Do you vet a pilot before you let him take you for a flight?

If he has a tattoo which says "Death is the only Certainty" and looks like he is gearing up for the final act, then I would probably pass. But otherwise, I know what all those gadgets and doodads are in front of me including the yoke be it bowtie or rams horn and if the flight ever became in doubt I have no doubt there would be a change in PIC.
I've seen a few replies like this... It makes sense if the guy is trying to fly into a building, but makes zero sense of you just don't think his landing is going to come out safe. What would a PP/non CFI do?? Grab the yoke in the flare?? If you wad it up it is basically piracy.
 
It's internet bravado.

If someone tried to take control of my plane they'd get a bullet in the head.

Oh...

...and that's internet bravado also! :)
 
If you're a pilot I think vetting before flying with another pilot happens naturally. There was an occasion in my past where a fellow offered a ride. I had observed him flying prior and had a few conversations with him. I refused the ride. He eventually died in a plane crash that was pilot error. He was a highly experienced professional pilot.

I don't think credentials make the pilot. It's more about attitudes.
 
The two pilots I have flown with casually who have done the most questionable things, in retrospect, were my CFI for my commercial, and my former employer who was an airline pilot. Back in the day I was young and invincible so I didn't give it too much thought. But they were stupid things.
 
I've seen a few replies like this... It makes sense if the guy is trying to fly into a building, but makes zero sense of you just don't think his landing is going to come out safe. What would a PP/non CFI do?? Grab the yoke in the flare?? If you wad it up it is basically piracy.

Sometimes folks just need a reminder that a go-around is an option. :)

You can be as nice or as mean about it as you like, but emulating the wise old CFIs you've had in the right seat usually works fine.

"You think this is going to work out, or you want to go try this again?" Assuming enough altitude of course.

I watched a long out of currency CFI save my butt and his one day sitting in the right seat of a chartered 182 on floats. The Otter had gone down for maintenance so the charter company sent "Old Pilot" in one airplane and "Newbie" in the second to load out all of us and out gear.

Old Pilot loaded up his passengers and stuff and blasted off. Newbie took longer and was fussing over things but smiling the whole time. He decided for W&B he wanted me in back, and old military IP up front. We were really tail heavy, and the backs of the floats were not exactly anywhere near level with the fronts. (I was playing passenger that day and freshly minted pilot. I didn't pay much attention. IP WAS paying attention.)

Newbie got us all stuffed in and taxied out to the middle of the lake and downwind a ways to have plenty of takeoff room. He guns it and now even I start to notice the nose wants to be up not down and he's pushing forward a LOT to get the floats on the step. Not trimmed right at all and he's muscling it instead of trimming. IP noticed too but does nothing yet. Just observing.

Airspeed finally comes up after a very long takeoff run on the lake to where newbie wants it, and he pulls. And I mean really that he doesn't just let off some of his forward pressure, he lets the yoke start backward at an alarming rate and the nose digs skyward.

Sometime between the start of the takeoff run and now, the IP has his arm locked to his leg and his hand palm flat to the yoke, ready to stop it's rearward travel at a spot where the airplane won't stall, and we all go for a swim or end up in the trees.

Newbie may or may not have ever noticed the yoke stopped moving back too soon. Old out of currency and not flying anymore IPs hand stopped it.

He pushes forward again in surprise that the nose came up that fast, and manages to finally reach for the trim and gets the nose to stay down enough to settle into a shallow climb out, instead of a classic departure stall.

Clears the trees and we head for the main lake where they operate from. We talk about various things including the kid's brand new portable GPS on the dash. Nobody I knew even owned one yet.

He beamed and pointed out that it was showing our location and waypoints of all the lakes and cabins they flew to, as user waypoints they had added. He says, "I was a part timer for summer season only last year and they wouldn't let me use it. They make us all learn all the terrain and lakes by sight and pilotage before we're allowed to turn them on. This year I'm allowed to use it but I know these lakes like the back of my hand!"

Not a word said by IP/CFI guy about the yoke thing until later -- long after we were out of the airplane at the lodge waiting for the van to our commercial flight out of Dodge...

"Thanks for catching the yoke earlier."
"Yup. Saw that one coming. Kid will get used to an aft CG and lots of weight on floats by the end of the season."
"If he survives."
"I think he knows what I did."
"I couldn't tell from the back seat. Anyway, first beer at the airport is on me, or at the four hour layover in X."
"I'll take it!"

Subtle, helped him out without him losing face, and we all didn't get to see how fast a 182 sinks when it flips in a lake, that day. Yay. Or whether waterlogged Iridium phones work if we survived it. Or if we remembered our CPR skills.

I'm sure CFIs have plenty of stories of wresting controls away from terrified students but they also learn when the pilot over there in the other seat just needs a little "backstop". I learned a bunch that day, too. No reason to panic the kid, just stay a little further ahead of the airplane than he was and stop the chain of events.
 
I'm going to start reporting Nate's posts for being too long!

:rolleyes:

o_O

:yeahthat:
 
I'm going to start reporting Nate's posts for being too long!

:rolleyes:

o_O

:yeahthat:

To quote Johnny Ringo in Tombstone, "I already did it." 1920x1080 monitor and his posts on average took up 2-1/2 screens worth of scrolling. Why answer in 10 words when you can answer in 10,000?
 
Perhaps the EAA can get right on this problem, too... :rolleyes:
 
I guess I don't see the problem. I enjoyed the story.

I don't see it anymore either. ;)

When I ask someone if they want cake, I don't need a yes or no, AND a 20 minute soliloquy about the history of cake, how a neighbor once jumped out of one, and 13 anecdotes about cake and the social connotations of what cake really means, all I wanted was a yes or no.

A story once in a while is fine, but not not every time. If I'm in person I can say, "hey, all I wanted to know is if you wanted cake" but one here there's a giant wall of text, there's no way to avoid it. So just like hanging out on the other side of the room at a party, that's what I'm doing here.
 
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I enjoy the stories! If I'm not in the mood for a long read, I scroll on by.
 
Sometimes folks just need a reminder that a go-around is an option. :)

You can be as nice or as mean about it as you like, but emulating the wise old CFIs you've had in the right seat usually works fine.

"You think this is going to work out, or you want to go try this again?" Assuming enough altitude of course.

I watched a long out of currency CFI save my butt and his one day sitting in the right seat of a chartered 182 on floats. The Otter had gone down for maintenance so the charter company sent "Old Pilot" in one airplane and "Newbie" in the second to load out all of us and out gear.

Old Pilot loaded up his passengers and stuff and blasted off. Newbie took longer and was fussing over things but smiling the whole time. He decided for W&B he wanted me in back, and old military IP up front. We were really tail heavy, and the backs of the floats were not exactly anywhere near level with the fronts. (I was playing passenger that day and freshly minted pilot. I didn't pay much attention. IP WAS paying attention.)

Newbie got us all stuffed in and taxied out to the middle of the lake and downwind a ways to have plenty of takeoff room. He guns it and now even I start to notice the nose wants to be up not down and he's pushing forward a LOT to get the floats on the step. Not trimmed right at all and he's muscling it instead of trimming. IP noticed too but does nothing yet. Just observing.

Airspeed finally comes up after a very long takeoff run on the lake to where newbie wants it, and he pulls. And I mean really that he doesn't just let off some of his forward pressure, he lets the yoke start backward at an alarming rate and the nose digs skyward.

Sometime between the start of the takeoff run and now, the IP has his arm locked to his leg and his hand palm flat to the yoke, ready to stop it's rearward travel at a spot where the airplane won't stall, and we all go for a swim or end up in the trees.

Newbie may or may not have ever noticed the yoke stopped moving back too soon. Old out of currency and not flying anymore IPs hand stopped it.

He pushes forward again in surprise that the nose came up that fast, and manages to finally reach for the trim and gets the nose to stay down enough to settle into a shallow climb out, instead of a classic departure stall.

Clears the trees and we head for the main lake where they operate from. We talk about various things including the kid's brand new portable GPS on the dash. Nobody I knew even owned one yet.

He beamed and pointed out that it was showing our location and waypoints of all the lakes and cabins they flew to, as user waypoints they had added. He says, "I was a part timer for summer season only last year and they wouldn't let me use it. They make us all learn all the terrain and lakes by sight and pilotage before we're allowed to turn them on. This year I'm allowed to use it but I know these lakes like the back of my hand!"

Not a word said by IP/CFI guy about the yoke thing until later -- long after we were out of the airplane at the lodge waiting for the van to our commercial flight out of Dodge...

"Thanks for catching the yoke earlier."
"Yup. Saw that one coming. Kid will get used to an aft CG and lots of weight on floats by the end of the season."
"If he survives."
"I think he knows what I did."
"I couldn't tell from the back seat. Anyway, first beer at the airport is on me, or at the four hour layover in X."
"I'll take it!"

Subtle, helped him out without him losing face, and we all didn't get to see how fast a 182 sinks when it flips in a lake, that day. Yay. Or whether waterlogged Iridium phones work if we survived it. Or if we remembered our CPR skills.

I'm sure CFIs have plenty of stories of wresting controls away from terrified students but they also learn when the pilot over there in the other seat just needs a little "backstop". I learned a bunch that day, too. No reason to panic the kid, just stay a little further ahead of the airplane than he was and stop the chain of events.


4 people and gear on a 182 on floats, not exactly a greenhorn float pilot plane or situation. Flying camp checks or taking one guy out, sure, but 4 plus gear plus greenhorn in a 182 on floats, that's asking for trouble!
 
4 people and gear on a 182 on floats, not exactly a greenhorn float pilot plane or situation. Flying camp checks or taking one guy out, sure, but 4 plus gear plus greenhorn in a 182 on floats, that's asking for trouble!

3 people. But still was a tiny bit above his ability apparently.
 
I've seen a few replies like this... It makes sense if the guy is trying to fly into a building, but makes zero sense of you just don't think his landing is going to come out safe. What would a PP/non CFI do?? Grab the yoke in the flare?? If you wad it up it is basically piracy.
Actually one time I did have to grab the yoke on landing gone very sour and the young pilot was getting overwhelmed. I had already reminded him that tower changed our runway and we were a "little out of position" for the new assignment. And the airplane I saved was mine, but I am just a PP ASELI/non CFI, so YMMV.
 
Actually one time I did have to grab the yoke on landing gone very sour and the young pilot was getting overwhelmed. I had already reminded him that tower changed our runway and we were a "little out of position" for the new assignment. And the airplane I saved was mine, but I am just a PP ASELI/non CFI, so YMMV.
You grabbed the yoke?? Not informed him or asked him if he would like some help, but you *grabbed* the yoke??
 
You grabbed the yoke?? Not informed him or asked him if he would like some help, but you *grabbed* the yoke??

I was doing a flight with a buyer interested in my plane. I let him take the plane pretty far in on the landing, but we were low and I could see the trees getting closer, we were also 4 red on the PAPI. I said "My plane" and took over.

First time I've had to do that, but he was fine with it. It was my plane as well (just like CRAFT's situation).

The way I figure it, it's my investment, my insurance and my life on the line. I get to overrule anyone flying it at anytime for any reason or no reason.

I fail to see why you are surprised Kritchlow. If this was a situation where it was a CFI in a rental, then yeah, maybe some suggestions or "help" might be in order, but I'll be damned if I'll let anyone "try" to salvage a crappy approach in an aircraft I own.
 
There are definitely pilots that I wouldn't fly with but I know that from being at the airport a lot and observing their risk tolerance (such as landing with fumes in the tank after a long cross country or leaving a plane idling unattended to warm up while they did something else) or their aircraft maintenance choices. I would accept a local joy ride in decent weather from a pilot that I wasn't familiar with unless I spotted obvious indications of conditions that I wasn't comfortable with such as daredevil boasting, aircraft condition, etc. There may then be some that I wouldn't fly with a second time just like there are drivers that I won't ride in a car with after a first experience. The concerns are mainly to do with mental attitudes although I can think of one that I wouldn't fly with due to demonstrated lack of stick and rudder skills.
 
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You grabbed the yoke?? Not informed him or asked him if he would like some help, but you *grabbed* the yoke??
Yes, I grabbed the yoke, put in full power got the airplane flying at the same time I said I've got it and don't do that. He was attempting to retract the flaps. We had already bounced twice and I was not letting that arc complete itself to the nose wheel on the ground a third time. There was no time for a conversation or worrying about someone's feelings. He was much less proficient than I anticipated, but he was the best line boy the FBO ever had. He later went on to a non-flying job in the aviation industry.
 
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