Dual Garmin G5 install question

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
When you install a Dual G5 setup, do you still need to retain some of the other "round dial" instruments? Which ones?

Someone posed the question to me recently and I want to find the right answer.
 
The G5 PFD/ADI can replace either the primary attitude indicator or turn coordinator. The G5 DG/HSI can replace the primary DG or HSI. All the rest of the flight instruments must remain.
 
Jesse Saint said:
The G5 PFD/ADI can replace either the primary attitude indicator or turn coordinator. The G5 DG/HSI can replace the primary DG or HSI. All the rest of the flight instruments must remain.
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Thanks for the help!
 
AggieMike88 said:
Thanks for the help!
Click to expand...

Yep, I can verify the Jesse's post. I have a pair. Basically, dual installs come in really only one flavor: AI and HSI. That would replace the AI, DG, and CDI as primary. The other "instruments" on the display are not primary. You could ditch the VSI, if you like, as it's not required at all, so not having a primary isn't an issue.
 
Were you able to remove the vacuum system?
 
AggieMike88 said:
Were you able to remove the vacuum system?
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Yes, that is a big advantage, removing the vac system. You can also remove the CDI, which opens up a nice spot for an engine monitor or other device. One caveat is if you you cannot replace a TC or AI if it is required to drive the autopilot. So if you have a rate-based autopilot you can only replace the AI with the G5. They are great, especially at night!
 
chemgeek said:
Yes, that is a big advantage, removing the vac system. You can also remove the CDI, which opens up a nice spot for an engine monitor or other device. One caveat is if you you cannot replace a TC or AI if it is required to drive the autopilot. So if you have a rate-based autopilot you can only replace the AI with the G5. They are great, especially at night!
Click to expand...
Upgrade plan includes GFC500
 
arnoha said:
Yep, I can verify the Jesse's post. I have a pair. Basically, dual installs come in really only one flavor: AI and HSI. That would replace the AI, DG, and CDI as primary. The other "instruments" on the display are not primary. You could ditch the VSI, if you like, as it's not required at all, so not having a primary isn't an issue.
Click to expand...
The dual G5 could also replace the Turn Coordinator, DG and CDI (CDI can only be replaced for radios that have a digital signal for needles, either RS232 or ARINC). Some auto pilots require the Attitude Indicator, in which case you would want to replace the Turn Coordinator. The STEC auto pilots require the Turn Coordinator, in which case you would replace the Attitude Indicator. If there is no auto pilot or it is an STEC, then you can remove your vacuum system unless you have a vacuum HSI connected to an analog radio that will not talk to the G5 HSI.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Yes, if you don’t need the vacuum system for anything else... I lost about 20lbs between vac system and the electric backup.
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weigh the plane... i was surprised to see 30 lb or so weight gain after removing a crap load of stuff including vacuum system + stand by. 40 yrs of calculated W&B takes a toll
 
WannFly said:
dual G5 + GFC 500 here, kept 4 round dials, no vac system
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Photo of your panel would be much appreciated.

This is for a group owned aircraft, and providing images helps members understand what end result might look like.
 
20190809_225135-jpg.77577


No Autopilot though. Put it where something you don't have is.
 
Ugh, I would hate having the radios on the right side.
 
yupp i dont like that very much, but with Garmin push-to-command, i havent touched the nav/com 2 or the audio panel in a while
 
AggieMike88 said:
Were you able to remove the vacuum system?
Click to expand...

Aspen EFD 1000 Pro here. Vacuum system gone. Backup AI is electric (has slip/skid indicator). Backup altimeter and VSI in panel. Trutrak AP went in where the old GS indicator #1 was.
 
AggieMike88 said:
What is the device above the tip G5? AoA?
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yah Alpha systems. i wish it was mounted on the glare-shield though and i should have moved it up there during my panel work to keep it in the field of vision during landing
 
Jesse Saint said:
The dual G5 could also replace the Turn Coordinator, DG and CDI (CDI can only be replaced for radios that have a digital signal for needles, either RS232 or ARINC). Some auto pilots require the Attitude Indicator, in which case you would want to replace the Turn Coordinator. The STEC auto pilots require the Turn Coordinator, in which case you would replace the Attitude Indicator. If there is no auto pilot or it is an STEC, then you can remove your vacuum system unless you have a vacuum HSI connected to an analog radio that will not talk to the G5 HSI.
Click to expand...

It can replace the the TC, but has anyone done a TC and HSI pair and left the AI? It doesn't really make much sense. And AI and TC also doesn't line up well...why would you do that? I may be missing something. This is based on the assumption that either the AI or the TC is needed for the AP and must be retained. (And if no AP or no retention need, AI/HSI makes the most sense nearly always for a dual.)

And, yes, I removed the vac system! 22 lbs. and a lot of routine headache, what with instruments or pumps failing regularly. That was the thing that really pushed me to get both. That and reversion.

@bnt83 172 SP steam gauge with an MFD sticks the second radio out there, too. My transponder is still out there, but my panel upgrade let me move the COM2 closer. With the GTN750, I don't have to touch the GTX345 if I don't want to.

http://www.wvfc.org/aircraft/n194sp has some pics of the panel.
 
arnoha said:
@bnt83 172 SP steam gauge with an MFD sticks the second radio out there, too. My transponder is still out there, but my panel upgrade let me move the COM2 closer. With the GTN750, I don't have to touch the GTX345 if I don't want to.

http://www.wvfc.org/aircraft/n194sp has some pics of the panel.
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That's a good design IMHO. The 177 has the transponder way over on the CP side under the crap box (glove box), I never touch it as I remote control it from the GTN. If the GTN ever quit I'd still have mode C control and audio panel control.

upload_2020-7-23_14-26-31.png
 
bnt83 said:
That's a good design IMHO. The 177 has the transponder way over on the CP side under the crap box (glove box), I never touch it as I remote control it from the GTN. If the GTN ever quit I'd still have mode C control and audio panel control.

View attachment 88137
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Thanks. It works well, with a pair of exceptions: First, the USB power location should have been awesome...right in the middle so everything reaches and minimizes cable. Didn't think that through...cables are in the way of everything and they drape over the power controls, too. Next update will move that somewhere else...haven't really figured out the right spot yet.

The other issue is that the digital fuel gauge at the left doesn't integrate into the panel dimmer. Three shops took a shot at it and gave up. So, you have to scroll through menus to set the brightness. And you must for night flight if you don't want to be blinded by what is minimally visible in the day. Wouldn't be that bad, except that it's a leaseback, so I get the occasional squawk on the gauge that is really just the brightness too low.

I want a GI-275 EIS, but can't justify the cost. Would ditch so much! Fuel gauge, oil pressure/temp, volt/amp/OAT, tach, vac/amp, EGT/fuel flow. And would add CHT. Set of GAMMI's and I could go LOP. Six out, one in, complete with backup battery, and a useful new function. Just need, what, around $8,000 installed? sigh...priorities...bought a house recently and its lighting money on fire faster than the plane. That's saying something.

EDIT: almost the volt/amp/OAT...that also includes the clock, so I'd have to add back in a clock to stay IFR. I should check if the GTN-750 has the ability to be a primary clock.
 
arnoha said:
The other issue is that the digital fuel gauge at the left doesn't integrate into the panel dimmer. Three shops took a shot at it and gave up. So, you have to scroll through menus to set the brightness. And you must for night flight if you don't want to be blinded by what is minimally visible in the day. Wouldn't be that bad, except that it's a leaseback, so I get the occasional squawk on the gauge that is really just the brightness too low.
Click to expand...

I've got an FL202D on a stand-alone dimmer that works pretty good. The dimmer itself is tiny and I broke the knob shaft off the first one I installed.
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bourns-inc/3862C-282-102AL/3862C-282-102AL-ND/2534589
upload_2020-7-23_14-47-20.png
 
bnt83 said:
I've got an FL202D on a stand-alone dimmer that works pretty good. The dimmer itself is tiny and I broke the knob shaft off the first one I installed.
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bourns-inc/3862C-282-102AL/3862C-282-102AL-ND/2534589
View attachment 88140
Click to expand...

Yeah, should do that...it was presented. Ran out of time each time before doing that. Maybe the next time it visits an avionics shop. Need to find a new avionics shop...my last favorite one moved away and my club's favorite likes jets better (not sure why the club likes them so much), so prices are high. And the one on field is...difficult to work with.
 
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