dude, I am so high!

[eman1200]

on all 8 landings yesterday, started my roundout too high. all in all, not horrible, I mean I didn't really slam her down, but high high high. the rest of the pattern work looked really good, I thought. and, 14 hours later, I'm still smiling due to how much fun I had!

 

[Captain]

Well the obvious solution is to stop being high when you flare.

 

[wabower]

When you flare, don't land. Instead, add just enough power to fly the length of the runway just above the surface. You'll get much more practice time in tracking, maintaining landing attitude, and gauging your HAT. When you're ready to land just reduce power slightly and it will happen.

 

[eman1200]

ah, the infinite wisdom on this forum. I will pass your theory on to my CFI to see if he agrees. not sure why he didn't recommend that from the beginning.

 

[wabower]

You'll see many instructors advocate this drill, at least a half dozen post on this forum. FWIW, it's also a good exercise for FR's since pilots seldom practice doing it. Landings always improve after a lap or two.

ah, the infinite wisdom on this forum. I will pass your theory on to my CFI to see if he agrees. not sure why he didn't recommend that from the beginning.

 

[eman1200]

You'll see many instructors advocate this drill, at least a half dozen post on this forum. FWIW, it's also a good exercise for FR's since pilots seldom practice doing it. Landings always improve after a lap or two.

sorry Wayne, my comment wasn't meant for you, hope you didn't take it that way. appreciate your input.

 

[Fearless Tower]

ah, the infinite wisdom on this forum. I will pass your theory on to my CFI to see if he agrees. not sure why he didn't recommend that from the beginning.

Probably because your CFI is not the BPITW.....and yes, I know your post wasn't meant for Wayne.

 

[wabower]

Good to know. I am a tender flower.

sorry Wayne, my comment wasn't meant for you, hope you didn't take it that way. appreciate your input.

 

[Captain]

sorry Wayne, my comment wasn't meant for you, hope you didn't take it that way. appreciate your input.

You're the one who came up with the title of this thread. All I did was acknowledge it and carry it forward.

Want some 'infinite wisdom'? If you start a joke and people laugh don't then bash them for it.

 

[eman1200]

You're the one who came up with the title of this thread. All I did was acknowledge it and carry it forward.

Want some 'infinite wisdom'? If you start a joke and people laugh don't then bash them for it.

ok, I thought u were being a wise guy, I didn't pick up on the play on play on words. I'll remove "fire up the bong" from my checklist.

 

[ebykowsky]

ok, I thought u were being a wise guy, I didn't pick up on the play on play on words. I'll remove "fire up the bong" from my checklist.

You really don't need to use a checklist for things that are second nature--just wastes valuable flight time.

 

[JasonM]

I have the opposite problem. I keep flaring to low/late. Are you recording your flights by any chance?

 

[ChrisK]

I have the opposite problem. I keep flaring to low/late. Are you recording your flights by any chance?

I did this during my first solo. My instructor referred to it as "crashing". He is a real softie.

 

[LDJones]

If flaring too high, look further down the runway. It will help.

 

[txflyer]

Sounds like a trim problem. If the aircraft is trimmed right for landing, then there should be very little flare.

The airplane should be trimmed so that it is level in the final descent. You shouldn't be pushing the yoke or having to pull up at all. Just very minor throttle adjustments.

All good landings start with a stable rock solid approach imo. If the plane is getting ahead of you, or behind you, .. go around. And SLOW DOWN! Most flare problems and bouncing Betty landings are because the pilot is coming in too hot.

 

[eman1200]

I have the opposite problem. I keep flaring to low/late. Are you recording your flights by any chance?

well yes, I am recording them but I posted my first and last video on this forum. they (mostly the last video) have been extremely helpful to me but it caused such an uproar that I use a video camera that I refuse to post anymore here. but likeI said, this last video is extremely helpful for me to watch.

If flaring too high, look further down the runway. It will help.

thanks, and I've read that before but I need to execute that better next time.

Sounds like a trim problem. If the aircraft is trimmed right for landing, then there should be very little flare.

The airplane should be trimmed so that it is level in the final descent. You shouldn't be pushing the yoke or having to pull up at all. Just very minor throttle adjustments.

All good landings start with a stable rock solid approach imo. If the plane is getting ahead of you, or behind you, .. go around. And SLOW DOWN! Most flare problems and bouncing Betty landings are because the pilot is coming in too hot.

I definitely was trying to trim but I will pay more attention to this mext time as well.

Thanks y'all.

 

[JasonM]

well yes, I am recording them but I posted my first and last video on this forum. they (mostly the last video) have been extremely helpful to me but it caused such an uproar that I use a video camera that I refuse to post anymore here. but likeI said, this last video is extremely helpful for me to watch.

uproar? Were you flying with the camera in one hand?

I record mine as well and find it very helpful. I also don't post my videos; just out of respect for my instructor. But I cant tell you how much watching my lessons over and over has helped me pick up on things my instructor said in times I was overwhelmed with other tasks to grasp what he said the first time.

I would like to see your early flare though.

 

[Captain]

Just an observation...

I'd stop with the video for the early flare issue. I've not seen your video here but assume you use some mounted camera. With a mounted camera you're not going to get the same perspective and that'll just f you up. Unless you have a POV camera like Google Glass I'd just rely on practice. Its worked for all of us and will for you too.

Sorry if my first post rubbed you wrong. I really was just being funny. I get into heaps of trouble from that around here. Go read a 'Jerk' thread for many examples...

 

[eman1200]

Just an observation...

I'd stop with the video for the early flare issue. I've not seen your video here but assume you use some mounted camera. With a mounted camera you're not going to get the same perspective and that'll just f you up. Unless you have a POV camera like Google Glass I'd just rely on practice. Its worked for all of us and will for you too.

Sorry if my first post rubbed you wrong. I really was just being funny. I get into heaps of trouble from that around here. Go read a 'Jerk' thread for many examples...

nope, it was totally my fault, I misread your post.

but I hear you about video perspective, and honestly I don't really use it too much for that....I use it more to "re"-listen to things my intructor said that I may not have fully ingested while inflight. Like TX said earlier in this thread about trim....when I went back and watched the video I heard where my intructor said to get my trim in there, and that it would help the roundout and flare, but when you're on final those kind of things may not set in right away. also, other than just 'for fun', I can see week to week improvement, specifically radio talk.

now, about being high, well I may just have to cut back on that kinda stuff.

 

[rottydaddy]

If flaring too high, look further down the runway. It will help.

This is very good advice... if you do that consistently, it's game-changing.
A lot of primary students, despite all they've seen and heard, get into the habit of focusing too close to the nose as they land.
Looking way ahead helps fight that urge to pull back that comes when you suddenly think you're going to smash the nosewheel onto the runway (which is usually at more than 10 feet AGL, LOL). It's a common beginner problem; I did it a couple of times; most pilots have. I still find myself saying aloud "end of the runway" to remind myself to look out there. The problem could be that you are over-thinking the "flare", and putting way too much thought and effort into it.Landing is not about diving for the runway, then somehow stopping the descent by pulling back, then hoping you did so at the correct height. Remember, the point of the "flare" is not to stop your descent so much as to transition smoothly from a good steady descent to rolling on the runway. It is definitely not a good time to be looking at the altimeter or over the side, so you must eyeball the horizon and look for a picture similar to (surprise!) what you see when you take off.

Other than always, ALWAYS looking out over the nose as you come close to where you intend to touch down, another good thing is to try a few low passes over the runway, in ground effect (which is within one wingspan of the surface, and ideally you want to do this lower than that). Fly very slowly. (maybe even with the stall horn starting to squeak). This should give you a better idea of what you should be seeing when you are at the ideal height to pull the last of the power out and smoothly add just enough up elevator to kill some more lift and let the airplane settle out of ground effect. It also helps you learn to make that transition smoothly, with elevator and throttle.
A variation on this is a training trick one of my CFIs tried with me: come over the threshold, look down the runway, get into ground effect, start sneaking the last of the power out, then DO NOT LAND. Try as hard as you can to delay the inevitable as you descend towards the runway, but don't just try to pick up the nose with a big pull on the yoke. "Holding it off" like that gets you into the habit of having airspeed, pitch, and power right where they need to be for those last few feet. You will land long the first time you try this (so make sure there's enough room), but you will probably land very smoothly.
I know the "don't land" thing seems to contradict what I said about not trying to stop the descent by "flaring", but trust me- if you try it, you will get it.

 

[Captain]

This is very good advice... if you do that consistently, it's game-changing.
A lot of primary students, despite all they've seen and heard, get into the habit of focusing too close to the nose as they land.
Looking way ahead helps fight that urge to pull back that comes when you suddenly think you're going to smash the nosewheel onto the runway (which is usually at more than 10 feet AGL, LOL). It's a common beginner problem; I did it a couple of times; most pilots have. I still find myself saying aloud "end of the runway" to remind myself to look out there. The problem could be that you are over-thinking the "flare", and putting way too much thought and effort into it.Landing is not about diving for the runway, then somehow stopping the descent by pulling back, then hoping you did so at the correct height. Remember, the point of the "flare" is not to stop your descent so much as to transition smoothly from a good steady descent to rolling on the runway. It is definitely not a good time to be looking at the altimeter or over the side, so you must eyeball the horizon and look for a picture similar to (surprise!) what you see when you take off.

Other than always, ALWAYS looking out over the nose as you come close to where you intend to touch down, another good thing is to try a few low passes over the runway, in ground effect (which is within one wingspan of the surface)and very slow (maybe even with the stall horn starting to squeak). This should give you a better idea of what you should be seeing when you are at the ideal height to pull the last of the power out and smoothly add just enough up elevator to kill some more lift and let the airplane settle out of ground effect. It also helps you learn to make that transition smoothly, with elevator and throttle.

Not me. My first flight lesson my CFI was asking me for tips. I'm the best pilot here (BPH).

 

[rottydaddy]

Not me. My first flight lesson my CFI was asking me for tips. I'm the best pilot here (BPH).

Of course... we all are.

 

[denverpilot]

The airplane should be trimmed so that it is level in the final descent.

Level in a descent. What mumbo jumbo is this?

Trim for hands off flight at an appropriate approach airspeed. Manage descent rate with smooth power adjustments. ... Is what I think you were trying to say.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Not me. My first flight lesson my CFI was asking me for tips. I'm the best pilot here (BPH).

Dude, you've been in the Navy....you know that is not how it works - you make a dumb post, you don't get to name yourself.

It's BPITW.

You went Full Yeager in that thread. You NEVER go Full Yeager...

 

[Geico266]

When you flare, don't land. Instead, add just enough power to fly the length of the runway just above the surface. You'll get much more practice time in tracking, maintaining landing attitude, and gauging your HAT. When you're ready to land just reduce power slightly and it will happen.

+1 . I think this is the best advice for anyone learning how to land a plane. This practice procedure cannot be over emphasized enough IMHO.

 

[Captain]

Dude, you've been in the Navy....you know that is not how it works - you make a dumb post, you don't get to name yourself.

It's BPITW.

You went Full Yeager in that thread. You NEVER go Full Yeager...

Good point. I'll take it.

 

[VWGhiaBob]

What worked for me:

Look farther down the runway to the end...gives you a better perspective on how high you are.

In low wind, I can grease on a 172 every time. Still working on the Cirrus, which is much more difficult and unforgiving.

 

[eman1200]

What worked for me:

Look farther down the runway to the end...gives you a better perspective on how high you are.

In low wind, I can grease on a 172 every time. Still working on the Cirrus, which is much more difficult and unforgiving.

thanks! this seems to be a common response in this thread, and I definitely did not focus farther down the runway, so I'll try this next time!

 

[AggieMike88]

What worked for me:

Look farther down the runway to the end...gives you a better perspective on how high you are.

In low wind, I can grease on a 172 every time. Still working on the Cirrus, which is much more difficult and unforgiving.

thanks! this seems to be a common response in this thread, and I definitely did not focus farther down the runway, so I'll try this next time!

Thinking back to my last batch of landings, switching my focus from 30-50 feet in front of me to the end of the runway is what's helping me to ease down that last few feet, versus a plop.

As folks are saying here, it's about good trim, good power management and good sight picture. Have all of them in the groove and you'll do just fine.

 

[DrMack]

A variation on this is a training trick one of my CFIs tried with me: come over the threshold, look down the runway, get into ground effect, start sneaking the last of the power out, then DO NOT LAND.

Another way to describe this is to continue to fly the airplane all the way to turn off onto the taxiway. As your wheels get closer and closer to touchdown keep thinking to yourself, fly it, fly it, fly it. You will soon be greasing almost every landing.

 

[snoboy]

Well the obvious solution is to stop being high when you flare.

He's been told that numerous times

 

[bbchien]

One of my techniques when starting ab initio is to coach the first three landings w/o any hand on....having said I am likely to take over (but will say so). A corner of my eye is on the altimeter.

Students at 75 mph are very very consistent at determining at which point the numbers are just rushing up too fast and they pull. After three times, you've really established when the "visual altimeter alarm" is going to go off, and you can setup his/her landing technique around that height very very reliably.

For one fellow it's 30 feet. For another is 15 feet, and on and on. But it IS reproduce-able.

 

[denverpilot]

For one fellow it's 30 feet. For another is 15 feet, and on and on. But it IS reproduce-able.

Had anyone decide to do it at 50', and sent them back to the optometrist?

 

[danhagan]

Not me. My first flight lesson my CFI was asking me for tips. I'm the best pilot here (BPH).

Sounds like my experience. My CFI indicated I was ready for the checkride during the discovery flight

Edit: True Story Time:

My highschool buddy took me flying a couple of times and I ended up gettng the "bug". Had watched my buddies Sporty's tapes prior to discovery flight. CFI indicated I would do the take off with him verbally telling me what to do and would intervene if necessary (he didn't have to - but also minimal xwind). Re-entering the pattern he said he would take over if I got into any issues and would give me verbal instructions for RPM settings, checklist items, etc. and to stay heads up. I fully expected him to take over on base or final ... he didn't ... I REALLY expected him to take over at the flare and landing ... he didn't but was ready to ... he did take over on roll out as he wanted to control the braking. He was impressed.

And now, the REST of the story:
Once I started to learn the concepts, I had several lessons where I couldn't land correctly to save my life ... he laughed and said it was normal. He called the landings in the intial training my "carrier" landings ... quite a few "plops" ... he'd say, "don't let it land, don't let it land" and I didn't plopping it from about 1-2 feet.

 

[dmspilot]

Level in a descent. What mumbo jumbo is this?

Must be the same mumbo jumbo the FAA used to write the Airplane Flying Handbook.

 

[Jim Logajan]

on all 8 landings yesterday, started my roundout too high. all in all, not horrible, I mean I didn't really slam her down, but high high high.

Possible solutions:

(1) Go land at an airport with a higher field elevation sufficient to close the gap.

(2) Use an airplane with longer gear legs.

(3) Stand up in your seat so your sight picture matches what you expect yet makes your wheels come closer to the runway.

(4) Wait till somebody else is trying to land and follow them in, matching their descent path. Following a large plane is good for this because you get immediate feedback on when you are near their descent path.

 

[eman1200]

Possible solutions:

(1) Go land at an airport with a higher field elevation sufficient to close the gap.

(2) Use an airplane with longer gear legs.

(3) Stand up in your seat so your sight picture matches what you expect yet makes your wheels come closer to the runway.

(4) Wait till somebody else is trying to land and follow them in, matching their descent path. Following a large plane is good for this because you get immediate feedback on when you are near their descent path.

1) funny

2) funny

3) funny

4) dooshy

 

[Seanaldinho]

Just saw this thread -

One time before going flying I looked to my buddy (the two of us are 17) and said "Let's get high!"

Several of the older pilots threw me a sideways glance... good times.

 

[eman1200]

Just saw this thread -

One time before going flying I looked to my buddy (the two of us are 17) and said "Let's get high!"

Several of the older pilots threw me a sideways glance... good times.

that's awesome!

 

[denverpilot]

Must be the same mumbo jumbo the FAA used to write the Airplane Flying Handbook.

What's that got to do with the (bad) advice that all approaches should be done that way?