Do you need a new W&B after paint?

Ron Levy said:
If that should occur, I suppose the mechanic involved has the choice of using the new weight or signing off on "negligible" -- if that should occur. JOOC, how many times have you seen that happen upon weighing an aircraft after a full strip and repaint? Or do you just routinely sign it off as "negligible" without further thought?
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Quite often, The repair prior to the repaint most times requires a new weight and balance to complete the return to service.
Removing 1 layer of paint and replacing it does not change the weight of an aircraft. Cessna says the total weight of the paint on a 172 is 15 pounds difference between a polished one and a painted one.
 
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Tom-D said:
Quite often, The repair prior to the repaint most times requires a new weight and balance to complete the return to service.
Removing 1 layer of paint and replacing it does not change the weight of an aircraft. Cessna says the total weight of the paint on a 172 is 15 pounds difference between a polished one and a painted one.
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...with the original factory paint. Is the weight of a nice, thick urethane paint job with a lot of color solids the same as the weight of the skimpy mostly white enamel paint with which Cessnas used to come from the factory?

My only point in all this is that at the end of the day, it's a judgement call made by whoever returns the aircraft to service. There's nothing which says weighing is not required after stripping and painting, and nothing which says it is required -- it's all situations. So if your paint shop says it's fine as a "negligible," that's fine, but if they say weighing is needed before returning the aircraft to service, there's no FAA document you can wave in their face to say it's not.
 
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Ron Levy said:
...with the original factory paint. Is the weight of a nice, thick urethane paint job with a lot of color solids the same as the weight of the skimpy mostly white enamel paint with which Cessnas used to come from the factory?
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Actually the new Ura products are lighter because they go on thinner than the old lacquer/enamel systems, they look thicker / shinier but they really don't weigh as much, that said it really isn't that much different.

My original point, if you don't weigh it, how do you know you didn't change the weight?

If you weigh it, and there is no difference, no problem, If it did change, isn't it better to document that?

The present project in progress by an owner is a 210 being restored after a crunching experience, it went the airframe repair, then required to be airworthy before it could fly to the paint shop. then had to be airworthy before it could fly to the avionics shop, and again to the upholstery shop.

How many times was it returned to service and how many times should it have been weighed?
 
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Skylane81E said:
Required or not it isnt a bad idea
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Think of it this way, How many occasions does a A&P get to tell an owner you need to weigh this aircraft before I return it to service?

knowing the W&B sheet is 15 years old, and it is your Ticket at risk, what would you do?
 
Tom-D said:
My original point, if you don't weigh it, how do you know you didn't change the weight? If you weigh it, and there is no difference, no problem, If it did change, isn't it better to document that?
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Thank you for making the point I've been trying to make all along. Considering it costs about $10K to strip and paint a 4-seater these days, and maybe $100 to weigh it, what's the big frappin' deal?
 
Tom-D said:
Think of it this way, How many occasions does a A&P get to tell an owner you need to weigh this aircraft before I return it to service?

knowing the W&B sheet is 15 years old, and it is your Ticket at risk, what would you do?
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Not that I'll ever do a full paint job again, but if I did I'd set it on my scales as part of the deal.

Heck part 135 multi planes have to be scaled regulary, it's not bad idea to do from time to time.
 
Oh and fwiw I've seen planes that were painted over the old paint without a trip to the scales, or any other w&b data.

Now that we should all be able to agree is NOT a negligable change.
 
Ron Levy said:
Thank you for making the point I've been trying to make all along. Considering it costs about $10K to strip and paint a 4-seater these days, and maybe $100 to weigh it, what's the big frappin' deal?
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OBTW, the cheapest refinish job on the 210 I could get a quote for was $15k.

that was in Canada they said they could strip and repaint with out removing the flight controls. ( I'm thinking Yeah right) bye.
 
Tom-D said:
Several paint shops around here have neither, they hire a certified person to come inspect the work and return it to service.

When I am asked to do that, they can expect to show me:
1. how they did the re-weighing and the results of it.
2. how they balanced the flight controls.
3. how they checked the throws of each after re-installation.
5. The entry in the maintenance records.
6. how they verified the static system still works.
7. where they recorded the color codes for the paint they used.
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Nice list. It's what I'd expect, and no part of this list is trivial, or optional.
 
Ron Levy said:
Thank you for making the point I've been trying to make all along. Considering it costs about $10K to strip and paint a 4-seater these days, and maybe $100 to weigh it, what's the big frappin' deal?
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It cost me around $250 to do a W&B on a cherokee 140 back in 2003. I don't remember exactly how much, but definitely more than $100.

Anyway, if I ever painted my airplane you can bet that (1) it would be completely stripped, (2) corrosion dealt with, and (3) it would get weighed.
 
FAR 91.400 places the responsibility of maintaining the aircraft directly on the owner/operator.

Maintaining the W&B records are included in that responsibility, So to answer the OPs question, isn't it their responsibility to have the aircraft weighed when they believe the W&B sheet is wrong?
 
If you own a Cessna, it probably came out of the factory with a W&B that is WAY off. I've never seen one accurate.
 
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