Do you use a digital logbook application?

[Captain]

I haven't used paper in over 7,000 horses of flight. I've used mostly LogBookPro with a short stint with LogTen. My system...

-Log leg by leg on iPad into LBP

-Sync

-At home verify sync and save a copy to a thumb drive

-I have Carbonite (Carbonite.com) that backs up a third copy to the cloud.


As for endorsements: my company is pretty much all digital now. When I take a checkride or do any training event the instructor hands me their iPad with the form filled out. I read it and then tap a signature box. When tapped a dialogue box opens up and asks who's signing. I tap 'customer' and a screen opens with just a signature line. I sign with my finger and write my employee number and tap close. Then my signature hovers over the initial box and I just size and position it and tap 'save'. Now my signature is on the PDF form.

I don't know of any log book program's that allow for that but I share because the technology is there and could be utilised. As CEO of a digital logbook company maybe you could get that implemented.

 

[ChrisK]

I haven't used paper in over 7,000 horses of flight.

So, Pegasus?

 

[Captain]

Grrrr, auto correct...


"hours" not "horses"

 

[Anymouse]

Grrrr, auto correct...


"hours" not "horses"

I thought you were just being humorous.

 

[fgcason]

But those days are behind us. Embrace the future, my friend.

Hogwash. They're not behind us. The data problems have simply moved from hardware failures to software/support failures and profit induced obsolescence.

Company creates a logbook. You put weeks of annoying effort into loading 1000 hours into it. Two months later, the new improved version comes out and supports the older data format with errors. A year later, you have to do a data conversion to move from V16 to V17. Two years later you find out that the data conversion software had a bug and ate your homework and the FAA says you're full of it on the tailwheel checkout you insist you have by an instructor that can't remember you and lost his logbooks somehow. Five years later the company discontinues the software. A year after that, the new computers won't run the old software at all and the company has been out of business for a couple years and you can't fish out your data.

Now you have 2500 hours that you must find new electronic logbook software and (a) write custom software yourself to do a data conversion then go back through it manually to verify the conversion worked perfectly for every entry which you can't do because you can't get the new computer to run the old software and the old data format looks like a cross between hex and some 2 year old kid pushing buttons on the keyboard or (b) start typing from your duplicate paper entries you luckily kept up to date and hope there is some way for the digital signatures from 30 years ago can be handled in an method acceptable to the administrator because the DPE that gave you your license and multiple checkouts is dead from old age.

Can you trust a hole in the wall software company to be around and supporting their low profit product in 20-40 years? You can't even trust MS that much and that company basically rules the computer world.

 

[FlyWithScott]

I use Logbook Pro as well. I've been instructing for a few years now and use the iPad to track almost everything. With Logbook Pro I enter my flights on the iPad, sync, then back it all up on the computer and external hard drive. My iPhone also has LBP and serves the same function as the iPad. I keep a paper logbook for my flight reviews and other endorsements that I get.

To record endorsements, citizenship documents, photos, and other records for my students, I use Corkulous Pro. I can set up a bulletin board for each student that is password protected, and store photos of all of their records and endorsements. Also use the notes in it to track progress. It's a nice one stop shop for when I get audited or need to look up info for a returning student that I haven't seen in six months.

 

[Anymouse]

Hogwash. They're not behind us. The data problems have simply moved from hardware failures to software/support failures and profit induced obsolescence.

Company creates a logbook. You put weeks of annoying effort into loading 1000 hours into it. Two months later, the new improved version comes out and supports the older data format with errors. A year later, you have to do a data conversion to move from V16 to V17. Two years later you find out that the data conversion software had a bug and ate your homework and the FAA says you're full of it on the tailwheel checkout you insist you have by an instructor that can't remember you and lost his logbooks somehow. Five years later the company discontinues the software. A year after that, the new computers won't run the old software at all and the company has been out of business for a couple years and you can't fish out your data.

Now you have 2500 hours that you must find new electronic logbook software and (a) write custom software yourself to do a data conversion then go back through it manually to verify the conversion worked perfectly for every entry which you can't do because you can't get the new computer to run the old software and the old data format looks like a cross between hex and some 2 year old kid pushing buttons on the keyboard or (b) start typing from your duplicate paper entries you luckily kept up to date and hope there is some way for the digital signatures from 30 years ago can be handled in an method acceptable to the administrator because the DPE that gave you your license and multiple checkouts is dead from old age.

Can you trust a hole in the wall software company to be around and supporting their low profit product in 20-40 years? You can't even trust MS that much and that company basically rules the computer world.

Dude! You live a hard life!

 

[JeffDG]

Title 15 of the Code of Federal Regulations covers Commerce and Foreign Trade.

Yep, and absent the authority over commerce between the states, the FAA has no authority to regulate air travel.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Hogwash. They're not behind us. The data problems have simply moved from hardware failures to software/support failures and profit induced obsolescence.

Company creates a logbook. You put weeks of annoying effort into loading 1000 hours into it. Two months later, the new improved version comes out and supports the older data format with errors. A year later, you have to do a data conversion to move from V16 to V17. Two years later you find out that the data conversion software had a bug and ate your homework and the FAA says you're full of it on the tailwheel checkout you insist you have by an instructor that can't remember you and lost his logbooks somehow. Five years later the company discontinues the software. A year after that, the new computers won't run the old software at all and the company has been out of business for a couple years and you can't fish out your data.

I really haven't seen that happen since I started playing with computers in 1988.

Yes, applications and proprieties database formats have changed. And yes, it's conceivable that if you haven't touched your data for 5 years you could end up with something unreadable or very expensive to read (the law of e-discovery is replete with those examples). But, practically speaking, none of the changes in the type of application we're talking about have taken place so rapidly that there was not a leisurely time to make the adjustment and everything I've seen through the years has been able to read/write csv.

I don't use a commercial logbook app but my homegrown one started with a DOS flat file database called "File Express" and moved through Paradox DOS and Windows before finally residing in MS-Access (where it went through multiple version changes). It's all been both simple and painless.

OTOH, I have a number of paper documents 10-20 years old in storage that have wilted and crumbled.

 

[Jaybird180]

I suppose it could be like the Wings Program where you request credit, the FAA sends an email to the CFI, he/she verifies and you get the credit.

The logbook site could work the same way. You do the work, request a boiler plate endorsement paragraph for tail wheel for example, the logbook sends an email to your CFI, he/she sends back yea verily, and they add the name and number of the CFI.

If it worked that way, paper could vanish (except I would keep the paper anyway in case the site went out of business). :wink2:

Might take an official FAA approval of the process in which case, I abandon hope.

Cheers

This would work if there were an agreed upon and widely accepted mechanism for non-repudiation (digital signatures), but sadly there isn't.

This would be a valid IPC endorsement. It is an electronic record, logically associated with a record, executed by a person (CFI) with the intent to sign the record.

See above

Have you recently tried to find a reader for RWX MODs (such as you would find on a micro-VAX) ? Do you still have a reader for 8in or 5 1/4 floppy discs ?

Media and data format obsolecence is real. We ARE in a world of hurt already.

I still have some 5-1/4 discs and 3.5" discs (and maybe a data-casette somewhere), but the data on them is OBE. Who wants to play DONKEY anymore?

 

[Jaybird180]

I should have noted the date and time of this thread...

 

[MickYoumans]

I have a spreadsheet logbook I setup on my iPad. When I complete a flight, I close out WingX, open up my spreadsheet log and enter the date, flight info, tach, and hobbs times. When I get a chance I will eventually copy the information over to my paper logbook, usually after I get a page worth of flights to enter. I still consider my paper logbook my official record. The iPad log is just for temporary convience.

 

[Jaybird180]

I have a spreadsheet logbook I setup on my iPad. When I complete a flight, I close out WingX, open up my spreadsheet log and enter the date, flight info, tach, and hobbs times. When I get a chance I will eventually copy the information over to my paper logbook, usually after I get a page worth of flights to enter. I still consider my paper logbook my official record. The iPad log is just for temporary convience.

What speadsheet app are you using? I need a better one.