Dumping fuel during pre-flight

[BEdesigns]

On another aviation forum I frequent there was an interesting string about how people dispose of the fuel which has been drained during pre-flight.

Almost every response said they spill it out on the ground, as do I. (I DID)

Because I try to be "GREEN" and wish to do my part to help save the environment, I thought I would pass this along.

As many of you may or may not know there is something called a GATS Jar which allows you to collect your fuel sample and return it to your fuel tanks thus not spilling it on the ground.

If anyone is interested in one of these GATS jars there is an offer on www.BornAviator.com for $13.90 ea. you must be a member though, no big deal.

I just received mine and I am very happy and I think it is important enough to let you all know.

Whether you get one from them or a local shop or online, get one! There're cheep around $19.00 or so and the amount of fuel that we stop from seeping into the ground will be huge. We should all do our part.

I feel better now and can come down from my platform.

Thanks,
Bruce

 

[ScottM]

I have not dumped fuel for almost 23 years. Either put in a can for contaminated fuel or the GATS jar. Dumping BTW is ileagal in several states. Florida for one. And that is a state I fly in a lot.

 

[jesse]

Honestly. I pretty much always dump the fuel on the ground.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Honestly. I pretty much always dump the fuel on the ground.

That's because you don't own the airport. I do. Well 2/170 of the airport. I don't dump fuel on my own asphalt. I don't think much of some jerk who dumps fuel on my asphalt...

 

[kevin47881]

This brings up an interesting question. If the cans are only $19.00, why doesn't every FBO have one available for use? Don't take this as me being critical of FBO's (I'm not) but rather just one man thinking out loud.

 

[spiderweb]

I use the jar or a regular sampler, and I put it back in. Fuel on the ground is as useful as male nipples.

 

[tom.]

...the amount of fuel that we stop from seeping into the ground will be huge.

Doesn't fuel spilled onto a concrete ramp just evaporate? ('Course the lead might not)

 

[Tim]

Yea! keep your fuel off my petroleum based asphalt

 

[etsisk]

Doesn't fuel spilled onto a concrete ramp just evaporate? ('Course the lead might not)

It doesn't "just" evaporate - it then goes into the air, allowing all of us to deal with it. And it leaves stuff on the ground to end up in the water table after the next rainstorm. Really, gotta love a GATS jar! And having a can for dumping what can't go into the GATS jar is pretty great too. (Thinking of that sump under the engine in a C172, where you have to pull the knob up by the oil dipstick, so the gas can just squirt onto the ground - )

 

[tom.]

It doesn't "just" evaporate - it then goes into the air...

I like it.


Usually mine goes in the lawnmower.

 

[wsuffa]

GATS jar is wonderful. Pour it back in the tank, dump the waste in a metal can. If you have a motorized trolly, burn it there.

 

[tonycondon]

a guy in my glider club, recently bought a cessna 140, is using his waste gas to run his little moped from holland (a real mo-ped that you pedal to start) that serves as his airport vehicle, until our airport manager catches him...

 

[JasonCT]

I am a big fan of the GATS jar!

 

[SkyHog]

Well, at least no one has tried to bring the Federal Water Protection Act in. Its only illegal if your state makes it so.

I dump it. Nothing comes out of the tank and then goes back in. Nothing. Call me old school, but a few ounces of 100LL ain't gonna destroy the environment (and if you take it to the max, spread out all over the country, 100s of gallons of 100LL won't either). I always take flak for it. So be it.

 

[jesse]

So..if I pour some fuel onto the ground..I can watch it evaporate. That spot will be dry very quickly.

When your airplane is sitting on the ramp. Some fuel evaporates out of your tanks does it not?

Solution: Ban fuel tanks in airplanes.

 

[SkyHog]

Don't forget hot days, where the fuel expands and vents on the ground too. Often times, much more than I dump on the ground.

Solution: Ban tank vents.

 

[poadeleted20]

You don't need a GATTS jar to dump the fuel in a proper place, but you do need the FBO to provide a dump canister in which to toss fuel samples which have crud or water in them.

 

[infotango]

An ounce of gasoline can pollute thousands and thousands of gallons of underground water. If anybody drinks well water in the area, you are probably slowly poisoning them. The water you watch evaporate from the ground really is going into the ground and down to the water some people drink.

 

[Bill]

Solution: Ban fuel tanks in airplanes.

No, add a nice evap charcoal canister and the associated hoses and solenoids just like they do on cars. I'm sure it won't add much weight, cost, or complexity.

 

[AirBaker]

Everyone complains about the lead in the gas out here... eh...

Usually I put it right back into the tank. Unless it's got water in it, or it is raining. Either way, I'm not opening back up the tank.

If there was a fuel sample disposal can, I'd be kind enough to use it.

 

[AirBaker]

An ounce of gasoline can pollute thousands and thousands of gallons of underground water. If anybody drinks well water in the area, you are probably slowly poisoning them. The water you watch evaporate from the ground really is going into the ground and down to the water some people drink.

Not quite sure I buy that. I agree it could be possible, but it seems there are plenty of other contaminants out compared to the 100LL poisoning.

 

[poadeleted20]

BTW, IIRC, Florida requires all FBO's to have dump canisters on the ramp. If the other states would follow that lead, we'd have less of an issue.

 

[SkyHog]

Not quite sure I buy that. I agree it could be possible, but it seems there are plenty of other contaminants out compared to the 100LL poisoning.

Including:
Urine, road grime, chlorine, sewage, and umpteen other materials and chemicals. But oh, that ounce of 100LL!

 

[W.O'Boogie]

Hopefully the FBO empties the bomb...errrr...waste bin frequently. And hopefully, the bomb...errrr....waste bin is fairly close. I have parked on ramps where it was a good .5 -.75 mile hike from FBO to plane. Some folks just won't carry a couple of ounces of fuel that far just to dump it. Especially when they know that tank vents tend to put more on the ground than their piddly little test tube amount on a hot day.

 

[AirBaker]

Including:
Urine, road grime, chlorine, sewage, and umpteen other materials and chemicals. But oh, that ounce of 100LL!

...let alone the manufaturing plants, semiconductor fabs, and those computer monitors in the landfills out here.

I'm all for bein green, but I'm always skeptical.

 

[infotango]

Including:
Urine, road grime, chlorine, sewage, and umpteen other materials and chemicals. But oh, that ounce of 100LL!

100LL is different because it is much a much more soluable into water than the some of the listed chemicals, or it is not filtered out by the dirt as it filters down to the ground water.

It's always a really really good idea to avoid pouring highly toxic chemicals onto the ground.

 

[etsisk]

See, Chris, it doesn't matter whether you buy into the fact that a very little amount of oil/gas can sour hundreds of thousands of gallons of water. It's still a fact, whether anyone knows it or not. And the reason that we DO know it is because it has happened, and people started testing and experimenting to find out how big a problem it is.

And all the run-off from the streets and parking lots DOES cause problems downstream - for the environment and for the water processing plants downstream that are trying to come up with good water for their own folks. And Mfg pollution is still a problem - I'm sure you're familiar with the term "Superfund"???

Yeah, there are other point sources of pollution - but why in the world would anyone think that makes any kind of difference? That's like saying, well, people are killing people with knives and guns all over the place, so it's ok to bludgeon someone to death.

 

[jesse]

An ounce of gasoline can pollute thousands and thousands of gallons of underground water. If anybody drinks well water in the area, you are probably slowly poisoning them. The water you watch evaporate from the ground really is going into the ground and down to the water some people drink.

You need to play with gasoline and matches more often. You'll learn very quickly of the rate in which gasoline will evaporate. I really doubt when I poor an ounce of fuel onto a burning hot ramp that much of it is soaking through the ramp.

There is a lot more fuel being spilt by the line guys each time they fill your airplane along with the fuel dripping out of your vents.

See, Chris, it doesn't matter whether you buy into the fact that a very little amount of oil/gas can sour hundreds of thousands of gallons of water. It's still a fact, whether anyone knows it or not. And the reason that we DO know it is because it has happened, and people started testing and experimenting to find out how big a problem it is.

Really? Where is all of this evidence?

How many of you have ever drank pure gasoline? I have swallowed a few ounces in my life from time to time. I'm sort of alive, although I'm not very smart. But I don't think that's related?

Man. It's too bad that all these people are falling over dead that have lived by airports for the last 70 years.

 

[ScottM]

How many of you have ever drank pure gasoline? I have swallowed a few ounces in my life from time to time. I'm sort of alive, although I'm not very smart. But I don't think that's related?

But since you are "not very smart" why would we trust your judgment that they too event are not related?? (just funnin' you)

I think the bigger issue is not people drinking a few ppm of gasoline, but what effect it has on small creatures in the water that form the basis of the food chain. I scuba dive, alot here in the midwest as I teach scuba, and I can see what a little polution can do to a lake.

 

[gkainz]

But since you are "not very smart" why would we trust your judgment that they too event are not related?? (just funnin' you)

I think the bigger issue is not people drinking a few ppm of gasoline, but what effect it has on small creatures in the water that form the basis of the food chain. I scuba dive, alot here in the midwest as I teach scuba, and I can see what a little polution can do to a lake.

That polution is because people take "wet suit" literally!

 

[jkaduk]

Keep your sample cup clean and if the sample has no water, put it back in the tank. Someone please tell me what's so hard about that and what can go wrong.

 

[jkaduk]

Yea! keep your fuel off my petroleum based asphalt

Oil is also petroleum based. Would you put gas in your oil?

 

[jesse]

Keep your sample cup clean and if the sample has no water, put it back in the tank. Someone please tell me what's so hard about that and what can go wrong.

Nothing. But If that engine were to ever cough for no reason..and I were to bust an airplane up or worse hurt someone...I'd be asking myself for the rest of my life if it was because of me pouring back a possibly contaminated fuel sample.

As far as water in the fuel. My dad / grandpa / and great uncle flew stearmans since they were built. Including over 40 years worth of crop dusting and airshows. Not one of them sampled fuel. They all said water never would happen...None of them ever busted up an airplane.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

There is no question whatsoever that it deteriorates asphalt.
Clean fuel is clean fuel.
I've found some little bit of water in 100LL about 10 times over the years, and saw one guy drain about a pint of H2O out of one wing while testing.

 

[jesse]

There is no question whatsoever that it deteriorates asphalt.

I honestly doubt the occasional ounce from a pilot is going to cause a dramatic decrease in the life of the asphalt. I'm sure it'll be have to be resurfaced or redone in about the same timeframe either way from damage done by the natural element.

I see pilots throwing an oz or two onto the asphalt at airports all the time. I don't see all kinds of damage caused by the fuel. I'm sure more damage is being done by the weight and movement of heavy aircraft.

I'm sure if you poured gallons of gasoline on a certain spot on the asphalt every day. There might be some damage eventually. But that's not the case. The case is an oz out fuel being spread out over 20 feet in the form of little droplets.

Clean fuel is clean fuel.

Exactly. I like clean fuel in my tanks. I don't like to be having to think about that.

More or less none of us are going to agree.

 

[infotango]

You need to play with gasoline and matches more often. You'll learn very quickly of the rate in which gasoline will evaporate. I really doubt when I poor an ounce of fuel onto a burning hot ramp that much of it is soaking through the ramp.

There is a lot more fuel being spilt by the line guys each time they fill your airplane along with the fuel dripping out of your vents.

Really? Where is all of this evidence?

How many of you have ever drank pure gasoline? I have swallowed a few ounces in my life from time to time. I'm sort of alive, although I'm not very smart. But I don't think that's related?

Man. It's too bad that all these people are falling over dead that have lived by airports for the last 70 years.

You need to get better line men. I spent two years of my life fuelling small planes, and only once managed to ever spill a drop. Pay attention, no problems.
I have also spent enough time fixing asphalt to know the damage that fuel on the asphalt will do.
Groundwater pollution is much more insidious than people dropping dead. It causes things like birth defects and can lead to physiological problems in children due to the benzene and other toxins in fuel.
Yes it may evaporate quickly but it still leaves a toxic residue. Besides the evaporation is lousy for the air quality. And all of us are hurt by crummy air quality.


Bottom line: People hate GA with a passion already. Why add to the list of grievances they can hold against us?

 

[infotango]

I honestly doubt the occasional ounce from a pilot is going to cause a dramatic decrease in the life of the asphalt. I'm sure it'll be have to be resurfaced or redone in about the same timeframe either way from damage done by the natural element.

Spend a few weeks fixing the tarmac at an airport and then come back and tell me that.

 

[NC Pilot]

As far as water in the fuel. My dad / grandpa / and great uncle flew stearmans since they were built. Including over 40 years worth of crop dusting and airshows. Not one of them sampled fuel. They all said water never would happen...None of them ever busted up an airplane.

Well, I've seen water in my sample cup. Once in all the time I've been flying. Took quite a bit of draining to get rid of it too. Don't know how much it was, where it came from or what it would have done once I got the engine started and into the air. All I know is that I was glad I found it and will never take off without sampling the fuel in my plane.

 

[gprellwitz]

Everyone complains about the lead in the gas out here... eh...

Usually I put it right back into the tank. Unless it's got water in it, or it is raining. Either way, I'm not opening back up the tank.

If there was a fuel sample disposal can, I'd be kind enough to use it.

I've got the little strainer from Sportys, so I usually put it back in the tank. As you say, though, if there are contaminants or it's raining, I'll dump it. Unfortunately, while we have a dump can by the fuel, and another in front of the FBO, it's still a 3 minute walk to the tie downs each way. Figure I have three trips to make (one for each wing and one for the engine), I've just added 18 minutes to the preflight.

(Sorry, but I do not pull out the recommended 1 cup of fuel from each sump. 13 sumps = 13 cups. If I'm not putting fuel back in the tanks, it's 78 minutes walking to the fuel dump. Time to turn the plane back in for the next renter!)

 

[Greebo]

As far as water in the fuel. My dad / grandpa / and great uncle flew stearmans since they were built. Including over 40 years worth of crop dusting and airshows. Not one of them sampled fuel. They all said water never would happen...None of them ever busted up an airplane.

I hope you do understand that cases like that do not guarantee the same future outcomes.