Does this sound right?

[Gone Flyin]

Moved to a new airport. Asked the resident AI to do my C150M's annual.

Telling me now, after 2 days into this, the "first annual will take twice as long as we need to establish a baseline for overall condition and airworthiness... and we also need to research all the AD's by going page by page through all the logs books and ensuring the proper entries have been made to satisfy the requirements of each AD"

AI at my former airport meticulously listed each AD that needed to be done each year (there were around 6 or 7 of them) on his inspection sticker above his signature. I also supplied a binder with all specific FAA AD sheets for my plane.

 

[Bell206]

the "first annual will take twice as long as we need to establish a baseline for overall condition and airworthiness...

Yes, for some APIAs. It's his name on the book now. Your previous IAs responsibility/liability ended last year after he signed the book then. Now should he have told you this up front, sure.

 

[benyflyguy]

Sad but makes sense to me. Think of the thread recently here about guy who bought a Cherokee just had annual and a prebuy when he takes it to his guy after purchase it’s a rustbucket that is not airworthy and now junked.

 

[Clip4]

I agree he needs to assure the ADs are in the book, but with the supporting documents you have that should not take very long.

 

[Gone Flyin]

Sad but makes sense to me. Think of the thread recently here about guy who bought a Cherokee just had annual and a prebuy when he takes it to his guy after purchase it’s a rust bucket that is not airworthy and now junked.

My plane is not a rust bucket. It is in fine shape and has been well maintained by both me and the prior owners. Documented oil/filter changes every 25 hours. Recent new Skytek starter, new vacuum pump, new three-point seat belts... the list goes on. What is a surprise to me is that one AI cannot take the word/signature of a prior AI as to whether the AD's have been complied with just 12 months ago. To say he has to now go back to the beginning of time (1976) to check they were done then makes no sense. It's a bit late for that, is it not?

 

[luvflyin]

Moved to a new airport. Asked the resident AI to do my C150M's annual.

Telling me now, after 2 days into this, the "first annual will take twice as long as we need to establish a baseline for overall condition and airworthiness... and we also need to research all the AD's by going page by page through all the logs books and ensuring the proper entries have been made to satisfy the requirements of each AD"

AI at my former airport meticulously listed each AD that needed to be done each year (there were around 6 or 7 of them) on his inspection sticker above his signature. I also supplied a binder with all specific FAA AD sheets for my plane.

Twice as long?? And it’s about the paperwork?? Seems a little much

 

[Daleandee]

Find a different AI? It's his license after all. You & I may not like how he does business but it is his business.

On the other hand (the positive side) he does sound like the kind of AI I would want looking at my plane. If it takes a bit longer that's OK I just want to make sure it's done correctly and it is safe to fly my family and friends around in.

 

[rsleeds]

Twice as long?? And it’s about the paperwork?? Seems a little much

Should this effort double the time needed for annual? Probably not IMO, especially with the condition of the documentation you described. However, completely reasonable and appropriate for the new IA to prove for himself that the documentation and work is in place. His ticket and liability and no way he should rely on what someone says was OK. The cost of changing to a new provider and actually a very good sign of his work product and value.

 

[Grum.Man]

Yes this is entirely reasonable. The new AI is now taking responsibility for every previous ones work. Because of the convoluted wording and listing system of AD notes it can be very easy to over look one.

 

[Bell206]

My plane is not a rust bucket. It is in fine shape and has been well maintained by both me and the prior owners.

Condition of the aircraft is only half the inspection. The other half is that it conforms to the applicable data. On a new to him aircraft, some APIAs take their job more seriously than others and just based on the limited info you've posted I'd say you have one of the former. For reference, there are PoA'rs who believe in and support 20 minute annuals, hangar fairies, and practice "if it's not in the book, it didn't happen" type of maintenance. So you never know with any new to you aircraft.

What is a surprise to me is that one AI cannot take the word/signature of a prior AI as to whether the AD's have been complied with just 12 months ago.

It's a bit late for that, is it not?

Not at all. If all the new APIA had to sign for was only the past 12 months then you would have something. Unfortunately, when the new APIA signs this year he takes full responsibility that your aircraft conforms to its type design and is safe for flight back to 1976. The previous APIAs are no longer held accountable unless it was directly how they performed a maintenance task. Matter of fact, the second the ink dries on the new APIA annual signature his job is done and anything in the future falls to you as owner until the next APIA annual cycle were they will assume the responsibility back to 1976. So it's never too late. Perhaps ask your current APIA to explain this process so you can see first hand how its done?

Twice as long?? And it’s about the paperwork?? Seems a little much

Not really. Ever done an actual complete AD research?

 

[Grum.Man]

Just about every time I’ve started shopping for an airplane there have been discrepancies in the logs. Either a task wasn’t worded well enough to guarantee it was done, or obvious things were repaired/replaced with no logbook entry. I looked at one plane that had an engine upgrade that wasn’t approved, one that was completely re-painted with no log book entry. Most of the things are probably harmless but at the end of the day the new inspector owns all those misses.

 

[Gone Flyin]

Matter of fact, the second the ink dries on the new APIA annual signature his job is done and anything in the future falls to you as owner until the next APIA annual cycle were they will assume the responsibility back to 1976.

So just when does he own them?

 

[Bell206]

So just when does he own them?

Who is he? If talking the owner, he "owns" the airworthiness responsibility at all times. If talking the current APIA, he "owns" the airworthiness responsibility for the annual inspection performed on the day he signs it to include all work performed back to 1976. In general terms, think of that APIA signature as re-certifying/re-validating the aircraft AWC for the next 12 month cycle. Actually, years ago, an aircraft was issued a new AWC every annual inspection.

 

[benyflyguy]

My plane is not a rust bucket. It is in fine shape and has been well maintained by both me and the prior owners. Documented oil/filter changes every 25 hours. Recent new Skytek starter, new vacuum pump, new three-point seat belts... the list goes on. What is a surprise to me is that one AI cannot take the word/signature of a prior AI as to whether the AD's have been complied with just 12 months ago. To say he has to now go back to the beginning of time (1976) to check they were done then makes no sense. It's a bit late for that, is it not?

I get that. but so did this guy https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...s-first-and-last-annual-advice-needed.130394/

 

[MBDiagMan]

What he says is reasonable. If he is honest and competent and not just using at as an excuse to run up a bill. You should be able to ask around and get a good idea about his reputation. There will always be a naysayer or two, and an overrater or two, so it is the comments in the middle to study and consider. Being extra careful on a plane which you have never seeen and you have no background on is quite a reasonable thing to do and will pay off for everyone in the long run.

 

[mondtster]

My plane is not a rust bucket. It is in fine shape and has been well maintained by both me and the prior owners. Documented oil/filter changes every 25 hours. Recent new Skytek starter, new vacuum pump, new three-point seat belts... the list goes on. What is a surprise to me is that one AI cannot take the word/signature of a prior AI as to whether the AD's have been complied with just 12 months ago. To say he has to now go back to the beginning of time (1976) to check they were done then makes no sense. It's a bit late for that, is it not?

The new IA owns the sins of all the previous ones. Some guys take that responsibility more seriously than others. I for one would not sign off a new to me airplane without verifying that what others have said is done is actually done. Over the course of time, some previously complied with ADs May no longer be in compliance because people don’t pay attention. As an example, an Aztec I am familiar with had a wing replacement somewhere along the way and the wing that was replaced did not have an AD complied with.

 

[unsafervguy]

even if the documentation is great, I will not accept "all ad's complied with" on an aircraft I have not signed off before. I will verify EVERY AD entry to ensure that it has been signed off, and signed off properly. I also will not accept "ad complied with" as an entry without some type of supporting documentation usually required by the AD. some AD's have different requirements for compliance by S/N, P/N, date ect, I want to see and entry as to how it has been complied with. S/B's take even more time to check. I have spent 20 to 30 hours just on log books at times.

 

[unsafervguy]

The new IA owns the sins of all the previous ones. Some guys take that responsibility more seriously than others. I for one would not sign off a new to me airplane without verifying that what others have said is done is actually done. Over the course of time, some previously complied with ADs May no longer be in compliance because people don’t pay attention. As an example, an Aztec I am familiar with had a wing replacement somewhere along the way and the wing that was replaced did not have an AD complied with.

I had a similar issue with a PA-30 I owned. there is an AD for the aileron nose ribs that is repetitive unless a service kit has been installed. there was a log book entry for that service kit years ago. only problem was there was also a logbook entry from a few years earlier showing the ailerons had been replaced with serviceable units due to hail damage. guess what, no entry that the new ailerons had the service kit installed. so the AD had not been complied with for years.

 

[Joe_B1]

My first annual took a month, new A&P went through everything, found a lot of questionable stuff. I was glad he did. Let your new guy do his job, it may save you a lot of grief.