Down and locked mmmm maybe not.

Boy, I bet they pooped a brick!
 
Badly adjusted squat switch.
 
You might be right, that is a 20c, manual Johnson bar?
 
It looks like the Johnson bar was not properly latched and it got unlatched during the rough ground run. On Mooneys with electric gear this would not have happened.

José
 
From my limited M20c time I remember that being a checklist item and admonishment from the CFI.

Those latches sometimes let go. Hit hard things with the gear and/or bounce up and down and you could hear the handle strain/clunk/clicking (depending on how hard and how much slop was in the handle) against the down latch, trying to pop the handle upright between the seats and collapse the gear. The gear was canted a few degrees outboard on both sides to keep side loads from pushing up on the handle, but landing with serious side load would stress the lock.

Even more often, pilots didn't latch the handle and then give a pull the opposite direction on the bar to make sure it's *really* latched. I don't think that's the case here though.

Another admonition was that extending gear at high airspeeds tended to snatch the handle out of your hand and slam it forward into the locking mechanism.

Over time this would crack/damage/break the latch. And you might not see it until the gear folded, taxiing.

Planning to slow up a lot before extending the gear made hanging into the bar easier so you could firmly but positively push it into the latching mechanism. Mooneys are slippery and you had to plan to slow down well before pattern entry.

If you held the bar by it's end and tried to extend gear at high airspeed thinking that'd give you more leverage, often all that would do is snap your fingers into the latch with the bar. Ouch. Painful if your fingers got caught. I never had that happen, but I did have to extend gear a couple of times for drag to slow up and if you didn't have a real grip on the handle it would easily get away from you. It wouldn't latch usually though. Just fly forward with enough momentum that you wondered briefly

If you were going to have your first pinch/smash of a finger or two. Then it would stop just before the locking mechanism with the gear hanging.

Don't get me wrong. I live both the Johnson bar gear in those Mooneys and on the flaps of the early model Cessnas. Very cost-effective. Accurate. Dependable.
 
Argh. Misspellings courtesy of iPhone. Love Johnson bars. Not "live" them. Etc.

Ahh, you get the idea. ;)
 
Had that happen on an Azwreck once. Do like the simple solution to getting it up though!
 
Except for the engine teardown, there doesn't seem to be much damage.

That was pretty cool seeing the people lift it.
 
Lifting it by the wings would have been fine (single spar, wing tip to wing tip), but the guys on the tail made me cringe. Bad place to push up on, but I can't really tell if they pushed hard or just balanced it.

The locking mechanism receiver should be round. Seen a few that were more oval shaped and badly worn which causes play in the handle. Only time you can check is while in the air with a mirror or during mx with it up on jacks. The block takes maybe 30-45 minutes to change and is relatively inexpensive. Should never have come to that if you ask me...

Brian
 
woodstock said:
That link was worth it just to see 20 people lift an airplane.
Click to expand...

It would have been even more impressive if he had started the engine and they threw it down the runway like one of those styrofoam airplanes from the $1 bin.
 
Rotarur said:
Badly adjusted squat switch.
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No, because the squat switch shouldn't even have to work but the dumb ass pilot had the handle in the up position. The squat switch worked perfectly, until the bouncing of the gear became so much that it released the switch. Stupid pilot error.
 
There is no gear handle to have in the wrong position in a Johnson bar landing gear setup.

The "handle" is a big bar that goes from the back seat (gear up) to the front seat (gear down) and locks into a relatively weak 30+ year old clip.

No selector switch. No squat switch. No alternate gear extension procedure. It's a lever with a gear.

Someone else has already posted how the locks wear out into a more oval than round shape and allow the bar to bang around on rough terrain which sometimes leads to the bar breaking something and popping up to the straight up and down position.

When it does this, gravity will finish smashing the gear into the wells if you're still on the ground and slapping the bar into the back seat.

The only way you could stop it is if you slid over and sat on it long before the clip broke, and you'd probably still fail, and have a bar up your butt. ;)
 
Rotarur said:
Badly adjusted squat switch.
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I doubt that anything was wrong with the squat switch. It looks to me like the pilot had placed the gear selector in the up position before or during the takeoff roll. When you do that the gear will begin retraction as soon as the squat switch closes and that's going to happen before the airplane has enough speed to fly if the runway is bumpy.
 
Inverted said:
What is the point of your link Tim?
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That it had already been established a couple of times in this thread (before you posted) that the bird had manual, Johnson bar gear, w/ no squat switch and no "handle". And that threads go in circles when someone posts a hypothesis that's already been discussed and dismissed earlier in the thread because people feel the need to discuss it and dismiss it again.

That it helps to read a thread before posting in it. That's all.:idea:

Disclaimer: I know absolutely nothing about old Mooneys and am simply relying on the general consensus here and on the red board that this plane had manual gear. (which certainly seemed to be the case when it was re-extended). But, if that's not correct then everyone should collectively dope slap me.;)
 
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Already established how? Nothing is proven, time to dope slap yourself.

I have flown 2 different M20c Mooneys and both were electric gear.
 
Inverted said:
Already established how? Nothing is proven, time to dope slap yourself.

I have flown 2 different M20c Mooneys and both were electric gear.
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Did you look at the video? Did you ever see an electric gear extend that fast?
 
According to these people, http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft performance/Mooney/31.htm all Mooneys produced before 1968 had manually operated gear.

Electrical failure in earlier models presents no major dramas. Up until 1968, all Mooneys had a bullet-proof manual gear retraction system. Hinged from the floor, the long gear handle, or Johnson Bar, locks forward into the bottom of the instrument panel for the down position. To retract, the thumb button is depressed while sliding the locking mechanism downwards and the handle is pulled to floor between the seats.
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That is in line with everything I have ever seen written or have known about personally about Mooneys. So unless it was converted somehow, I don't see how a C model Mooney would have electric gear.
 
denverpilot said:
There is no gear handle to have in the wrong position in a Johnson bar landing gear setup.

...

The only way you could stop it is if you slid over and sat on it long before the clip broke, and you'd probably still fail, and have a bar up your butt. ;)
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Ouch! Whacked in the Johnson by a runaway Johnson bar! :yikes:
 
Skylane81E said:
Mechanical link to the gear as upposed to a hydraulic one like some pipers. They are still electricly powered but the mode of power transmission is different.
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Ok. Understood. But I will bet my AA pension that that was a manual retract Mooney with no electricity involved.
 
is it just me or was the pilot not pulling back on the yoke to transfer the weight from the wheels to the wings?
 
raider said:
is it just me or was the pilot not pulling back on the yoke to transfer the weight from the wheels to the wings?
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He had some up elevator. Might not have been as much as you would like to see, but I think it was enough.
 
Inverted said:
Already established how? Nothing is proven, time to dope slap yourself.

I have flown 2 different M20c Mooneys and both were electric gear.
Click to expand...

Greg Bockelman said:
Did you look at the video? Did you ever see an electric gear extend that fast?
Click to expand...

Greg Bockelman said:
According to these people, http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft performance/Mooney/31.htm all Mooneys produced before 1968 had manually operated gear.



That is in line with everything I have ever seen written or have known about personally about Mooneys. So unless it was converted somehow, I don't see how a C model Mooney would have electric gear.
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The accident aircraft is a 1965 M20C (SN 2900) with the Johnson Bar. Greg is correct in all pre-1969 birds came with the J-Bar manual gear. However, the M20C was produced until 1978 when Mooney killed the C model in favor of the M20J so there are M20C's with electric gear (as well as E and F models in both versions). The New Zealand Pilots forum has a witness saying it's a J-Bar model and based on what I saw in the video, have no reason to think it's not a J-Bar model. Not sure why we are still arguing about that point. :dunno:

Mine's a '67 with manual gear and flaps.

Brian
 
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