Don't land at Burke!

thezoolityre

thezoolityre

Pre-takeoff checklist
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thezoolityre
Yesterday I took our flight school's Piper Seminole up to Cleveland's Burke Lakefront Airport. We wanted to leave the plane there and grab dinner, but storms started rolling in...so for the 2 minutes we were inside Landmark Aviation to check radar on our phones, they charged us 70 FREAKIN DOLLARS! :mad: When we asked them if it was so expensive because we were a multi, they said they charge the same flat rate every time...

I mean, I could understand if we were there for hours and we used their facilities and things like that, but seventy dollars to pretty much land, show up and PAY THE FEE, and then leave... ridiculous, :mad2:

for further use of that airport, just use the terminal building under the big number 1...
 
Man, what did you do to **** them off?
Your experience is a lot different from these:
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBKL/LANDMARK
Of course, they could have made those comments themselves.


thezoolityre said:
Yesterday I took our flight school's Piper Seminole up to Cleveland's Burke Lakefront Airport. We wanted to leave the plane there and grab dinner, but storms started rolling in...so for the 2 minutes we were inside Landmark Aviation to check radar on our phones, they charged us 70 FREAKIN DOLLARS! :mad: When we asked them if it was so expensive because we were a multi, they said they charge the same flat rate every time...

I mean, I could understand if we were there for hours and we used their facilities and things like that, but seventy dollars to pretty much land, show up and PAY THE FEE, and then leave... ridiculous, :mad2:

for further use of that airport, just use the terminal building under the big number 1...
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Last time I landed at Burke (and the time before that and before that...) the city charged me five bucks for the privilege. You should call the FBO manager and vent your displeasure. I hate FBOs that carry out anal rape because you used the john.
 
steingar said:
Last time I landed at Burke (and the time before that and before that...) the city charged me five bucks for the privilege. You should call the FBO manager and vent your displeasure. I hate FBOs that carry out anal rape because you used the john.
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He could also tell them that he posted his experience to PoA which has over 11,000 members and read by probably another 30,000 or more non-members.
 
I wish there was a computer geek pilot who was motivated to start a "Ramp Rape.com" site.
 
With jillions of airports to choose from, why would ANYONE land where they charge landing fees?
 
What would they do if you told them that landing fee was crazy (maybe offered them $20 instead - everything's negotiable) then immediately left?

I don't think they'd bother to try to collect using other measures, would they?
 
Jay Honeck said:
With jillions of airports to choose from, why would ANYONE land where they charge landing fees?
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We wanted dinner, remember? It was the closest one nearby and all of the other ones that don't have landing fees don't have courtesy cars to help us get around for the few hours we are there... And I have ate AT pretty much every airport within a 150nm radius of KPIT
 
Landing fee waived if you buy fuel. :)
 
Airports with no landing fees and no courtesy car.
Airports with landing fee and give you a courtesy car.
You wanted a courtesy car and no landing fee.
Solution: go to the airport with no landing fee and rent a car.
 
RichNY said:
Airports with no landing fees and no courtesy car.
Airports with landing fee and give you a courtesy car.
You wanted a courtesy car and no landing fee.
Solution: go to the airport with no landing fee and rent a car.
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Actually, Burke was close enough to the city that I would just walk...

But the point of this thread is not the fact that I had a landing fee, that I expected, its the fact that it was 70 dollars.....
 
thezoolityre said:
Actually, Burke was close enough to the city that I would just walk...

But the point of this thread is not the fact that I had a landing fee, that I expected, its the fact that it was 70 dollars.....
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I thought Chicago's Meigs Field was outrageous, at $28 -- but I paid it because I believed it was worth it.

I would not pay $70. Anywhere. Ever.
 
I just called them. $65 ramp fee for a twin and $8 landing fee to be billed by the city. That's steep and calling ahead would have been a good idea.
 
Crazy, I'm here now at BKL for the starman auction, but I AOG'ed out and had to drive the last leg in a rental car. Sounds like I dodged a bullet.

The comments for landmark had lulled me into a false sense of safety. I was poised to get the ramprape.com :D
 
I commonly will check airnav and call ahead to confirm fees to limit surprises.
This really sucks though as I might have to fly up to Cleveland next weekend and was planning on flying into Burke.
 
FORANE said:
I commonly will check airnav and call ahead to confirm fees to limit surprises.
This really sucks though as I might have to fly up to Cleveland next weekend and was planning on flying into Burke.
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If you fly in to Burke... just bring chalks and part in front of the terminal building... that way you only get charged $8 instead of $70!
 
thezoolityre said:
If you fly in to Burke... just bring chalks and part in front of the terminal building... that way you only get charged $8 instead of $70!
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Can you get ramp access from the terminal building ?

Btw. the landing fee is advertised in the airports FAA master record. Can't complain about that one. They are also listed on the airports website:

http://www.burkeairport.com/Facilities---Services/Pricing-Fees.aspx

Landmark, Signature, Atlantic tend to be the places with the high ramp fees. I have no problem with them charging what they charge as long as I have an alternative somewhere on the field where I can park and get in and out without using FBO services. It is when they turn the monopoly on the door through the fence into a $50 rip-off that I get unhappy.
 
What zoolytre said ... No need to go to Landmark if you don't need fuel.
Oh, and always do your homework.
 
Hmm...

I guess I was lucky. When I was living/working in Cleveland I hangared at Medina and would regularly fly up to lakefront. I'd walk to the R&R hall of fame, the Cod, the restaurant next to the Cod whatever it was called (before it closed). I'd even occasionally walk over to the ballpark to catch an Indians day game.

There was a fee...don't recall want it was exactly...but I was never offended by it. Seems like it was $5 or $10.

The sad part about Lakefront is the aviation high school at the east end that's closed down. :(

That's a bummer. Just one more sign that it ain't what it used to be.
 
For $70 they should have had topless female employees ready to service you.
 
timwinters said:
Hmm...

I guess I was lucky. When I was living/working in Cleveland I hangared at Medina and would regularly fly up to lakefront. I'd walk to the R&R hall of fame, the Cod, the restaurant next to the Cod whatever it was called (before it closed). I'd even occasionally walk over to the ballpark to catch an Indians day game.

There was a fee...don't recall want it was exactly...but I was never offended by it. Seems like it was $5 or $10.

The sad part about Lakefront is the aviation high school at the east end that's closed down. :(

That's a bummer. Just one more sign that it ain't what it used to be.
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They do have a women in aviation museum in the terminal, though.
 
Dude, I work within sight of the end of the runway. I had planned on landing there, assuming I'd only have to pay the landing fee, and I think a small parking fee. If there is a $65 ramp fee, forget it!
 
ChrisK said:
Dude, I work within sight of the end of the runway. I had planned on landing there, assuming I'd only have to pay the landing fee, and I think a small parking fee. If there is a $65 ramp fee, forget it!
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The $65 is if you park at Landmark. If there is a way to get ramp access at the terminal and you park on the public ramp, you only owe the landing and the airport parking fee.
 
weilke said:
The $65 is if you park at Landmark. If there is a way to get ramp access at the terminal and you park on the public ramp, you only owe the landing and the airport parking fee.
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If you don't want to do your homework (I usually don't), a smile and a friendly attitude usually works. Most things can be negotiated, others reversed.

I did a pickup at Burke a few years ago and don't remember anything out of the ordinary. But that doesn't mean anything. I'm sure I bought fuel.

If you want to pee in someone's pot or otherwise be happily serviced, good luck.
 
Jay Honeck said:
With jillions of airports to choose from, why would ANYONE land where they charge landing fees?
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I've got no problem paying a reasonable fee for the use of an airport's facilities, especially if I don't buy gas. But $70 for pulling up just long enough to use a cell phone? :no:
 
Ron Levy said:
I've got no problem paying a reasonable fee for the use of an airport's facilities, especially if I don't buy gas. But $70 for pulling up just long enough to use a cell phone? :no:
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If it's a municipal airport, the taxpayers have already paid for the airport's facilities with their taxes. Anything beyond that is double dipping.

Now, if the FBO (not the airport) is charging it, that's a different story. When THEY charge a fee that high, it's either because (a) the local government is shafting THEM for some outrageous "fee", or (b) the ramp is in such demand that they feel they can get away with it.

Either way, it sucks, and guarantees that I will fly elsewhere.
 
Since my FBO reimburses fuel purchased for the rental planes, I always buy fuel at BKL to get the fee waived. I don't know what the minimum is, but the fuel burn from home is about seven gallons. Five bucks to park at an airport within walking distance to downtown and the waterfront is fine with me.
 
Bill Watson said:
If you don't want to do your homework (I usually don't), a smile and a friendly attitude usually works. Most things can be negotiated, others reversed.

I did a pickup at Burke a few years ago and don't remember anything out of the ordinary. But that doesn't mean anything. I'm sure I bought fuel.
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I call ahead. If it is just me, I'll happily tie down myself on the 'city ramp' and get my fuel at some small airport with self-service on the way home.

If I travel with wife and kids, I'll seek out the nice 'Jet' place where they can go right from the hot plane into the air-conditioned lobby and where a bell-man helps me to get the luggage from the plane to the pre-cooled rental car. I'll gladly pay $60 for that service, either in the form of a ramp-fee or through the $1.50 margin those places put on the fuel.

What I dont like are the airports that force you to go to a FBO because they have leased out all the ramp space to private parties.

Friends of ours have a boat in the Marina just off the end of the runway. Sometime this summer we'll probably fly into Burke. I suspect my fuel purchase will be enough to waive the ramp fee.
 
RichNY said:
I just called them. $65 ramp fee for a twin and $8 landing fee to be billed by the city. That's steep and calling ahead would have been a good idea.
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Does that come with a complimentary tube of KY and breakfast in bed the next morning?
 
Sometimes it's enough to just have a clean restroom (and a little a/c). It looks like a tough biz independent of municipal funding and such so I'm usually glad to just have some attended services.

What did **** me off recently was a stop at KINT Winston Salem, NC. Stopped first at the FBO's SS pump. Empty tanks and a full bladder, I walked over to the nearest buildings and was met with a "don't even ask to use our rest room", signed by the emergency fire truck team. Okay, I understand that EVERY pilot landing wants to use restroom upon landing, but the FBO is not within walking distance and requires crossing an active runway. I barely managed to stop myself from wetting down their barbecue grill because the smoked glass windows overlooking it were too intimidating.

To add insult to injury, the bargain priced pumps were pumping a gallon per 45 seconds (measured). Do the math.

I much prefer big, busy airports for ATC, services, and convenience. KINT is a big, quiet airport in the shadow of bustling KGSO, e.g. call up ground control to taxi and you will get, after an extended pause, "whoever just called, please repeat, you were broken up".

Yeah, broken up as in broke up the card game.
 
Dean V said:
That would be nice if tax payers had already paid for it. The Cleveland airports are required to operate independant of general tax payer revenues. Just like a lot of airports.

In 2012, Cleveland sold 600 million in bonds (spelled borrowed the money) on behalf of Burke and Hopkins for improvements. Money the airport users must pay back.

With that said, Landmark's rent is not extreme at Burke.
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Which is, of course, insane. We faced this in Iowa, too, with the idiots at city hall trying to pretend that the airport should be "self supporting". Except, of course, that no other city-provided service was required to even be revenue neutral, let alone profitable.

Parking garages? Nope. Bus system? Hell, you could buy every rider a nice used car, and save money. But for some odd reason, they expected an airport that brought over $16 million into the economy annually to make a profit.

Crazy.
 
Jay Honeck said:
If it's a municipal airport, the taxpayers have already paid for the airport's facilities with their taxes. Anything beyond that is double dipping.

Now, if the FBO (not the airport) is charging it, that's a different story. When THEY charge a fee that high, it's either because (a) the local government is shafting THEM for some outrageous "fee", or (b) the ramp is in such demand that they feel they can get away with it.

Either way, it sucks, and guarantees that I will fly elsewhere.
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it is definitely the FBO charging the fee. A single engine landing fee at Burke is $5.00. Park on the public ramp and walk into the terminal. Plenty of restrooms. The terminal used to have airliner traffic and is expansive. No need to go to the FBO unless you need fuel. I went in the FBO last year to meet some friends. They waived the FBO fees and gave them an Angle flight fuel discount when they saw the his ID tag. Call the FBO manager and explain what happened.
By the way, they will also come and fuel you if you park on the public ramp.
 
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