Does anyone have a degree in Aviation Management?

Just out of curiosity David, why did your students quit?
One said he wanted to go back to his former CFI who is available again at an airport closer to his home, which I have no issue with. Another ran out of money, can't do anything about that. One more just seems to have lost interest but keeps in touch with me and is supposedly working on his written again. #4 I suggested he go to another CFI due to some scheduling conflicts as well as club maintenance issues keeping us from flying and the other 4 did the usual disappearance and won't respond to attempts to communicate. I thought one more quit on me after not flying for 4 weeks but he has responded to me finally and is trying to schedule a lesson in the next week or so.

Its been a bad year and Dec. 20th was when the first one quit, the rest snowballed quickly and I was out of money in March. I had been able to make a living off of it from August on. Never will I trey to teach full-time again.

David
 
One said he wanted to go back to his former CFI who is available again at an airport closer to his home, which I have no issue with. Another ran out of money, can't do anything about that. One more just seems to have lost interest but keeps in touch with me and is supposedly working on his written again. #4 I suggested he go to another CFI due to some scheduling conflicts as well as club maintenance issues keeping us from flying and the other 4 did the usual disappearance and won't respond to attempts to communicate. I thought one more quit on me after not flying for 4 weeks but he has responded to me finally and is trying to schedule a lesson in the next week or so.

Its been a bad year and Dec. 20th was when the first one quit, the rest snowballed quickly and I was out of money in March. I had been able to make a living off of it from August on. Never will I trey to teach full-time again. I can't take the risk and it will take me a year just to pay off the new debt I had to accumulate to survive.

David
 
Sure there's lots of crossover. An aero is essentially a mechanical engineer, just focused. At the end of the day, the person with the most relevant experience will get hired. But, barring a sufficient amount qualifying experience, the more relevant degree will prevail.
believe it or not.....many folks don't know that.:eek:


especially if you wander too far away from the aerospace community....:hairraise::frown2::hairraise:
 
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Sure there's lots of crossover. An aero is essentially a mechanical engineer, just focused.


AGREED! There's enough overlap between the two that it's not too much of a stretch to get a double major. Or do the BS in ME, then pick up an MS in aero. Either makes a nice, highly marketable package.

I prefer pushing electrons, though, so I'm an electrical engineer. (Just remember: you can't spell gEEk without EE!) Besides the BEE I also have degrees in math/CS and electro-optics, and picked up several business courses through my employer. I've been able to have lots of variety in job assignments as a result.

The future is too unpredictable to limit yourself. Think options, lots of options, and try to get a broad background. You need to be able to swim in whichever ocean you find yourself in.
 
But, barring a sufficient amount qualifying experience, the more relevant degree will prevail.
In my experience with inexperience, it depends on the coursework and performance on same, not the title of the degree. Of course (NPI) I consider that qualifying experience, but not all do.

Nauga
guided and controlled
 
...many people with that coveted MBA in front of their name have a very closed mind when it comes to degree titles.
They have apparently not been involved in my long and convoluted career path :D All of my degrees include AE but my job titles have not.

Nauga,
everywhere at once
 
No idea about the school, but you'd be waaaay better served going into a 2yr or 4yr RN nursing program, far better ROI and it goes very well with aviation.
Of course results may vary, but, with my 2 year A&P program I have made about 3x what my sister has made annually with her 4 year nursing degree.
 
I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Aviation Administration which basically an aviation management degree with a focus on airport management from SUNY Farmingdale. I got my first airport operations job at a GA airport in my home state about 6 months after graduation, worked there for at least a year and now am working in airport operations at a major international airport in another state now. For the entry level airport ops job at that international airport they require an aviation degree at the minimum, but no experience, but still my little experience at a GA airport probably helped me get the job. I am making some decent cash now, but not a lot as other occupations. My aviation degree did help me get the job although I am not sure what to do if airport operations does not work out for me later down the road.
 
Or, in my experience trying to get an airport operations job of some kind, 3-5 years experience is required in addition to the degree with no way to get said experience. That is why I am working in a pharmacy warehouse packing prescriptions right now and instructing as a CFI very little. I have had so many students quit on me this year, I am about to give it up. It makes me angry and I and I feel ashamed of what I have to do to survive. I had to get this crappy job because CFI'ing almost put me in a bankruptcy hole. Now I am just in a financial hole. Life sucks and tomorrow I turn 45.

David

David try getting some internship or job shadowing experience at an airport in airport operations. Before, I even started working in airport operations, I knew a couple of airport managers at Morristown Airport. They and I worked out a job shadowing program for me where I shadowed an airport operations coordinator for about a month and got some work experience there. This helped me to become familiar with the job at hand in addition to my college aviation courses before I started my first real airport operations job.
 
There are plenty of people that do fine with an aviation management or aeronautical science degree. Dad went to ERAU and has the aeronautical science and works for major airline and plenty of other pilots are doing the same. I chose to get a degree in economics in case the flying thing doesn't work out for me.
 
Of course results may vary, but, with my 2 year A&P program I have made about 3x what my sister has made annually with her 4 year nursing degree.

Wow!

That's quite uncommon.
 
Of course results may vary, but, with my 2 year A&P program I have made about 3x what my sister has made annually with her 4 year nursing degree.
so....maybe she's not doin it right? :D.....just say'n. :lol:
 
I don't know about it being uncommon, my company has something like 2300 A&P's and most of them make more than I do, due to overtime.
 
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so....maybe she's not doin it right? :D.....just say'n. :lol:
Maybe not.... she worked in a hospital taking care of terminally I'll for many years, which probably paid the best, but was very taxing, emotionally, then in family practice with a small group of Physicians, and now the school nurse at her local high school... there may be things more important to her than pay...
 
As do I from the "Community College of the Air Force" <giggle> (yes its actually accredited) and a Bachelor's in Human Resource Management from Park University. Both degrees and $5 will get you a cup of coffee from a foo foo facility.

Hey I got my CCAF hanging on the wall next to my CIS from Park..Okay the CCAF is tucked away in the closet somewhere.
 
I had about 10 hours left for an Associates when I got my first A&P job offer and just never saw a need to go back and finish. I work with individuals with varying degrees of education... some high school vocational school grads, some Bachelor's degree grads.... it all pays the same.
 
Maybe not.... she worked in a hospital taking care of terminally I'll for many years, which probably paid the best, but was very taxing, emotionally, then in family practice with a small group of Physicians, and now the school nurse at her local high school... there may be things more important to her than pay...


Most know start off at 60k, year two or three break 6 figures if they know how to work the hourly/stipend pay and play the game.
 
With a Software Engineering degree from a good school you can walk into a $100k job these days out of college, and set yourself up on a $200k path.

However, oddly, everybody I know who breaks $300k+ have two things in common:

a) Nobody has a degree. Or in the case of me I have a crappy 3 year degree from a distance learning facility that costed me a grand total of $1500 to get - the only reason for this was to get a visa to work in the U.S. - I didn't learn a single thing during the program. I also worked with quite a few Harvard / MIT / Stanford graduates over the years. Though they generally start off very well when they're still junior, I don't know any of them at the top of the pyramid.

b) Everybody started when they were 6 years old. It seems if you only start by the time you get to college, it's too late.
 
I make as much as my brother did in the Air Force, as full Colonel, with two Bachelor's and a Master's from MIT and another Master's from the Industrial College of the Armed Forces. It's not always what you do, it may be who you do it for. My brother-in-law is a high school vo-tec grad making almost $400k a year as co-owner of a Learjet/Challenger repair station.
 
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No idea about the school, but you'd be waaaay better served going into a 2yr or 4yr RN nursing program, far better ROI and it goes very well with aviation.

Aviation degree is right up there with a BS in basket weaving

I wish I would have done that, on my off time pick up some per diem work, travel the world as an ATP/RN, the world is your oyster.

Nursing financed 200 hrs of flight time in my first year.. not a bad way to do it...
 
However, oddly, everybody I know who breaks $300k+ have two things in common:

Three things, the third being they get reamed with taxes and lose most of their deductions (loopholes), high salary is one of the tougher ways to build wealth, gotta pay your "fair" share you know.
 
Three things, the third being they get reamed with taxes and lose most of their deductions (loopholes), high salary is one of the tougher ways to build wealth, gotta pay your "fair" share you know.
Yeah, my brother-in-law owed $90k to the tax man this year...
 
Ah the good ol back up value argument. Yeah, I was part of that lie once.

The value of backup degrees/vocations you have no tolerance for is overstated. And people do overstate the hell out of their purported tolerance for jobs they say they'd do as a "backup". If it was tolerable, you'd be doing it as a primary in the first place. I'm guilty as charged. That's why most who say "yeah i got this degree in X in case this flying thing don't work out" are generally being intellectually dishonest. I know I was.

The fact remains I could have got a degree in transgender basket weaving studies, and still qualified for my military flying living wage position. I thought ruining my childless and careless years in college by pursuing a degree concentration I found (in hindsight) only interesting and engaging at the conceptual level but insufferable at the math and workplace level, was a smart play to gain favor to a competitive Guard/Reserve pilot slot. I gambled wrong. Turns out an affinity for fraternity life and embracing how to play crud would have served me better than 7 years of hating college life come interview time. Water under the bridge now.

I've never used my two degrees in AE nor will ever thrive in that environment. In all reality, I'd probably work at a simulator or do expat work in Central America and the Caribbean to make a living before working domestically as an engineer for 40-50K, which is about what my degrees without practical direct engineering experience would be worth, tops.

To be clear, I could "linked-in" BS buzzword my way into a meh consulting position based on my flight experience and the technical degree canard, but that's corporate job "spin" to grab a check. That's survivor/practical behavior, nothing wrong with that, but hardly the reason one goes to college and picks a major for in the first place. Backup degree mentalities may feed you for a while, but in my eyes it only creates a sea of disheartened laborers, which I find a suitable description for the majority of my compatriots. I don't find that position particularly enviable, so I question the wisdom of proferring the "backup degree" mantra.

Most of my peers have non-technical and technical degrees alike that would leave them with dramatic paycuts if they were to quit/RIF/lose the medical ability to stay in their officer jobs. Their degrees are ballwash and they know it. Same goes for airline pilots. But the point is they don't need a specific degree to have their job, which does lends credence to the scheme of everybody just going to college to check the box. There's no backup value to that however ime.

So pilots are and have always been kind of hosed, because the majority don't make good coin. So you can be a survivalist and grind your teeth for a lifetime of insipid work you only do for a living wage paycheck you rather not spend your days doing, or you can accept the opportunity cost of income loss as a function of performing the kind of work that doesn't make you suicidal after six months. I hate the mutually exclusive nature to the happiness-money curve, but as far as pilot work goes, the relationship does tends to lean mutually exclusive. I'd love to have the affinity to tolerate high paying computer coding work, and be an "essential worker" in the 21st century economy. Alas, I don't, but I'm not gonna commit seppuku over it. I rather be underpaid than come home and kick my dog every day because I privately hate my vocational life.

Life's too short to be a drone.
 
I got my AAS Air Traffic Control from CCAF I think in '77 or '78. So you were in maint before ATC?

Jet engine mechanic for 10 years. (T-38, T-37, F-4, A-10, F-16/15) Test cell run qualified on installed engine F-16. Then they came to us and said, "we have too many jet engine mechanics, if we don't get enough volunteers we're going to start voluntelling. So I said, I'll cross train into X-Ray technician (always wanted to get into the medical field and ultra-sound) so the Air Force said "no openings" and I chose ATC. Been doing it since 1992 and still doing it after retiring from active duty in 2006.
 
Three things, the third being they get reamed with taxes and lose most of their deductions (loopholes), high salary is one of the tougher ways to build wealth, gotta pay your "fair" share you know.

Yes, the typical: I'd rather be earning $60k and pay $10k in taxes than earning $350k and having to pay $100k in taxes. Even though your take-home is still 5 times as much.

Thanks for being a martyr I guess?
 
Cmon, They are hurting for sim instructors here on the T-6 side and you'd make more than the figures you quote as an entry AE.

Indeed. We are in agreement. To be clear, they're hurting because few people (especially prior mil not native to the town ) want to be a career civil servant in Columbus Mississippi. I'm fully aware of the job and salary, as we are a your mirror operation here in the mexican border and we have the same hiring woes dynamic. Its a cyclical job though, as it provides furlough insurance for tons of reservists when the airlines stop hiring or furlough. Also, that job is not entry level, in that it effectively requires a prior military UPT instructor experience as a competitive prerequisite, whereas an entry level AE only needs a degree.

I was just making the point I would do a sim job before an engineering job even if the latter paid better , because I could mentally survive the former for longer than I could ever stomach the drudgery of the latter. Both are a significant paycut for me however.

My second point was that having an engineering background therefore does not provide me with any backup value , as I disingenuously asserted to myself and others for an entire decade. But they don't call me hindsight 2020 for no reason :D
 
Yes, the typical: I'd rather be earning $60k and pay $10k in taxes than earning $350k and having to pay $100k in taxes. Even though your take-home is still 5 times as much.

Thanks for being a martyr I guess?
Lol I never said that, pull those panties out of your crack.
 
I could mentally survive the former for longer than I could ever stomach the drudgery of the latter.
I keep hearing about the tedium and drudgery of engineering jobs. I must've stumbled into the wrong line at the engineers' employment agency because my career has been anything but drudgery. Nothing fell in my lap, I had to chase what I wanted, but I've gotten to do, see, and fly some pretty cool stuff.

Edit: I've also done enough second and third shift sim sessions to know I wouldn't want to make a career of it. ;)

Nauga,
at 30 years and counting
 
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Ah the good ol back up value argument. Yeah, I was part of that lie once.

The value of backup degrees/vocations you have no tolerance for is overstated. And people do overstate the hell out of their purported tolerance for jobs they say they'd do as a "backup". If it was tolerable, you'd be doing it as a primary in the first place. I'm guilty as charged. That's why most who say "yeah i got this degree in X in case this flying thing don't work out" are generally being intellectually dishonest. I know I was.

The fact remains I could have got a degree in transgender basket weaving studies, and still qualified for my military flying living wage position. I thought ruining my childless and careless years in college by pursuing a degree concentration I found (in hindsight) only interesting and engaging at the conceptual level but insufferable at the math and workplace level, was a smart play to gain favor to a competitive Guard/Reserve pilot slot. I gambled wrong. Turns out an affinity for fraternity life and embracing how to play crud would have served me better than 7 years of hating college life come interview time. Water under the bridge now.

I've never used my two degrees in AE nor will ever thrive in that environment. In all reality, I'd probably work at a simulator or do expat work in Central America and the Caribbean to make a living before working domestically as an engineer for 40-50K, which is about what my degrees without practical direct engineering experience would be worth, tops.

To be clear, I could "linked-in" BS buzzword my way into a meh consulting position based on my flight experience and the technical degree canard, but that's corporate job "spin" to grab a check. That's survivor/practical behavior, nothing wrong with that, but hardly the reason one goes to college and picks a major for in the first place. Backup degree mentalities may feed you for a while, but in my eyes it only creates a sea of disheartened laborers, which I find a suitable description for the majority of my compatriots. I don't find that position particularly enviable, so I question the wisdom of proferring the "backup degree" mantra.

Most of my peers have non-technical and technical degrees alike that would leave them with dramatic paycuts if they were to quit/RIF/lose the medical ability to stay in their officer jobs. Their degrees are ballwash and they know it. Same goes for airline pilots. But the point is they don't need a specific degree to have their job, which does lends credence to the scheme of everybody just going to college to check the box. There's no backup value to that however ime.

So pilots are and have always been kind of hosed, because the majority don't make good coin. So you can be a survivalist and grind your teeth for a lifetime of insipid work you only do for a living wage paycheck you rather not spend your days doing, or you can accept the opportunity cost of income loss as a function of performing the kind of work that doesn't make you suicidal after six months. I hate the mutually exclusive nature to the happiness-money curve, but as far as pilot work goes, the relationship does tends to lean mutually exclusive. I'd love to have the affinity to tolerate high paying computer coding work, and be an "essential worker" in the 21st century economy. Alas, I don't, but I'm not gonna commit seppuku over it. I rather be underpaid than come home and kick my dog every day because I privately hate my vocational life.

Life's too short to be a drone.

Yup it is, and to read your long post too. ;):D
 
Jet engine mechanic for 10 years. (T-38, T-37, F-4, A-10, F-16/15) Test cell run qualified on installed engine F-16. Then they came to us and said, "we have too many jet engine mechanics, if we don't get enough volunteers we're going to start voluntelling. So I said, I'll cross train into X-Ray technician (always wanted to get into the medical field and ultra-sound) so the Air Force said "no openings" and I chose ATC. Been doing it since 1992 and still doing it after retiring from active duty in 2006.

Be glad you didn't do xray. Wife did it and was always bitching, especially about Radiologists who treated the techs crappy. Where were your bases at and years, PM me on it if you like. Wondering if we were on a base at the same time.
 
After basic (Lackland) and tech school which was at Chanute AFB in 1982 I went to Columbus AFB, MS. (I wanted to see the world so they sent me 4 hours from home) then after 18 months I went to Kadena Air Base Okinawa. Was there from 84 - 89. Then to Luke AFB from 89 to 92 when I cross trained to ATC. They couldn't give me Luke (where I owned a house) so they sent me to Davis Monthan AFB, AZ. Then in 94 I went to RAF Fairford in England for a year and then back to Davis Monthan. (I had since divorced and married my wife who was in the Tucson Air National Guard) Then to Osan AB Korea January 2001 to January 2002, then back to Davis Monthan until I retired in August of 2006. Deployments - Jeddah Saudi Arabia in 91, Prince Sultan AB Saudi Arabia in 99, Kirkuk AB Iraq in 2005.
 
Just missed you by a year or so at Columbus, left there for Eglin in 8/81. Osan 73-74. Had a few deployments when I was with the 2nd MOB, Egypt etc.
 
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