DUI from 9 years ago

mscard88

mscard88

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Mark
I was over at my son's house yesterday for some ribs (mmm good) and we got to talking about flying. He has a PPC but really hasn't flown in 10-12 years except once he went up with me. Hasn't had a medical for years either. Around 9 years ago he got a DUI and later a lawyer got him off without there being any record of it.

He told me he was going to get his medical so he could fly and had filled out the medical online. He reported his DUI on the form even though there is no record of it, which is irrelevant now that he's reported it I'm guessing. My question, and I've read the DUI related threads, what will he have to go thru to get his medical, if anything. Told him he might be hosed for awhile but that I would see what everyone thinks on POA. Thanks.
 
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Just have to pay enough money that you become a "good guy" again. Sounds like a Dr. Chien call to me.

Too bad he reported something that he wasn't guilty of, or was in any records.
 
He was guilty, but has an attorney bud that got him off with no record of it, which at this point is irrelevant as he's already reported it. Proud he's honest enough to do that.
 
mscard88 said:
He was guilty, but has an attorney bud that got him off with no record of it, which at this point is irrelevant as he's already reported it. Proud he's honest enough to do that.
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But if his lawyer got him off the charges doesn't that make him not guilty under the eyes of the law/court/database?
 
Possibly but he's reported it and is fine with his decision. I'm just wondering what he will have to go thru to get his medical.
 
James331 said:
But if his lawyer got him off the charges doesn't that make him not guilty under the eyes of the law/court/database?
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You need to reread the reporting requirements. You don't have to be convicted to be required to report.
 
172andyou said:
You need to reread the reporting requirements. You don't have to be convicted to be required to report.
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Not in the database, never happened.

Besides does the IRS report any extra money you could have got back?

Half the time the courts withhold information, the police are allowed to lie to you, show them the same honor they show you
 
James331 said:
Not in the database, never happened.
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Putting aside for the moment that you're advocating lying, presumably because you think the risk of getting caught is low.

Who says it isn't in the database? As Dr. Bruce has pointed up ad nauseam, there are multiple databases and the federal one never gets expunged.

But again, as you frequently do, you're moving the goalposts. You said "if his lawyer got him off the charges doesn't that make him not guilty under the eyes of the law/court/database" which is of zero importance. The reporting requirement exists simply by being arrested.
 
172andyou said:
Putting aside for the moment that you're advocating lying, presumably because you think the risk of getting caught is low.

Who says it isn't in the database? As Dr. Bruce has pointed up ad nauseam, there are multiple databases and the federal one never gets expunged.

But again, as you frequently do, you're moving the goalposts. You said "if his lawyer got him off the charges doesn't that make him not guilty under the eyes of the law/court/database" which is of zero importance. The reporting requirement exists simply by being arrested.
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So do your due diligence, run yourself, see what comes up.



Or, lube up and spread em' for your overloads, maybe if you're lucky they'll give ya a atta' boy and pat on the head.

ky_jelly____now_in_bulk_by_sleepytim.jpg



No one ever got a cash prize for providing extra unknown information to their government.

So, see what comes back from a search and go from there.
 
Not reporting is a bad idea. They may or may not be able to find out, but if you lie, and make no mistake, not reporting is a lie, it could be costly. In the end, there is no reason to not report, a 9 year old dui is going to be a non issue as long as there haven't been any other alcohol related issues.
 
To the best of your knowledge.

It's their crime, their court and their database, if they don't "remember" presuming their subjects "remember" the event is laughable.
 
James331 said:
But if his lawyer got him off the charges doesn't that make him not guilty under the eyes of the law/court/database?
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You are making an assumption that this:
mscard88 said:
Around 9 years ago he got a DUI and later a lawyer got him off without there being any record of it.
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is an accurate statement. I'm not saying truthful or untruthful but simply accurate. I learned pretty early on that people only rarely have an accurate understanding of court process and what court records say, even when it involves their own cases. I wouldn't even think of advising someone about a question like this without making my own due diligence inquiry into what records there actually are and what they actually say.

If it's reportable, you report it (unless you believe it's all about whether one get's caught or not). If it's not reportable, there's no reason to report it.
 
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James331 said:
No one ever got a cash prize for providing extra unknown information to their government.
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No, they just lost their license when they eventually got caught lying.

You are giving awfully reckless advice. Right up there with your tirades about how people who buy insurance are fools.
 
172andyou said:
No, they just lost their license when they eventually got caught lying.

You are giving awfully reckless advice. Right up there with your tirades about how people who buy insurance are fools.
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Go ask a cop, or even watch "cops", and see how many people TALK them selves into cuffs by having diarrhea of the mouth.

Or ask around what most folks ROI is on insurance, I'm not against it, just don't think you need to try to insure every aspect of your life.


Just sayin' lots of folks make non issues into issues. Less often is more when it comes to revealing your business or talking.
 
James331 said:
Go ask a cop, or even watch "cops", and see how many people TALK them selves into cuffs by having diarrhea of the mouth.
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You're moving the goalposts again. We are talking about a DUI arrest being reported to the FAA.
 
James331 said:
Go ask a cop, or even watch "cops", and see how many people TALK them selves into cuffs by having diarrhea of the mouth.
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The "reality" of shows like Cops aside, if you are talking about criminal suspects who are not required to say anything, who, once under suspicion, have about zero chance of convincing the police they are not guilty, and will have anything they say being interpreted as further evidence of guilt, yep. Absolutely. In many cases, if they just shut up they would usually be way ahead.

But I'd suggest that's just a teenie weenie bit different than having a legal obligation to report something and either failing to report it or lying about it.

Yeah, it's going to be pretty unusual for the FAA to refer falsification of a medical certificate to the DOJ for criminal prosecution but it can and has happened.
 
I'd just rather play by their own rules, the only folks moving goal posts everyday are the folks who take their pay out of your checks under the guise that "we are here to help"
 
This has nothing to do with whether he beat the rap. It's about the arrest.
Expungement, is a state notion. Unless he beat the rap in less than a perfectly timed less than one month cycle, it's on a federal datatape.

He will need: a CADC evaluation, a 10 year driver's search, and a decent personal statement. This will be treated as BAC >0.15 unless he has the expunged officer's report.
 
Some states do petition the Feds for expungement of arrests. The Feds may or may not do it, but they usually will for smaller stuff.

The only way to know is pay a few bucks to have your prints run though the CHRC database.
 
bbchien said:
Typical Blue Board: "Lie, it be okay, mate". Trouble is get discovered, lose all your ill gotten pilot certificates.
WAY TO GO...........not so much!!
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Well, seeing as though I'm the only poster between your two posts, you must be referring to me??
If so, what is your exact question and I will answer as honestly as I can. If not, it sounds like the beer was cheap tonight.
 
Kritchlow said:
Well, seeing as though I'm the only poster between your two posts, you must be referring to me??
If so, what is your exact question and I will answer as honestly as I can. If not, it sounds like the beer was cheap tonight.
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I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about you. If you read the whole thread, you will see what he was referring to.
 
bbchien said:
This has nothing to do with whether he beat the rap. It's about the arrest.
Expungement, is a state notion. Unless he beat the rap in less than a perfectly timed less than one month cycle, it's on a federal datatape.

He will need: a CADC evaluation, a 10 year driver's search, and a decent personal statement. This will be treated as BAC >0.15 unless he has the expunged officer's report.
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Thanks Dr Chien. I have forwarded what you wrote and your link to my son. Hopefully he will contact you. Thanks again.
 
Does the PBOR reform has something that addresses DUI arrests? The Dr. physical Questionnaire? Separate reporting? I haven't read much about this aspect.

Cheers
 
Kritchlow said:
Some states do petition the Feds for expungement of arrests. The Feds may or may not do it, but they usually will for smaller stuff.

The only way to know is pay a few bucks to have your prints run though the CHRC database.
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He was talking about me, also I agree 1000% about what you said about running yourself FIRST.

Got a bit of respect for the doc, but on some subjects, and I'm not sure if it has to do with generating business for himself, seems he make mountains out of what could very well be mole hills.


Again, for those with little reading comprehension, run yourself first, see if there is a issue to start with, and go from there. It's not rocket surgery.
 
James331 said:
Just have to pay enough money that you become a "good guy" again. Sounds like a Dr. Chien call to me.

Too bad he reported something that he wasn't guilty of, or was in any records.
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He was guilty James, and I'm proud of him as his father for being honest. He answered the question honestly and will have to deal with the consequences. He's a grown man with a lovely family and he can handle it.
 
James,
If you knew how little he charges for all the work he does, you would realize his motivation is more about getting pilots returned to flight status than generating revenue. In fact, he never receives a dime for a lot of the advice he provides.
 
James331 said:
He was talking about me, also I agree 1000% about what you said about running yourself FIRST.

Got a bit of respect for the doc, but on some subjects, and I'm not sure if it has to do with generating business for himself, seems he make mountains out of what could very well be mole hills.


Again, for those with little reading comprehension, run yourself first, see if there is a issue to start with, and go from there. It's not rocket surgery.
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This is ******** and totally out of line.
 
Had he lied there is the possibility his certificate would have been revoked. The FAA checks the fbi arrest database. That database is linked to state and local jurisdictions in most cases. Even if he has his arrest record deleted at the local level the federal database is unchanged. There is no such thing as no record existing. If he was arrested for dui there is a record and there is a high probability the FAA would see the arrest.
Not disclosing the arrest on his medical would have taken a situation from being a minor PIA to likely having his certificate revoked. Your son did the right thing
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Had he lied there is the possibility his certificate would have been revoked. The FAA checks the fbi arrest database. That database is linked to state and local jurisdictions in most cases. Even if he has his arrest record deleted at the local level the federal database is unchanged. There is no such thing as no record existing. If he was arrested for dui there is a record and there is a high probability the FAA would see the arrest.
Not disclosing the arrest on his medical would have taken a situation from being a minor PIA to likely having his certificate revoked. Your son did the right thing
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So you don't think it's worth spending 18 bucks to run yourself first, before you go down the way longer, way more expensive path?

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/identity-history-summary-checks

That's all I said.....
 
James331, you clearly don't get "truth". For this poster and his honest son, it is about truth. And the fix is pretty simple. And that is why this board can be just pathetic.

And revenue? YGBFKM! I just posted what he needs to do!!!

That is why I don't come here regularly. I get nauseated.
For X3Skier: PBOR-2, every two years when you take the course, releases (2307(c)10B) a current copy of the National Driver's database to the FAA as well. IF you have an alcohol arrest, you are removed from PBOR-2 under the "psychiatry cutout" ((e)A(A)iv) and you get inspected for alcohol abuse.
 
Thanks Dr Chien. I assumed there was a system but no idea how it was to be implemented.

Your support of pilots medical questions is very much valued. Thank you.

Cheers
 
James331 said:
So you don't think it's worth spending 18 bucks to run yourself first, before you go down the way longer, way more expensive path?

That's all I said.....
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No, that's not all you said. You also said that he wasn't convicted, as if that matters. You said that Dr. Bruce might be giving bad advice in order to line his own pockets. You said "Not in the database, never happened" as a justification for lying. It's ok if you didn't know everything at the start of this conversation. It's not ok to pretend like you've been consistently saying the same thing all along or even understood the reporting standard.
 
172andyou said:
No, that's not all you said. You also said that he wasn't convicted, as if that matters. You said that Dr. Bruce might be giving bad advice in order to line his own pockets. You said "Not in the database, never happened" as a justification for lying. It's ok if you didn't know everything at the start of this conversation. It's not ok to pretend like you've been consistently saying the same thing all along or even understood the reporting standard.
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Did I say bad advise, please, I c l e a r l y said he might have a vested interest in folks going through the whole process with him, not that that's a bad thing, just a fact.

As for the database, I'm not going to even go there, as far as lying and truth, now days that's just a matter of how something is "coded" in a database, I don't agree with the whole inhuman mechanical nature of how that's changed the legal, medical, etc systems, but it is what it is and its silly to play by a different set of rules (no matter how "noble" or "honest") when the other side doesn't play by the same rules.

If you ran yourself and got a clear report, I'd say youd be well to say you were never arrested, if a arrest should show, and if it didn't, guess it wasn't an arrest, maybe just a delay, or maybe a illegal kidnapping.
 
mscard88 said:
James you ought to quit while your behind man. ;)
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Sorry man, but I'm going to stand my ground on this everyday of the week and twice on Sunday's.




And by "this" I simply mean checking all the facts and evidence before you commit, in this case it would have been paying 18bucks, less than a night at the movies, to get a FBI background report done on yourself, you arguing with that??????
 
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