Does anyone pre-flight anymore?

For the Warrior, a full pre first trip of the day then just a walk around with fuel and oil checks. If I am doing a Young Eagles flight, and they've not been up with me before, I'll do the whole thing explaining what the parts are and what they do. They may not appreciate it, but I hope their parents, who are with us, understand.
I've been told I spend a lot of time doing the preflight but it's probably not more than an extra 10 or 15 minutes. The helicopter preflight is 20 minutes longer. This includes hauling myself up to check the rotor.
Man, I gotta lose 50 pounds!
 
A self-deluded "celebrity pilot" I know is a long time 3-2-1 preflighter. Walking toward the airplane, count three wheels, two wings and one prop.
 
A self-deluded "celebrity pilot" I know is a long time 3-2-1 preflighter. Walking toward the airplane, count three wheels, two wings and one prop.
If he's a true celebrity, he's probably got "people" to do that for him. :)
 
Speaking of pre-flights, I have the 150 for the Young Eagles and the IA himself is going to inspect both planes (I might fly the 172 as well) the night before I use them for the kids. Super awesome. I have my own insurance, his insurance, and the EAA, but it is nice to know I'll have a second set of eyeballs - the owner's - before such an important flight.
 
Speaking of pre-flights, I have the 150 for the Young Eagles and the IA himself is going to inspect both planes (I might fly the 172 as well) the night before I use them for the kids. Super awesome. I have my own insurance, his insurance, and the EAA, but it is nice to know I'll have a second set of eyeballs - the owner's - before such an important flight.

Insurance doesn't help you when the parts fall off in flight...;) Sounds like the guy runs a tight operation, that's good to see.
 
Apparently, different pilots have different pre-flight standards.

Recently, I observed one casually walk around the plane appearing to be a typical pre-flight inspection. About 10 minutes later, he goes to crank it over and stops. I observe a bunch of white mist coming out of the cowl, then it got thicker. He got out to take a look, and then observed some flames for just a few seconds. Someone got a Fire Extinguisher, but did not need it since the flames stopped. He went into the FBO and got a flashlight, opened the cowl and looked around. About 5 minutes later, he started it up and departed.
 
First flight I do a thourough preflight (outside). FOs mostly do too, but at this point I'm inside filing the days flight plans while he's outside...so I never know for sure. Regardless, I do my thourough preflight first flight every day.

After that its a walk around every leg and checking the oil and chip detector. Before I ever climb in to shut the door the last thing I check is the fuel cap, bag door and no chalk on the right main...every single leg.
 
I have noticed that I take a lot longer to get off the ground than other people. I have also caught a lot of things while doing a good pre-flight, even on birds I owned. Every airport I go to I watch other pilots, drive up, load up, fire up, and go. Not even a walk around. It blows my mind how much of this I see. The NTSB database is full of accidents that could have been prevented with a pre-flight, yet the topic is never mentioned during BFR, IPC's, etc. In fact I watch CFI's doing the same all the time. Dangerous trend IMO.

So, what say you?

I always preflight, and I always runup after an engine stop.

However, if I've had the aircraft under my constant control and supervision, I won't sump the fuel (but will check fuel quantity).
 
I have noticed that I take a lot longer to get off the ground than other people. I have also caught a lot of things while doing a good pre-flight, even on birds I owned. Every airport I go to I watch other pilots, drive up, load up, fire up, and go. Not even a walk around. It blows my mind how much of this I see. The NTSB database is full of accidents that could have been prevented with a pre-flight, yet the topic is never mentioned during BFR, IPC's, etc. In fact I watch CFI's doing the same all the time. Dangerous trend IMO.

So, what say you?


Your durn tootin' I still preflight. I know every inch of that plane. I've flown it about 140 hours or so and maintained it for over a year and gone through a prebuy and an annual. I have lots of confidence in it's condition, BUT I STILL go over the plane before I fly it as if I had never seen it before.

I went to a FAA safety seminar at Aircraft Salvage of Dallas last year. "Lucky" the guy there that is considered a guru when it comes to aircraft accidents impressed on us the need to go over a plane thoroughly before flying it. He said, "it takes me an hour and a half to preflight an airplane." Although everyone laughed, I don't think it was too much of an exageration given what he had just been showing us.

Anyone who stops preflighting their airplane and flies a long time with this habit will either be dead or lucky. Sam Walton was known for NEVER preflighting a plane beyond making sure it had fuel. People said that to him the plane was nothing more than a station wagon with wings. HE was lucky!

bTW, there is a write up on "Lucky" and ASOD in the July edition of AOPA magazine.
 
LOL I always hold it up against the white part of my plane. I smell it and I even put a drop on my finger and rub my fingers together to be sure it isn't oily.


Kim, please do not touch 100ll. As a young woman the lead exposure may be detrimental to prospective children. :nono: The lead is absorbed through the skin. Health effects can be quite sever and long term to babies. There is no minimum amount of lead exposure that is acceptable.

JMHO. :D
 
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I don't really preflight at all. I toss my roller bag in the overhead compartment, stow the laptop under the seat in front of me, and prepare to turn my kindle off.

Group hug.

Ken, it'll get better.

All that TSA feely-meely. :hairraise:
 
When I was president of the flying club had a member that was madder than hell at the meeting. The mechanic had the fuel caps off putting new O rings on them and he had come out to use the airplane and the tower told him he had fuel streaming out both tanks as he taxied out. After he ranted about no placard warning him the fuel caps weren't on the airplane I calmly said "so you did do a thorough pre flight didn't you?" Then I added " you did check the flight status and block out the time you were going to use the plane on the computer didn't you?" He hadn't done any of that of course but had just gone out and jumped in the airplane with no pre flight. Don
 
I do preflight, but will admit to skipping some things. I don't check my flap rollers every time. Daytime flights the lights don't always get checked. I know the condition of that plane when last inspected and I'm looking for things that have changed. No hangar rash, pannels still there, nothing living in the plane, tires, fuel, oil, lights, prop blades and off I go.

Usually less than 5 min but I also do inspections for a living...
 
I do preflight, but will admit to skipping some things. I don't check my flap rollers every time. Daytime flights the lights don't always get checked. I know the condition of that plane when last inspected and I'm looking for things that have changed. No hangar rash, pannels still there, nothing living in the plane, tires, fuel, oil, lights, prop blades and off I go.

Usually less than 5 min but I also do inspections for a living...

I do it pretty much the same. I know from an initial major inspection what things should look like and I look for a change. There are key points of interest and fasteners I inspect and I make that fast and easy with a dab of anti sabotage paint during the initial inspection.
 
LOL I always hold it up against the white part of my plane. I smell it and I even put a drop on my finger and rub my fingers together to be sure it isn't oily.

I pour it in a shot glass, swish it around my mouth, and spit it out.

Chuck Norris, on the other hand, fills a pint glass with 100LL, chugs it, breathes out and lights a match to make sure it will burn before every flight.
 
I do preflight, but will admit to skipping some things. I don't check my flap rollers every time. Daytime flights the lights don't always get checked. I know the condition of that plane when last inspected and I'm looking for things that have changed. No hangar rash, pannels still there, nothing living in the plane, tires, fuel, oil, lights, prop blades and off I go.

Usually less than 5 min but I also do inspections for a living...

How about some advice on what things to check not covered in the typical POH pre-flight?
 
How about some advice on what things to check not covered in the typical POH pre-flight?

It all boils down to "what SHOULD it look like?" and training your eyes to spot what's different. Also knowing your aircraft type and anything special to look for on it helps a lot.
 
Anyone seen a fuel tester that has turned opaque and you can't tell the color of the fuel any more?

How would you know the fuel was contaminated such as the miss fueling in Ca. a few years ago? 5% diesel fuel was delivered to 3 major airports. which cause a bunch of Aircraft to get new engines.

How do you know how much water is in the fuel that you just put in the tanks? (fuel stop and quick launch)
 
I can't ever remember noticing what other pilots in other airplanes do for their preflight... :dunno:
 
I'd like to point out to renters that anything missed on a pre-flight can be blamed and charged to the renter. One place I used to rent was quick to blame everything on renters to avoid paying for basic maintenance.
 
[FONT=&quot]I always go through the checklist. It would rather spend ten minutes on the ground going through the checklist then spending one second in the air with a mechanical or electrical problem. How many accidents have missing fuel caps, stolen fuel, flat tires, bad magnetos and damaged flaps. For most of us the aircraft is exposed to other people on the ramp and or other pilots. It is much better to be safe then sorry at take off or landing. [/FONT]
 
The thought of not doing a pre flight has never even crossed my mind. How reckless can one be? I rent so I don't always know who flys the plane before me. I follow the pre-flight checklist to the tee. It gives me some confidence that things are working well.

One of the things that I'm always concerned about when pre-flighting is could I actually spot something that is wrong anyway? I do wonder sometimes if I've overlooked something especially since I've only seen things in working order.
 
I belong to a club with 4 planes. I always preflight before pulling a plane out of the hangar. Over 12 years I've foung the following items:

1. Missing required paperwork. Somebody took it home to copy and it wasn't in the plane when I went to fly. Aircraft gounded until the paperwork was returned. This has happened twice.

2. Unidentified "crud" in the sampler from both tanks in the 182. Multiple samples did not help. The plane was grounded and the entire fuel system was drained and cleaned.

12 years, 3 times the preflight found something that said I wasn't flying that day. The paperwork was a legal issue only, the crud in the tanks could have resulted in unintended glider time. I'll continue to preflight before the first flight of each day. Cheap insurance.
 
I used to be asked by the flight school if I was going to sign off an inspection once my preflight was complete. I still do a thorough preflight today, even though it is my own plane. I had experienced a case where someone stole my fuel and replaced it with water. Had a preflight not been completed, I could only imagine the outcome of trying to burn water when I switched to that tank.
 
A rental aircraft, especially one that sits outside during the day from one flight to the next, is a whole different ball game than a privately owned aircraft that stays in a locked hangar and is flown by only one person.

Once I become acquainted with an aircraft that I alone fly, then I can make changes to the checklist and streamline it.

I believe it is far more useful to look at the vital few than become bogged down with the trivial many.
 
Kim, please do not touch 100ll. As a young woman the lead exposure may be detrimental to prospective children. :nono: The lead is absorbed through the skin. Health effects can be quite sever and long term to babies. There is no minimum amount of lead exposure that is acceptable.

JMHO. :D

Dude who said I want babies?
 
I can't ever remember noticing what other pilots in other airplanes do for their preflight... :dunno:

I notice only when I'm riding with someone, I watch them as I scan as well. Occasionally I'll take them back through after completion and show them what they missed and educate them some. As Skylane said, it's about knowing what it's supposed to look like. Plus, there are things to feel as well, like a Cessna hinge with cotter pins in the end, I give the pins a tug, every now and then one pops off corroded through.
 
I notice only when I'm riding with someone, I watch them as I scan as well. Occasionally I'll take them back through after completion and show them what they missed and educate them some. As Skylane said, it's about knowing what it's supposed to look like. Plus, there are things to feel as well, like a Cessna hinge with cotter pins in the end, I give the pins a tug, every now and then one pops off corroded through.
I was mostly talking about looking across the ramp and noticing someone else's preflight which I can't ever remember doing. When it's the airplane I'm riding in, if I'm there at the time they are doing the preflight I might notice. If I'm not, I don't worry about it. I expect people know their own airplane and can preflight it better than I can anyway. I don't go back and re-preflight the airplane the other crewmember has preflighted unless it is someone who is very new to the airplane and I'm teaching them.
 
Preflight? I didn't do one last week. I managed to down the airplane by looking at the inspection schedule.

It saved me the trouble of walking out to the airplane and gettin my hands dirty.
 
How many have noticed a lot of other pilots skipping it?

I don't usually pay close attention to what others are doing, but sometimes it's very noticeable.

We had a flight engineer who was infamous for doing his walk-around in the crew van while approaching the aircraft. He got snagged by a European SAFA inspection, which is like an FAA ramp inspection. The SAFA folks often sit in a vehicle at a distance and watch, before ever approaching the aircraft to inspect, and if one hasn't done a thorough preflight, carried a flashlight, worn the ubiquitous orange safety vest, or clearly inspected the aircraft, they've already got marks against you. In fact, they've already done a preliminary inspection before we ever show up, and have items that they'll ask about that they've already identified. They don't miss much.

I've seen the FAA do the same thing. I've also participated in FAA contests involving a preflight in which they've altered certain things on the aircraft. The winner finds the most discrepancies. I won a Snap-On screwdriver from the FAA that way; I identified 12 more discrepancies than they created; it was 12 more than they found.

I look for more than is in the aircraft flight manual. If I'm looking at safety wire, I'm checking to see that it's wired correctly (surprising how often it isn't). I'm looking at self-locking nuts to see that at least one thread protrudes past the nut, and that castelated nuts are properly secured. I check everything I can see, or touch or move. I check fuel by smell, sight, and feel. I check it at the sumps and dip my fingers in the filler neck in the tank. In the case of avgas, if it's slippery and dries white, it's probably right; if it's slippery and dries oily or clear or not at all, it's probably not, and if it's not slippery at all and doesn't dry so fast, it's probably water. I've found differences between what's in the sump at at the filler neck. I look in the tank for debris. I rock the wings, raise and lower the empennage, move water and shake it free from around baffles. I shake wings and check for noises and move and tug on everything I can on the airplane.

I've found tools in place, controls rigged backward, missing panels, missing safety wire, safety wire looped around propeller governors (disabling them), hydraulic leaks, fuel leaks, broken parts, spools of safety wire where they shouldn't be, and all sorts of other things, from illegal repairs to inoperative components, to missing control surfaces.

I once preflighted an airplane the day before it was needed for a search. Early the next morning we were called for the search, and on arrival at the hangar, found that the elevators were missing. Someone had moved it out of the hanger the previous night and parked a vehicle in the hangar. They backed it into the vehicle in the dark, trying to move the aircraft alone, and then they removed the elevators to have them repaired (the person who did it was a mechanic and inspector). No note, no explanation; we showed up to an airplane that I'd preflighted before putting it in the hangar, to find the control surfaces missing.

Never assume that because you preflighted it last night, it's in the same condition this morning.

If I am interrupted during a preflight, I start over. I don't try to pick up where I left off. I made that mistake during a pack job on a parachute once, and ended up in intensive care; if you have to stop your preflight or inspection to attend to other matters, for any reason, then start over. It's a small price to pay to ensure everything is covered. The same with a checklist in the cockpit. Unless it's a point in the checklist that has a hold built into the checklist, run that checklist over again. It's simple, doesn't take much time, and ensures that you've covered everything on the checklist.

You may think that if you fly a hundred hours a year, or are in your own airplane that you know so well, then that's overkill; it doesn't apply to you. It only applies after all, to professionals flying the same airplanes eight hundred hours a year, who do it for a living, and who have a lifetime of experience behind them.

I always post-flight. If your post flight inspection isn't as thorough as your preflight inspection, you're doing it wrong.

When I land and fill the tanks, I watch what goes into each tank very carefully, and match it to my calculations, the fuel flow readings, and the measurements taken during the flight. How accurate was each? I find out when we put the fuel in the airplane, and I take that into account. I do cool-down runs on the engine before shutdown, and post flight run ups, mag checks, and idle mixture checks in piston airplanes. I idle turbines for five minutes after the final power reduction, before shut down. Same for turbocharged airplanes; five minutes minimum after last operating the engine below barometric pressure.

One shouldn't neglect shutdown checklists or procedures. The tendency is to shut it down, tie down, and walk-away. If a checklist is useful for the before start or before takeoff phases, it's equally useful at the shutdown and parking phases. Use it. The post-flight walk-around and inspection should be just as thorough as the preflight.

As a normal part of the preflight in the cockpit, I move or touch or test everything I can in the cockpit. If there's a test or inspection associated with any particular item, I do that, form press-to-test lights to VOR checks, to systems checks, to radio checks. Everything gets tested and checked. Paperwork gets examined. Flight plans get checked waypoint by waypoint; I check latitude/longitude, distance and bearing between each, total distance of the trip on paper vs. what's in the box (whatever box may be in use), all the fuel calculations against what I've got, agains the latest weather and desired extra reserves, and so forth. Generally one hour minimum in the cockpit getting ready domestically, and two for anything internationally.

During fire season I start early; I began several hours before the start of duty today, which is typical. I'll typically continue several hours after being released, depending on the length of the duty day and what's planned for tomorrow, taking into account the need for rest between duty and flights.

With a student involved, I try to plan on a minimum of an hour before any flight for the student and the preflight; longer if material needs to be covered by way of briefing or training prior to the actual flight lesson. Always at least an hour after, or more. When training at work, typically two hours for the pre brief, then one to two hours after each training session for the debrief. With students, I like to move switches, hide things, and mix things up a bit to give the student "easter eggs" for which to hunt, to see how thorough their preflight may be. Hopefully they'll find the tennis shoe on top of the engine cylinders, the car keys by the fuel selector, the rubber snake out of sight around the nose gear linkage, and so forth.

Constant speed propellers should be checked for security, but also each blade should be checked for leakage around the blade seal, for play in the blade (fore and aft, and by way of rotation). The engine controls should move freely through their full range, as should other controls (tailwheel locks, flap handles, etc). Check everything. In a small airplane, I run my hands over the skin, touching everything, checking for things I might not see, but can feel.

In tankers, washing the airplane has always been part of my regular inspection: a great deal of attention gets paid to the airplane when it's being washed (and waxed); a single smoking rivet, a crack, or other things that develop, are more easily seen when one is in close contact with the airplane for extended periods every day. Some years ago, two airplanes that I used to fly lost their wings in flight, killing all the crew members. In the case of the second airplane, I'd done my type rating in that specific serial number. I knew it very well. Every time I flew that airplane, it got thoroughly washed; a typical wash job took about 12 hours to complete, and if I wasn't flying, I always had a panel off, looking for oil leaks or any number of other things that needed attention. I spent a lot of time going over that airplane.

The pilot of the airplane when the wing came off was fairly new. He made the statement when he upgraded to captain that he wouldn't ever wash an airplane again. His copilot wouldn't wash an airplane at all. It's my opinion that had they been as thorough about the airplane, they'd have seen the problem that killed them, and they'd probably be alive today. I can't prove that, and it really doesn't matter today; they're all dead. Had they been more proactive and detailed in their inspections, instead of sitting in the air conditioned ready rooms waiting for fires, chatting and laughing with friends, I think they'd still be alive.

Airplanes talk to you. The only time you might hear them speak might be during that preflight inspection when the small crack, stain, droplet of oil or hydraulic fluid, or other hint is found. It might be your only warning of what's to come, be it a gear failure, engine failure, or other issue. The place to look for those things is on the ground when you have the luxury of time and the safety of zero altitude to do your preflight. Don't neglect it. It might be your last.

Always treat the preflight like your life depends upon it, because it does. Always treat it like it's your last time, because if you're not through enough, it just might be.
 
LOL another pilot that touches fuel - just like me.

I flew on Saturday and this may sound way too detailed but I found a difference in the hinges / wires from one wing to another.

I told the IA and he knew EXACTLY what I was talking about. Turns out, as each one needs work / replacement, they bring in the "new" kind which is thicker and sort of put the pin through the hinges and then back in a u-shape under the nut.

He was surprised I noticed such a tiny thing on my preflight. I look at EVERYTHING that I can.

Kimberly
 
LOL another pilot that touches fuel - just like me.

I flew on Saturday and this may sound way too detailed but I found a difference in the hinges / wires from one wing to another.

I told the IA and he knew EXACTLY what I was talking about. Turns out, as each one needs work / replacement, they bring in the "new" kind which is thicker and sort of put the pin through the hinges and then back in a u-shape under the nut.

He was surprised I noticed such a tiny thing on my preflight. I look at EVERYTHING that I can.

Kimberly

NICE!
 
---wall of text snipped for brevity---

Always treat the preflight like your life depends upon it, because it does. Always treat it like it's your last time, because if you're not through enough, it just might be.
You, sir, are my hero.
 
As a renter, I typically take 15 - 20 minutes for the first pre-flight of the session. After that, I'll do a walk-around, moving control surfaces, checking oil, etc. If it's rained, I'll re-sump the fuel. (If it's raining at the time, I may sump and find somewhere other than the tanks to dispose of the sump.) I always hold the tube against the white paint, not the sky, and lift my Sheyden's so I don't have any color changes.

At the last FAA Safety Standdown, they had a segment on the "Advanced Pre-Flight". Here are some relevant links (all from http://www.faasafety.gov/standdown/):
Advanced Preflight:
Take Your Preflight Inspection to the Next Level How well do you know your aircraft, and who exactly is inspecting and maintaining it? Enhancing your relationship with your aircraft’s history and your mechanic are both critical components of an advanced preflight. Recent NTSB accident data shows poor preflight inspections caused or contributed to 156 GA accidents and 41 fatalities. Click for Article
Going Beyond Preflight
For many pilots, the preflight inspection cliché of “kick the tires and light the fires” is difficult to shake. Then, there is the strong tendency to fall victim to complacency, especially when dealing with an aircraft you fly all the time. A good preflight can be the difference between a safe flight and quite possibly your last flight. A checklist is an excellent resource for ensuring you follow a reliable workflow and cover all the required inspection items. But, there is a lot more to a preflight than checking items off a list. “Going Beyond Preflight” (magazine page 12, PDF page 14)
and
The owner/pilot of a Cessna 185 had previously flown the aircraft for several hours without any control anomalies. He had taken his aircraft to an aviation maintenance technician to have the strobe light power supply replaced. Find out what happens to these pilots when they encounter elevator trim problems. http://www.faa.gov/tv/?mediaId=442
A private pilot and two friends traveled from out of state to take delivery of a Cessna 210 the pilot had purchased. The intent was to fly the aircraft home the following day, before dark. Prior to the accident flight, the aircraft had gone through annual as well as pre-purchase inspections. The aircraft most likely underwent at least one preflight inspection as well. In spite of all these inspections, a readily seen item was overlooked that would initiate the accident sequence. Find out what happened. http://www.faa.gov/tv/?mediaId=443
 
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