Drunk Pilots Flying

brien23

brien23

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Brien
It seems like more and more airline pilots are in the news for flying drunk. What ramifications would the first officer get turning in the captain as being drunk on a airliner. Or at least a call on the company freq. to let someone know what he suspects. Seems like their should be some sort of whistle blower protection for passenger safety.
 
You mean ramifications other than the Captain being mad at the FO? I can't see how the company would take action on the FO, especially if the Captain tested above the limit, or even below the limit.
 
Was there a recent incident other than the FO that got tagged in Detroit awhile back? I'm not really seeing a rash of these incidents, but perhaps I''m just missing them. I can name some things for passengers to be nervous about when boarding an airliner, but intoxicated pilots is not even close to one of them.

As far as an FO being a whistleblower, this isn't the 1950's. I got crap from my FO last week for (accidentally) doing 270 below 10K. Do you think he's going to let me get to the airplane if he suspects that I'm intoxicated? ;)

I don't claim to know every last thing about the industry, but I can state with confidence that there's no culture of looking the other way when it comes to this sort of thing. If someone is intoxicated and the other guy is aware of it, I can't imagine a scenario where it won't be stopped. We're all on seniority lists, nobody is concerned about whether or not they're protected.
 
We are all ignoring the fact that it is highly probable that there are an equal number of FOs flying drunk. It is a team up there in the front office, and both team members are human. -Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
We are all ignoring the fact that it is highly probable that there are an equal number of FOs flying drunk. It is a team up there in the front office, and both team members are human. -Skip
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Statistically likely true. But I think the OP was wondering whether an FO would be concerned about turning in his superior. Those same concerns would not likely exist in the other direction (but there might be others).
 
kayoh190 said:
I don't claim to know every last thing about the industry, but I can state with confidence that there's no culture of looking the other way when it comes to this sort of thing. If someone is intoxicated and the other guy is aware of it, I can't imagine a scenario where it won't be stopped. We're all on seniority lists, nobody is concerned about whether or not they're protected.
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THIS^^^^^
 
kayoh190 said:
As far as an FO being a whistleblower, this isn't the 1950's. I got crap from my FO last week for (accidentally) doing 270 below 10K..
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C'mon it was your 'going home' leg wasn't it? ;):D
I used to tell FOs, hey the AIM says +- 10 knots!
 
Even as an employee at a company with no union and no seniority list, I have no doubt that the FO would not face any consequences for reporting a drunk Captain. This is not the 1960s.
 
Everskyward said:
Even as an employee at a company with no union and no seniority list, I have no doubt that the FO would not face any consequences for reporting a drunk Captain. This is not the 1960s.
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Yep, very true. In fact, the FO, or Capt if it were the FO, could be in hot water if they knew the other pilot's condition but choose not to report it.
 
The only place I can see this being a problem might be in a small 91 operation where the Captain is the owner, or is drinking buddies with the owner...
 
Are we talking about the movie "Flight" with Denzel Washington ?? :) That is an example of a functioning alcoholic!
 
If the captain was suspect of being drunk by a flight attendant or ramp rat or any other underling of the airline and reported it, would the airline do anything. And what might happen to them.
 
If a pilot that has problems with alcohol asks for help, they will be entered into a program to help him. He won't be flying during this time. He also has to work on getting his medical back (proof of sobriety, etc.. whatever the FAA does, I'm not sure). He won't, however, be jailed or fired if he didn't do anything illegal.

There is absolutely no recourse for turning a fellow FAA-regulated employee in for alcohol abuse. Now, the proper way to do it is get the person in question to call out sick or otherwise not attempt to go to work and then get them into the above program. It's the last chance to save his career (and possibly his marriage, or even life) because once you show up at the airport, the intent to fly is there and it will not end well if caught.

"Either you're calling out sick or I am and when they ask why I called out sick I'll tell the truth" will usually get the proper response from someone.
 
THAT! ^^^

Know of a couple who were 'saved' in spite of themselves.
 
My union and company are part of the HIMS program. There have been cases of guys getting caught and the other crew member was violated by the FAA for not turning them in. (for the naysayers that this couldn't happen...it did...I am very close friends with the guy the Feds went after..how am I supposed to know how much someone has drank or when?)
As has been stated...if a pilot says "I need help PRIOR to being caught then everyone bends over backwards to help them. If they get caught then they are crucified. I personally feel that the incidents with pilots is no more than in any other profession but it is more dramatic sounding.

We had one case of a low down scumbag jerk Captain that turned a crew in for drinking outside of the 8 hours bottle to throttle because HE felt that they shouldn't. No reason to other than he is a jerk. No evidence from testing of the two other crew members. Caused a tremendous amount of problems for the company to fly another crew to Europe to pick up the plane and continue. Thankfully cost this Captain two months off without pay and scorn of the pilot group. He was and is a jerk.

The cockpit is a small place...
 
Over the years, I was able to get several (ground) employees into the Special Health program. Unlike aircrew, if the ground employee was caught on duty, they could often be offered the choice of the Program, or termination. That is a strong motivator. When both the boss and the Union Rep are shoving this program in your face, listening is wise. All my guys "got it" and subsequently became the best employees on staff. Except one, who eventually did suicide.
 
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