DPE using cellphone during checkride?

U

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First off let me tell everyone that I failed my check ride under this particular DPE. I re-took another checkride with a different DPE from another FSDO. This was primarily because I moved to a different part of the state several weeks after. My cert was granted last year.

Synopsis:

During the flying part of my checkride, my examiner looked down at his iPhone probably 3-4 times (each maybe 5-10 sec at a time) while we were leaving the vicinity of the airport to go to a practice area to do maneuvers. I believe he was sending and receiving text messages. Shortly after this, someone called him and he picked up and told the person he was busy and hung up after about 20 sec.

Somebody called him again a few minutes later and this time he answered the phone, told the person to call back later (I think...He moved the mic away from his face so I couldn't hear much...). However, this time he seemed to be hung up on something with the person on the other end, and he ended up having a 1-2 minute chat with the person on the end.

At the end of the checkride I told the examiner that he came off as arrogant and I didn't like how he conducted the examination...However, I never directly told him that his cell phone usage made me uncomfortable. I was upset; maybe I shouldn't have said anything, but I knew I was not going to be testing with him again because of the move, so it didn't matter to me one way or the other.

A few days later I called my local FSDO and asked the first person who picked up (I have no idea who she is) if its alright for an examiner to use a cellphone mid examination, and she told me (verbatim) "this doesn't sound kosher." But she said that the person who handles DPE inquiries was out and I needed to leave a message or call back. I elected to call back, but the move got in the way and I never found time to call. Also, I passed the PP exam shortly after this, so the happiness from that really made me forget about the situation.

It has been several months since this incident, and I don't know what I should do. I don't really care, but at the same time I don't think it's "kosher" for an examiner (who's getting paid hundreds or dollars for his services!) to use any kind of electronic device during an exam.

Also, the examiner in question is known to be a bit of an eccentric guy. I feel like if I bring something like this up to the FSDO, it'll just create more trouble and I'll get sucked into some bureaucratic vortex...which is something I'd rather not deal with.

So what should I do? Report it? Let it go?

I do not want to do a re-test with the FAA.

Thanks
 
In my opinion, you should do nothing. You got your PP. Now go fly, have fun, and forget about this DPE.

I mean, seriously, what do you hope to accomplish by reporting him? Restoring rightness and balance to the world so everything will be perfect? If so, you're living in a fantasy land. The DPE's use of a cell phone in flight may have been stupid and probably violates FCC regulations, but it's not exactly the crime of the century. Neither is being "eccentric." If his eccentricity results in inconsistent or unfair checkride results, he will find himself out of work soon enough without your assistence.

The other possibility is that maybe you're just a spoiled brat who never had anyone say "no" to you before, and your world will never seem right again until you get even with the horrible person who introduced you to the reality that you are not, in fact, the center of the universe. If that's the case, then you'll just wind up making a bigger fool of yourself by reporting the DPE.

Of course, I don't know you, so I have no idea which is true: whether you're a crusader for all that is good and right, or a spoiled baby who needs his (or her) boo-boos kissed. Either way, my advice is to forget about it and go fly. There's nothing to be gained, and possibly enemies to be made, in making a federal case over a few cell phone calls.

-Rich
 
Aileron input during power on stall

Emergency landing, failure to use checklist before 500ft


I don't have much else to say. I guess I could write about every detail in regards to the checkride...but it doesn't matter. It was a pretty standard checkride.

I know I made mistakes and I failed. I corrected my mistakes and I passed another checkride with a different DPE.

The DPE in question did absolutely nothing wrong besides using his cellphone.
 
As usual, I'll cite to Rich - whose wisdom and directness are refreshing.

I'd add, however, that, from my observations, the result of involving the FAA is rarely what you expect, and even less rarely, what you desire (actually, this principle applies to any governmental agency, not just the FAA, and represents the natural inclination of most bureaucratic agencies). Example: Pilot believes shop did poor job on a piece of work - calls FAA to make inquiry; FAA audits aircraft logs, finds multiple instances of "paper" violations (things which are not involved with safe operation or maintenance of the aircraft, but in that particular inspector's opinion and discretion, were not documented properly). Result: many thousands of dollars of additional expense with no tangible benefit. And, the shop never had a consequence.

Choose wisely.

And, for future reference, when next you find yourself engaged in a transaction in which a government official (or designee) has your fate in his or her hands, don't throw down on them; that's just foolish.
 
RJM62 said:
In my opinion, you should do nothing. You got your PP. Now go fly, have fun, and forget about this DPE.

I mean, seriously, what do you hope to accomplish by reporting him? Restoring rightness and balance to the world so everything will be perfect? If so, you're living in a fantasy land. The DPE's use of a cell phone in flight may have been stupid and probably violates FCC regulations, but it's not exactly the crime of the century. Neither is being "eccentric." If his eccentricity results in inconsistent or unfair checkride results, he will find himself out of work soon enough without your assistence.

The other possibility is that maybe you're just a spoiled brat who never had anyone say "no" to you before, and your world will never seem right again until you get even with the horrible person who introduced you to the reality that you are not, in fact, the center of the universe. If that's the case, then you'll just wind up making a bigger fool of yourself by reporting the DPE.

Of course, I don't know you, so I have no idea which is true: whether you're a crusader for all that is good and right, or a spoiled baby who needs his (or her) boo-boos kissed. Either way, my advice is to forget about it and go fly. There's nothing to be gained, and possibly enemies to be made, in making a federal case over a few cell phone calls.

-Rich
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Hi,

Yes I guess you could say I'm a bit of a brat, but at the same time I'm a fair person.

When I pay a professional hundreds of dollars to offer me a professional service, I expect it to be law abiding and be done correctly.

If this is something that is a big deal (thats why Im here to get opinions) I'll report him. Otherwise I will let it go. No biggie.
 
It sounds to me you are just angry you failed and want to lash back at the DPE. I also suspect had you passed under him none of the cell phone stuff would have ever surfaced.

Let it go and move on.
 
The question I would have should you report is:

What would you be reporting? A violation of FCC regulations regarding airborne use of devices that can transmit in the 800 MHz band?

If so, why did you, the pilot-in-command, permit the violation to occur during the check-ride?

You know that examiners sometimes do things to see if you will call them on it, right?
 
Unregistered said:
Hi,

Yes I guess you could say I'm a bit of a brat, but at the same time I'm a fair person.

When I pay a professional hundreds of dollars to offer me a professional service, I expect it to be law abiding and be done correctly.

If this is something that is a big deal (thats why Im here to get opinions) I'll report him. Otherwise I will let it go. No biggie.
Click to expand...

Being fair is admirable. Believing that the rest of the world is fair is naive.

Go fly.

-Rich
 
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RotorAndWing said:
It sounds to me you are just angry you failed and want to lash back at the DPE. I also suspect had you passed under him none of the cell phone stuff would have ever surfaced.

Let it go and move on.
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Yes this is probably the best option.

So far this doesn't seem like some major red flag violation. I will let it go. I break rules, you break rules, we all break rules. No big deal.
 
JeffDG said:
The question I would have should you report is:

What would you be reporting? A violation of FCC regulations regarding airborne use of devices that can transmit in the 800 MHz band?

If so, why did you, the pilot-in-command, permit the violation to occur during the check-ride?

You know that examiners sometimes do things to see if you will call them on it, right?
Click to expand...

:rofl:

Do you also wonder why the passengers heirs on the hijacked plane that crashed in Penn on 9/11 don't have to pay a penalty for using their phones before they crashed? :rolleyes:
 
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Use by a passenger of a cell phone (or any other portable electronic device) in flight without the PIC's approval is a violation of 14 CFR 91.21. You were the PIC, and the DPE was your passenger. Did you brief your passenger on those rules? Is it possible this was a test of your knowledge of the regulations and responsibility as PIC?
 
Geico266 said:
:rofl:

Do you also wonder why the passengers heirs on the hijacked plane that crashed in Penn on 9/11 don't have to pay a penalty for using their phones before they crashed? :rolleyes:
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I thought they were using the airline-provided air-phones.

There's also "emergency" authority to use just about any frequency necessary in an emergency situation embedded in the FCC regulations as well.
 
Ron Levy said:
Use by a passenger of a cell phone (or any other portable electronic device) in flight without the PIC's approval is a violation of 14 CFR 91.21. You were the PIC, and the DPE was your passenger. Did you brief your passenger on those rules? Is it possible this was a test of your knowledge of the regulations and responsibility as PIC?
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Yeah, like the DPE standing about 3 feet behind me as I was sumping fuel deciding that that was a great time to light-up...

I responded with a polite "Sir, you can smoke if you like, you can watch me sump fuel from the tanks if you like, however, you cannot do both simultaneously."

Don't know if he was testing me, or was just a nicotine addict...either way, I'm not a fan of having an ignition source in close proximity to 100LL.
 
JeffDG said:
Yeah, like the DPE standing about 3 feet behind me as I was sumping fuel deciding that that was a great time to light-up...

I responded with a polite "Sir, you can smoke if you like, you can watch me sump fuel from the tanks if you like, however, you cannot do both simultaneously."

Don't know if he was testing me, or was just a nicotine addict...either way, I'm not a fan of having an ignition source in close proximity to 100LL.
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You Canadians are so polite. Being Brooklyn-born and -bred myself, I probably would have said something more along the lines of, "Put out the &*^%@ cigarette, you moron!" And then failed.

-Rich
 
Ron Levy said:
Use by a passenger of a cell phone (or any other portable electronic device) in flight without the PIC's approval is a violation of 14 CFR 91.21. You were the PIC, and the DPE was your passenger. Did you brief your passenger on those rules? Is it possible this was a test of your knowledge of the regulations and responsibility as PIC?
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It is also in violation of this:

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div8&node=47:2.0.1.1.2.8.27.12

§22.925 Prohibition on airborne operation of cellular telephones.
Cellular telephones installed in or carried aboard airplanes, balloons or any other type of aircraft must not be operated while such aircraft are airborne (not touching the ground). When any aircraft leaves the ground, all cellular telephones on board that aircraft must be turned off. The following notice must be posted on or near each cellular telephone installed in any aircraft:

“The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is airborne is prohibited by FCC rules, and the violation of this rule could result in suspension of service and/or a fine. The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is on the ground is subject to FAA regulations.”
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FLAME ON
 
DPE on the phone fine by me. Maybe he or she will be too busy looking at the screen to see me mess up.
 
When I took my IR checkride, the first thing the examiner did after getting in the plane was plug his phone in to a headset adapter. "Yeah I use these things in the air and you will too." He was right.

Let it go. There are bigger problems in the world to worry about.
 
I thought they (mythbusters) proved that fuel could not be ignited by a cigarette / Cigar.

All those movies where the tough guy throws his stogie in a puddle lightnga trail of fuel leading to and igniting the proverbial stack of 55 gallon drums of something explosive were proven to be impossible.

Just tell the guy. You can smoke here but light it over there.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
I thought they (mythbusters) proved that fuel could not be ignited by a cigarette / Cigar.

All those movies where the tough guy throws his stogie in a puddle lightnga trail of fuel leading to and igniting the proverbial stack of 55 gallon drums of something explosive were proven to be impossible.

Just tell the guy. You can smoke here but light it over there.
Click to expand...

To me it is like looking at an icing airmet with low clouds and freezing rain and saying "yeah I can probably make it through this". I'll tell the guy not to smoke near a fueling operation just for peace of mind =)
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I thought they (mythbusters) proved that fuel could not be ignited by a cigarette / Cigar.

All those movies where the tough guy throws his stogie in a puddle lightnga trail of fuel leading to and igniting the proverbial stack of 55 gallon drums of something explosive were proven to be impossible.
Click to expand...
Regardless of that, it's still a violation of insurance and fire safety rules (including some which are actually law). My advice is "just say no" to anyone who wants to smoke anywhere near the plane when fuel is being handled, especially on a practical test (where it may be part of the test).
 
To say you can't use a phone in flight is technically correct.

Now, take a look at all the aviation headsets with Bluetooth interfaces for your phone, all the aviation related apps there are and so on. Do you think many people are following these rules? Has the FAA given any signal it intends to after private pilots for violating it?

In other words, effectively nobody cares.
 
I thought it was the FCC (not the FAA) that had an issue with the Cell Phones.
I could be way off thought. Something abut connecting to many towers at once causing blockages or something. I have a vague recollection of somethign like that.
 
Maybe it was all part of his test to see how you handle distractions. You were so distracted and bothered by a cell phone, you failed to focus on more important procedures that would keep you alive.
 
The time to call the DPE on this was during the exam.

All a report will do now is say "I wasn't acting as PIC during my check ride."

I'd have asked if it was an emergency. If the answer was yes, turn back. If no, put it away.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I thought it was the FCC (not the FAA) that had an issue with the Cell Phones.
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It is, but the FAA still has a general rule on use of any portable electronic device including but not limited to cell phones -- 14 CFR 91.21. The most critical part of that rule for this situation is that the PIC must approve the use.
 
Aviation is a surprisingly small community. Pick your battles with other participants very carefully.

Not to mention reporting him takes time and effort...how much of each do you want to spend on the DPE, now that you have your PP?
 
Write a letter to the FSDO having jurisdiction over this examiner with your complaint. A student puts forth a lot of effort these days to prepare for a PP practical test and pays an expensive fee ($70-$100 per hour) to take that test. (Assuming you used a DPE) If it was an FAA inspecter giving the test, his actions were unprofessional as well. The applicant deserves no less than full attention and professionalism from the examiner. The FAA also entrusts the examiner with making a proper evaluation of the applicant. The examiner should not be taking phone calls on you check ride.
 
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JeffDG said:
Jet-A, probably correct.

But I'd bet that 100LL could be ignited by a cigarette, and most certainly, 100LL fumes can.
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I envision a test of this in someone's future with a report (and/or video) posted back to this thread.
 
frfly172 said:
would you have been upset ,if you had passed?
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Yes, probably. I take public transportation almost every day to work. I have reported bus operators for using cell phones during transit duty. I guess I'm a jerk… But then again some public transit operators make 100k+ in my area–I have no sympathy. Their only responsibility is to maintain safe control of the bus and to (loosely) follow a schedule. There's no reason why they need to be fiddling with their cellphones, jeopardizing the safety of the passengers.
 
Unregistered said:
Yes, probably. I take public transportation almost every day to work. I have reported bus operators for using cell phones during transit duty. I guess I'm a jerk… But then again some public transit operators make 100k+ in my area–I have no sympathy. Their only responsibility is to maintain safe control of the bus and to (loosely) follow a schedule. There's no reason why they need to be fiddling with their cellphones, jeopardizing the safety of the passengers.
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So, in this case, you want to report someone else for your violation of FCC and FAA regulations.

While acting as pilot-in-command, you permitted a passenger to use a cell phone that could transmit on the 800 MHz band in violation of FCC regulations. That's you, not the DPE.

While acting as PIC, you permitted a passenger to utilize portable electronic devices without authorization, and without ensuring that such devices would not have a deleterious impact on the aircraft's navigation systems, in violation of FAA regulations.

So, good luck with your report to the FSDO.
 
I don't get upset when people use cell phones to talk while driving, as long as they aren't staring down and texting vs. looking at the road. As a pilot, I think one -should- have enough multitasking ability to talk and drive at the same time. We talk and fly at the same time right? And read maps, and turn knobs, run through checklists, etc... right?

Cops do it. So do firemen. Truckers are allowed to use a hand held mic while driving.

Just sayin.
 
Clip4 said:
Write a letter to the FSDO having jurisdiction over this examiner with your complaint. A student puts forth a lot of effort these days to prepare for a PP practical test and pays an expensive fee ($70-$100 per hour) to take that test. (Assuming you used a DPE) If it was an FAA inspecter giving the test, his actions were unprofessional as well. The applicant deserves no less than full attention and professionalism from the examiner. The FAA also entrusts the examiner with making a proper evaluation of the applicant. The examiner should not be taking phone calls on you check ride.
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You have the same mentality that I do. My guy was getting paid nearly 100$ an hour, and I expect him to be doing his job.

Before I went to bed, I did go over the series of events again in my head. I must say that I did remember something that I DID NOT include in the original post. I apologize for this, but this is something that I really just pushed out of my brain after I passed my checkride

When the examiner and I first stepped into the airplane, I told him that he should close the door and just open the window because I was afraid of my paperwork going out the door. He looked at me straight in the eye and said "it's alright, I'll just leave the door open."

Immediately after this I told him that I was PIC and that he needed to close the door. I said this with a big grin on my face because I thought the examiner was pulling a trick on me.

Again, he looked at me directly in the eyes with a straight face and said, "Look, it's hot and I'm not going to fail you. Stop asking me to close the door."

This wasn't some kind of trick. He was genuinely very hot and wanted to keep the door open. I feel like this was one of the reasons why I didn't tell him to put the cellphone away. I was afraid he would simply disregard me.

Also, the guy flies for a corporate charter company and was not having a "good day" (out of his mouth). Before we even began the check ride, he was standing outside talking to his associate on the phone about a broken component on a turboprop. He continued to check his phone periodically during the oral portion, but only after I answered a question. He was not trying to trick me by pulling out his phone..He really seemed to have a lot of things going on that day with his other job.

At this point I don't care about getting back at him. Mistakes happen, boo hoo. I don't get why so many of you think I cannot accept my mistake. I was interested in reporting him just so whoever tests with him next doesn't have to deal with his cell phone use. But at this point the general consensus here seems like I should just let it go. Which is more than likely what I will do.
 
I think that DPE is not a professional nor would I ever use or recommend him

That said I don't think its worth involving a FSDO

The only reason I would involve a FSDO is if I, or a student, were incorrectly failed.
 
Its a non-issue. As was the door. Stick the paperwork under your thigh and get on with it. Heh.
 
Unregistered said:
You have the same mentality that I do. My guy was getting paid nearly 100$ an hour, and I expect him to be doing his job.

Before I went to bed, I did go over the series of events again in my head. I must say that I did remember something that I DID NOT include in the original post. I apologize for this, but this is something that I really just pushed out of my brain after I passed my checkride

When the examiner and I first stepped into the airplane, I told him that he should close the door and just open the window because I was afraid of my paperwork going out the door. He looked at me straight in the eye and said "it's alright, I'll just leave the door open."

Immediately after this I told him that I was PIC and that he needed to close the door. I said this with a big grin on my face because I thought the examiner was pulling a trick on me.

Again, he looked at me directly in the eyes with a straight face and said, "Look, it's hot and I'm not going to fail you. Stop asking me to close the door."

This wasn't some kind of trick. He was genuinely very hot and wanted to keep the door open. I feel like this was one of the reasons why I didn't tell him to put the cellphone away. I was afraid he would simply disregard me.

Also, the guy flies for a corporate charter company and was not having a "good day" (out of his mouth). Before we even began the check ride, he was standing outside talking to his associate on the phone about a broken component on a turboprop. He continued to check his phone periodically during the oral portion, but only after I answered a question. He was not trying to trick me by pulling out his phone..He really seemed to have a lot of things going on that day with his other job.

At this point I don't care about getting back at him. Mistakes happen, boo hoo. I don't get why so many of you think I cannot accept my mistake. I was interested in reporting him just so whoever tests with him next doesn't have to deal with his cell phone use. But at this point the general consensus here seems like I should just let it go. Which is more than likely what I will do.
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You ****ed off a guy who was already having a bad day?

You need to go into a checkride with openness, flexibility, and a focus on safety. The door wasn't a safety issue, not was the cellphone. He's not flying the plane...you are. When I've taken my multitude of checkrides, my no. 1 mission is safety, no. 2 is passing. Don't give the examiner a reason to hate you. If he's hot, I pop a cold pack from my flight bag, or offer my extra unopened bottle of water. That's the way to leave a good impression.
 
Unregistered said:
Also, the guy flies for a corporate charter company and was not having a "good day" (out of his mouth). Before we even began the check ride, he was standing outside talking to his associate on the phone about a broken component on a turboprop. He continued to check his phone periodically during the oral portion, but only after I answered a question. He was not trying to trick me by pulling out his phone..He really seemed to have a lot of things going on that day with his other job.
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I agree with everyone who says to let it go, or at least, forget about filing a complaint with the FSDO. Yes, it sounds as if your DPE was behaving in a less than professional way, and was clearly unable to leave his day job at the exam room door. I might talk with other pilots who have used him and see if that kind of thing is a pattern with him, and if so, just confirm that you had a similar experience. Word gets around, there are lots of DPEs people tend to avoid because of issues that don't rise to the level of filing a complaint.

My instrument DPE had a reputation for being a "nervous nellie". I found out why on the flight part of my checkride, when he went bonkers over a 2 ppm reading on my digital CO monitor and almost forced me to abort the checkride. Turns out there was an understandable reason though, in that he had been through an incident of CO poisoning and had developed a phobia about it. Would I report him for unprofessional behavior? Of course not. I talked about it with other pilots at the airport, and then pretty much let it go. Maybe you should do the same thing.
 
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