Well another dui thread. I usually see questions from people with multiple dui's but I have just the 1. I blew a .092 at the scene and at the station it was .102. This was 5 years ago during an emergency my brother was in a motorcycle accident and i panicked and drove drunk and accept responsibility. I want to be upfront on my past and tell my criminal history so that it can all be known. I have been arrested at 16 for theft under 300 and I had a curfew arrest at 17. The theft I did 40 hours of community service which I completed. At 19 I was pulled over and my id was chewed up and had to go to court to prove I had a new license. I didnt even have to go inside the court room. My lawyer showed the judge and that was that. My question is considering what I've mentioned do you think i have a good chance of getting a medical 3 or should I stick to a sports pilot? I'm 36 btw and the dui was at 31 for the ones that might be curious.
Dui class 3
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AggieMike88
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In the time between the DUI incident 5 years ago and today, what has been your habit/pattern with beer, wine, or cocktails? One or two with meal or after work? Socially? When relaxing by yourself reading or watching TV? Each day?
AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Read Dr. Bruce Chien’s (@bbchien) responses from this thread. Particularly the list of requirements.
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/what-should-i-expect.127280/
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/what-should-i-expect.127280/
Ok, I replied to your post but think since it had a link it won't show to other users so I'll repost in regular reply. Sorry I am new to the site so I hope I'm replying correctly. I haven't had a drink since the night of the DUI. I was never a heavy drinker and this one night was at a Mexican restaurant with my mother her boyfriend at the time who drove and my girlfriend at the time. My mother and girlfriend and I got a single margarita either 16 or 20 oz can't remember exactly. Well I ended up drinking mine and finishing there's, probably equivalent to another drink when I combined the 2. I think they were pretty strong. Well strong for me. Up until that point I had only really drank a fruity drink here and there for dinners on weekends.
p1l0t
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I've seen a few of these threads to say the least. I think* if you have just the one you could get a class three with a few small hoops to jump through but I'm sure someone with more knowledge will jump in any minute. If you search the other threads though it might be faster. If flying a two-seater is good enough you could just do that. If you want to be able to fly a 'regular' aircraft though it might just take a few extra months. The risk however, is that if you do get a denial you can't even fly sport.
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AggieMike88
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The list of what is needed is in the “What should I expect” thread that I linked.
Brad Z
Final Approach
Not picking on p1l0t or any responses in this thread, but in general I really wish we'd stop pushing the "well you could just skip the medical and go sport pilot" response to DUI threads.
The way I see it, if it's a simple situation, obtaining a medical certificate is generally trivial. If their situation is more complicated because the demonstrate a chain of bad decisions, I'd rather not share the sky with them even as a sport pilot. Just because they can doesn't mean they should, and General Aviation as a whole might benefit from a little self-policing.
To the OP...I'm not picking on you either...and you don't need to explain the details to us...it not really relevant to this audience. Follow the process on the thread AM88 linked and start gathering documentation.
The way I see it, if it's a simple situation, obtaining a medical certificate is generally trivial. If their situation is more complicated because the demonstrate a chain of bad decisions, I'd rather not share the sky with them even as a sport pilot. Just because they can doesn't mean they should, and General Aviation as a whole might benefit from a little self-policing.
To the OP...I'm not picking on you either...and you don't need to explain the details to us...it not really relevant to this audience. Follow the process on the thread AM88 linked and start gathering documentation.
KeepWatch
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Here's a decision chart for the AME. Figure out where you stand on this.....
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...UIDWI_Alcohol_Incidents_Disposition_Table.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...UIDWI_Alcohol_Incidents_Disposition_Table.pdf
I'm sorry about a few things to everyone in the thread, I should have been more clear. I know with my low BAC that I would probably be fine with getting my Medical 3. I was worried about the combination of that and the other arrest when I was a juvenile might screw me up. That's why I bring up the life story about my history.
Brad, I fully understand no offenses are taken. Risking having someone go up who'd carelessly drive drunk is a big concern. Even though my adrenaline spiked I should have calmed down a bit and called an uber or lift or even ran to the location being under 2 miles.
Brad, I fully understand no offenses are taken. Risking having someone go up who'd carelessly drive drunk is a big concern. Even though my adrenaline spiked I should have calmed down a bit and called an uber or lift or even ran to the location being under 2 miles.
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AggieMike88
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@Joecnnd ..... if you ever have a situation that questions your ability to obtain or renew an FAA medical of any class, then the correct course of action is to not go to an AME for a “live” examination that proceeds to a decision of issue, defer, or deny. Rather go to the AME for a consultation and discuss your situation.
During the consultation you can discuss your juvenile incident and the alcohol incident to find out if the combo is a show stopper (imo, they aren’t).
Be aware that, like any profession, the quality of AME runs from the Super Awesome (Like Doc Bruce) to the “I don’t care, I just wanted more alphabet behind my name”. Be ready to go somewhere else if you encounter doctors in the lower end of the spectrum. You want the docs who will take the additional time to educate, guide, and be your advocate.
This is my cut and paste item for consultations:
AME Consultations
When you set the appointment, ask for a consultation, not an examination.
If the AME or his staff ask you to fill out the MedXpress form (FAAa Form 8500-8), it is okay to do so. But be ware there is a way you get snaffoozled by the staff without you knowing about it.
At the bottom of the form when you complete it and print it is a confirmation number. If the staff takes that number and enters it into the FAA medical certification system, your consult just became a live exam. And a live exam must proceed to a decision. A decision of issue, deny or defer. You do not want this.
To avoid the snafoozle, take a pair of scissors and clip off the confirmation number. Put that in your pocket. Now the AME has the info, but no way to open your file on the FAA system.
Proceed with consultation ask your questions, get the guidance, and write down your notes.
The end of the consultation should result in one of two outcomes: (1) the AME says he has enough to issue your certificate right now; or (2) The AME educates you on the requirements and provides a list of things to obtain and bring back for the real exam.
He should also tell you if this will be an in office issuance or a situation where the FAA requires it to be a “deferral” because the issuance decision must be made at a higher level. If deferral, do find out if the AME will go above and beyond as your advocate to make sure the application doesn’t get hung up in channels
During the consultation you can discuss your juvenile incident and the alcohol incident to find out if the combo is a show stopper (imo, they aren’t).
Be aware that, like any profession, the quality of AME runs from the Super Awesome (Like Doc Bruce) to the “I don’t care, I just wanted more alphabet behind my name”. Be ready to go somewhere else if you encounter doctors in the lower end of the spectrum. You want the docs who will take the additional time to educate, guide, and be your advocate.
This is my cut and paste item for consultations:
AME Consultations
When you set the appointment, ask for a consultation, not an examination.
If the AME or his staff ask you to fill out the MedXpress form (FAAa Form 8500-8), it is okay to do so. But be ware there is a way you get snaffoozled by the staff without you knowing about it.
At the bottom of the form when you complete it and print it is a confirmation number. If the staff takes that number and enters it into the FAA medical certification system, your consult just became a live exam. And a live exam must proceed to a decision. A decision of issue, deny or defer. You do not want this.
To avoid the snafoozle, take a pair of scissors and clip off the confirmation number. Put that in your pocket. Now the AME has the info, but no way to open your file on the FAA system.
Proceed with consultation ask your questions, get the guidance, and write down your notes.
The end of the consultation should result in one of two outcomes: (1) the AME says he has enough to issue your certificate right now; or (2) The AME educates you on the requirements and provides a list of things to obtain and bring back for the real exam.
He should also tell you if this will be an in office issuance or a situation where the FAA requires it to be a “deferral” because the issuance decision must be made at a higher level. If deferral, do find out if the AME will go above and beyond as your advocate to make sure the application doesn’t get hung up in channels
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Yeah, I'd like to go to bruce but his website says he's all booked up for awhile .I still might ring him to see if I can run all this by him to get a few questions answered. I was hoping for him to chime in with some words but with what you (aggiemike88) sent me has been great and ill just call him anyways to get the full rundown of how to proceed.
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Dr B is always “at capacity”....however he will still take new cases at his discretion. If you send an email to him through his website, he should be very responsive and let you know one way or another
AggieMike88
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You don’t have to go to Bruce. Many other good ones around the country. Can recommend one in Plano, TX
AggieMike88
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bbchien
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Check out private email. I think this is simple enough that I can manage this....in current time.
p1l0t
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You can though, and depending on their goals it might be the easy way out. I'm pretty sure he'll be fine though. I mean I don't think some petty theft as a teenager effects the medical, does it?
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Brad Z
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Based on what the OP described I’m sure if he’s able to provide the necessary documents and has no other issues he’ll be able to obtain his medical certificate.
But that’s not my point.
I challenge the collective wisdom of suggesting to a random person on the internet with a DUI to circumvent the medical certification process, even if it’s perfectly legal to do so. If somebody tells me he’s had a DUI, that tells me right off the back he’s had at least one issue concerning judgement. I say let the FAA docs sort out his situation. Actions have consequences and waiting on OKC is a small price to pay compared to some of the consequences of drunk driving.
p1l0t
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If what he says is true the way he tells it, I think he's been through enough punishment. Then again I don't see as myself the person responisble for that judgement either. It would certainly be a small thing compared to what he has been through, it's just taking a slight risk of getting completely denied so he can fly with some extra seats. Depends on what he wants to do I guess. If he takes your advice maybe he'll just get it and then the upgrade to 1st class will be easy. Then he might someday fly you and the family on some regional, lol.
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Hello, I just recently was told last night there will be layoffs at my job in probably late Aug. I think I'm going to hold off until then before I jump into this. I want to make sure the money's there. I have 17 years so hopefully I have enough seniority to make it so I don't get it. My boss actually told me a little after I told him about getting a recommendation letter that he doesn't know how far it's going to go back, the layoff that is.
AggieMike88
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Smart choice. Take care of “the four walls” before strapping some wings to them.
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Lindberg
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For many of us, if we were left to self policing, there'd be a lot less policing. But that's beside the point. The FAA is not the last word on who can fly, Congress is. And if Congress has provided a satisfactory avenue for a prospective airman to fly, then he should know about it and have the option to avail himself of it. It's not for me or you or anyone else to substitute our own judgment on who should fly. That's not what people come here for and it's obnoxious when that's what they get. I usually look forward to your very helpful and well informed posts. This, not so much.
bbchien
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I would generally ask members to consider: if this is to be a useful-to-pilots-forum, to try to be "not-snarky", no matter how tempting.
This is NOT about "punishment". It is about, "does the applicant meet criteria?"
This sort of thing is criteria driven.
And to Brad Z's point,all of you guys: This is why self certification (Educated self cert) may fail. We had a local accident in which the pilot's inability to operate right rudder (on basic) may have been critical. And it is unclear that he ever should have had the basic in the first place. And on that I will say nothing further.
This is NOT about "punishment". It is about, "does the applicant meet criteria?"
This sort of thing is criteria driven.
And to Brad Z's point,all of you guys: This is why self certification (Educated self cert) may fail. We had a local accident in which the pilot's inability to operate right rudder (on basic) may have been critical. And it is unclear that he ever should have had the basic in the first place. And on that I will say nothing further.
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Brad Z
Final Approach
Congress can giveth...and Congress can take away as well. Ask the Commercial balloon pilots about flying without a medical certificate in the wake of the 2016 Heart of Texas balloon accident.
bbchien
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Thanks to everyone, you've been incredibly helpful. Normally we have small layoffs by the start of July but getting back after a little over a month of down time due to covid pushed it back a bit. Hopefully I'll be ok but I'll be doing some saving up until then.
p1l0t
Line Up and Wait
That seems like bad piloting skills more than bad judgement. I guess you can always argue bad judgement, never should have departed, never should have woke up in the morning, yada yada... Sounds like his instructor shouldn't have signed him off nor his check airmen passed him though if he can't right rudder. Hey some fatigued pilots crashed a regional after commuting in from the west coast. They had a combined 6k hrs of experience, let's make a 1500hr rule.. (which has worked out great for pilot pay / QOL though so maybe that was the long con).
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Lindberg
Final Approach
That's right. And they're going to do what they do regardless of the advice we give here. That accident had nothing to do with the medical regs. The operation wasn't legal regardless.
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Brad Z
Final Approach
The pilot of the heart of Texas accident had a checked driving history with multiple substance related arrests. While he failed to report them in accordance with 61.15, an NDR check (which is done when one applies for a medical certificate) would have likely uncovered them.
Lindberg
Final Approach
What makes you think he would have submitted to a medical exam if the regs had required him to? Everything about the pilot and the conditions of that flight were illegal. The fact that he had multiple DUIs didn't crash that balloon. So I have no idea how this is germane to advising prospective airmen that they might be able to legally operate without a medical certificate.
Have you ever had an airmen who In your opinion met the “criteria” but the Faa ended up denying the SI?
Brad Z
Final Approach
Ask the families of the 15 victims who pushed Congress to add Section 318 to the 2018 FAA Reauthorization Bill.
Lindberg
Final Approach
They're not the ones who brought it up in this thread.
Brad Z
Final Approach
I'm going to take Bruce's advice...
...and not engage further. I assume that at least everyone else reading thread understands that encouraging potential alcoholics to fly is probably not a great idea for reducing the GA accident rate and will result in bad things for GA as a whole when they eventually crash.
bbchien
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The criteria are a "minimum for consideration". There is a layer of physician judgement exercised both at FAA AND by the HIMS AME, whose scorecard is tracked.
AND I HATE TO BE WRONG.
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Just a thought, given how often this topic comes up. Should there be a DUI sticky in this forum?
bbchien
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I am not a moderator here, that's not up to me.
AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
I am for it.
Same goes for several recurring topics such as
- Consultations
- Anxiety/Depression and associated medications
- ADD/ADHD
- Posts of members who have gone through the process and succeeded in earning their BTDT shirt and medical.
- Advice of not apply for medical until all required items have been completed