreseeable future).

I'm curious to hear from anyone who's installed the Dynon + Garmin Navigator and potentially anyone who's installed the two with the GFC 500 Autopilot. How is the integration between the two sides of the panel? What information can get passed through the ARINC-429. From what I understand you can't modify flight plans from the HDX and send them back to the IFR GPS correct? How tedious is this? What are the pain-points?

I'm currently leaning towards the Dynon/Garmin combination due to the cost, understanding that I might lose some things in terms of full integration.
 
The Dynon works fine with the Garmin navigators. The D10A is a required component with the Dynon system. That doesn’t preclude a G5 necessarily, but you have to have the D10A. I think the TruTrak auto pilot for the Grumman is imminent.
 
I have heard reports of the Grumman TruTrak, but I think that may have been a mistake because American Champion was announced on the Webinar.
 
Interesting. I've only had a very initial discussion with the avionics guy, but he was the one who suggested replacing the D10A with the G5 to get the AHRS input for the autopilot. He said the G5 would make the D10A unnecessary in the install. I had the same initial reaction, but he seemed rather confident. I guess I'll call Dynon to confirm.
 
Jesse Saint said:
I have heard reports of the Grumman TruTrak, but I think that may have been a mistake because American Champion was announced on the Webinar.
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Either that or someone confused American-Champion with American-Aviation/Grumman-American/Gulfstream-American/American-General.
 
What's the price difference between the Dynon and the G3x? If you aren't going with the Dynon autopilot (don't know if it's approved for your plane), then I'd lean towards the G3x in the hopes that the out of the box integration will be better with a full Garmin setup.
 
Hank said:
I'm kicking around avionics upgrades for a Grumman AA5 and right now I'm bouncing back and forth between a full Garmin suite (G3x, GNX 375, G5, GFC 500) or the Dynon Skyview HDX suite with a G5 replacing the D10, a GPS 175 as the IFR navigator, and the GFC 500 (going this route because the Dynon autopilot is likely not getting certified for my aircraft for the foreseeable future).

I'm curious to hear from anyone who's installed the Dynon + Garmin Navigator and potentially anyone who's installed the two with the GFC 500 Autopilot. How is the integration between the two sides of the panel? What information can get passed through the ARINC-429. From what I understand you can't modify flight plans from the HDX and send them back to the IFR GPS correct? How tedious is this? What are the pain-points?

I'm currently leaning towards the Dynon/Garmin combination due to the cost, understanding that I might lose some things in terms of full integration.
Click to expand...

I would not do the Dynon if the Dynon autopilot wasn't available for my plane, for several reasons. First:

Jesse Saint said:
The D10A is a required component with the Dynon system. That doesn’t preclude a G5 necessarily, but you have to have the D10A.
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Putting in both the G5 and the required D10A seems like it would eat up a fair bit of the price difference. I'm pretty sure the SkyView HDX requires the D10A as its backup, that's part of the STC. But the Garmin autopilot requires the G5, so you would need both. There goes most of your savings.

Second, you would need to adjust altimeter settings in two different places (G5 and Dynon). I think the HDX and D10A will talk to each other, but they will not talk to the G5, so you'll need to make every baro change in at least two places. Not a show-stopper, but annoying.

Finally, you lose what I think is one of the most compelling things about the Garmin G3X + G5 + GFC 500 system, and that is some incredible fault tolerance: Because both the G5 and the G3X can function as the brains of the GFC 500 autopilot system, you can have a complete failure of either the G5 or the G3X and still have an operable autopilot. In addition, the G3X and G5 will monitor each other so if you have an AHRS failure of any sort (even one that doesn't flag the corresponding display with red Xs) you will be alerted.

So, IMO, if the Dynon autopilot isn't available for your plane, the all-Garmin solution you mentioned is the way to go.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
I would not do the Dynon if the Dynon autopilot wasn't available for my plane, for several reasons. First:



Putting in both the G5 and the required D10A seems like it would eat up a fair bit of the price difference. I'm pretty sure the SkyView HDX requires the D10A as its backup, that's part of the STC. But the Garmin autopilot requires the G5, so you would need both. There goes most of your savings.

Second, you would need to adjust autopilot settings in two different places (G5 and Dynon). I think the HDX and D10A will talk to each other, but they will not talk to the G5, so you'll need to make every baro change in at least two places. Not a show-stopper, but annoying.

Finally, you lose what I think is one of the most compelling things about the Garmin G3X + G5 + GFC 500 system, and that is some incredible fault tolerance: Because both the G5 and the G3X can function as the brains of the GFC 500 autopilot system, you can have a complete failure of either the G5 or the G3X and still have an operable autopilot. In addition, the G3X and G5 will monitor each other so if you have an AHRS failure of any sort (even one that doesn't flag the corresponding display with red Xs) you will be alerted.

So, IMO, if the Dynon autopilot isn't available for your plane, the all-Garmin solution you mentioned is the way to go.
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Thanks. This is some great feedback/insight I'll need to take into consideration.
 
The SkyView will not share Baro with the D10A. The whole point of the D10A in the Dynon system is that it’s a completely stand alone backup. It gets power, ground pitot and static, and that’s all. The D10A and SkyView also both have backup batteries as required and included equipment.

I have heard of a G3X system with a G5 where the entire system including the G5 went Tango Uniform for a short time. Software bug? I’m not sure. For IMC in my plane, I am going to have a completely independent backup, not wired to anything else on the panel.
 
Jesse Saint said:
The SkyView will not share Baro with the D10A. The whole point of the D10A in the Dynon system is that it’s a completely stand alone backup. It gets power, ground pitot and static, and that’s all.
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The G5 is a standalone backup too, it just has the ability to send and receive communications over the CANbus.

In the certified installations, the G3X will send the baro setting, altitude/airspeed bugs, etc to the G5, but if you set them on the G5 it's on its own and doesn't send them back to the G3X.

I have heard of a G3X system with a G5 where the entire system including the G5 went Tango Uniform for a short time. Software bug? I’m not sure.
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I have a hard time believing that, short of a massively botched installation that allowed a power surge on the CANbus that their power supplies protected them from. There just isn't much of anything that they share aside from a connection to that bus. They are running completely different software, even written by different teams as I understand it.
 
The CANBus connection makes it not and independent stand-alone backup. Unless software is substantially different than experimental, the G5 sends and receives settings with the G3X.

Hard to believe as you find it, it can happen. The case I heard of was from a reputable source with a professional installation, not a wack with a hack job installation.
 
Jesse Saint said:
The CANBus connection makes it not and independent stand-alone backup. Unless software is substantially different than experimental, the G5 sends and receives settings with the G3X.

Hard to believe as you find it, it can happen. The case I heard of was from a reputable source with a professional installation, not a wack with a hack job installation.
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The CANbus does not mean it's not an independent stand-alone backup. The G5 does not need the CANbus unless there are two of them, there are external LRUs (like the magnetometer, OAT, or GAD 29B), or it's hooked up to the G3X Touch. The backup functions should work fine without any of that.

Can you find out some further information?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
The CANbus does not mean it's not an independent stand-alone backup. The G5 does not need the CANbus unless there are two of them, there are external LRUs (like the magnetometer, OAT, or GAD 29B), or it's hooked up to the G3X Touch. The backup functions should work fine without any of that.

Can you find out some further information?
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The G5 will revert as the primary instrument and will control the GFC500 when installed with a G3x if the G3x fails. Garmin developed the certified system that way. I'm not sure why others are saying different.
 
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