Dumb Question

david0tey

david0tey

Line Up and Wait
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I think the answer to this question is obvious but the small things bother me. So, when in a holding pattern and making the turn back inbound to intercept a VOR radial, how do you make the intercept? Theoretically, a standard rate turn should bring you right back on the inbound course. Practically, I'm sure this never happens. Would you turn 90 degrees until the needle starts to move and then track inbound? 120? 150? What is the general rule of thumb?
 
In theory, s standard rate turn will bring you in track, but only in no-wind conditions. What it will require depends on the wind direction and strength, the correction you made outbound and other variables. The easy one is when the needle is coming in slowly; you simply stop or slow your turn wait to allow it to come in more. If the needle is comin in too fast you may end up having to intercept from the other side.

At first, that appears way more complicated than it is. All part of developing situational awareness.

Don't know how obvious that is. Eye of the beholder I guess.
 
I usually keep it standard at 30 degrees from the inbound heading. It changes in every situation, but that's about average. Most times I'll overshoot and after a round or two, I'll have it dead on.
 
Depends on the wind. Remember that turn radius increases if you are turning away from the wind and decreases if you are turning into the wind. Visualize an approach to runway 18 with your heading toward the facility true north of your position; procedure turn is west and the wind is from the southwest. If you do the "standard" (it is not standard) 45 degrees turn to the left, the wind will surely blow you right through the final approach course. Instead, turn 60 degrees and fly for more than a minute...you do have ten miles in which to reverse course, remember) before turning back. When your turn gets to within 30 degrees of the inbound the needle should be coming off the peg...if not, stop your turn until it does.

The amount of airspace protected for reversing course is enormous. I have a nice diagram in THE COMPLETE ADVANCED PILOT.

Now lets go back to the same approach only this time the wind is from the east. Do your 45 degree thing and turn back after what you think is about enough time and a standard rate turn into the wind will have you completing the procedure turn without ever intercepting the inbound.

Do not fall into the trap of thinking that you can only fly certain headings for specific lengths of time...the wind is king, not you or the AIM.

Bob Gardner
 
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I teach folks to check the CDI as they reach 45 degrees to go to the inbound course heading. If the needle isn't moving off the side wall, roll wings level and wait for it to move, then follow it in. If it is moving, use the needle's deflection and speed of movement to guide you through the rest of the intercept. Note that I do a few hours of training just on intercepting and tracking VOR courses before we even start on holding patterns, so this skill should be developed and practiced by itself before you move to more advanced procedures.
 
Ron Levy said:
Note that I do a few hours of training just on intercepting and tracking VOR courses before we even start on holding patterns, so this skill should be developed and practiced by itself before you move to more advanced procedures.
Click to expand...

This..is..key .
 
david0tey said:
I think the answer to this question is obvious but the small things bother me. So, when in a holding pattern and making the turn back inbound to intercept a VOR radial, how do you make the intercept? Theoretically, a standard rate turn should bring you right back on the inbound course. Practically, I'm sure this never happens. Would you turn 90 degrees until the needle starts to move and then track inbound? 120? 150? What is the general rule of thumb?
Click to expand...

I set up a standard rate turn then gauge the motion of the needle as I'm closing in and adjust my turn to suit. With an HSI type display though is simpler, when the needle starts moving, just chase it with the lubber line keeping it right over the needle and you end up perfect. Same for all intercepts.
 
Funny how a straight up flying question and a bunch of useful on-target responses gets titled 'Dumb Question'!

I'm headed out to the gym thinking I should take my copy of Bob's 'Advanced Pilot' for my Stairmaster workout... memories
 
Bill Watson said:
I'm headed out to the gym thinking I should take my copy of Bob's 'Advanced Pilot' for my Stairmaster workout... memories
Click to expand...

Make sure you look in the chapter on holding patterns. Bob's advice above was for procedure turns. :)

dtuuri
 
Henning said:
I set up a standard rate turn then gauge the motion of the needle as I'm closing in and adjust my turn to suit. With an HSI type display though is simpler, when the needle starts moving, just chase it with the lubber line keeping it right over the needle and you end up perfect. Same for all intercepts.
Click to expand...
What do you do if the needle never moves?
 
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