Do you have insurance?

There is currently no federal requirement that the owner or driver of a private automobile carry insurance to cover injuries to passengers or a third party on the ground.

Fixed it for him
 
I was going to post this question a few weeks ago. I was going to title it..

Do you fly naked....

For they call flying without insurance flying naked. I know not one person who flies a single seat EAB that has insurance.

I myself looked for insurance for my EAB. I found one company who wants over $800 a year for "not in motion" insurance. After hanging up the phone I needed a shower for I felt molested.

Tony
 
How about google car crash

Or

CHF, COPD, MI, diabetes, etc

If they really want to play statics and be the safety police.

Let's make a federal law where we round up all the fatties and lock them in exercise camps, they are put on a liquid diet and not released until they reach target BMI, then they have to check in at the police station for weigh ins and BMI checks, bust it and back to fat camp.

Heck being fat causes FAR more deaths then our lil non-121 airplanes.

Pass that law and I bet the NY Times would have a chit fit!
 
Only in the times,more big government intervention,and maybe some new fees.
 
1600vw said:
I was going to post this question a few weeks ago. I was going to title it..

Do you fly naked....

For they call flying without insurance flying naked. I know not one person who flies a single seat EAB that has insurance.

I myself looked for insurance for my EAB. I found one company who wants over $800 a year for "not in motion" insurance. After hanging up the phone I needed a shower for I felt molested.

Tony
Click to expand...
What was the hull value?
 
paflyer said:
"Because the rules are looser for general aviation than for commercial planes, the risks are much higher."
Click to expand...
Well, that's true enough by itself, and there are plenty of statistics to prove it. Of course, the consequences of a commercial airliner hitting the ground are orders of magnitude greater than a light GA plane hitting the ground -- compare 9/11 to the 172 which hit the office building in Tampa a few weeks later.
 
I'm seriously considering not going with insurance for my Sonex. Trying to get reasonable coverage during the flight test period has been quite an experience. The best I could find was $1300 for the hull ($25,000 value) and $1100 for liabilty. They don't cover passangers and want a bunch of more tailwheel time and 5 hours dual in a sonex before the coverage would become effective. I am looking into the US ultralight association coverage right now. About $450 a year for liablity only without passanger coverage. That would at least cover me if I damaged someones property or groundlooped into another plane.

Keith
 
kmacht said:
I'm seriously considering not going with insurance for my Sonex. Trying to get reasonable coverage during the flight test period has been quite an experience. The best I could find was $1300 for the hull ($25,000 value) and $1100 for liabilty. They don't cover passangers and want a bunch of more tailwheel time and 5 hours dual in a sonex before the coverage would become effective. I am looking into the US ultralight association coverage right now. About $450 a year for liablity only without passanger coverage. That would at least cover me if I damaged someones property or groundlooped into another plane.

Keith
Click to expand...
Wow. My policy with $85k hull value (c-172)and a million liability is $700/yr.
 
James331 said:
...Heck being fat causes FAR more deaths then our lil non-121 airplanes.

Pass that law and I bet the NY Times would have a chit fit!
Click to expand...

No they probably wouldn't. I'd be happy to elaborate further in the Spin Zone.
 
James331 said:
How about google car crash

Or

CHF, COPD, MI, diabetes, etc

If they really want to play statics and be the safety police.

Let's make a federal law where we round up all the fatties and lock them in exercise camps, they are put on a liquid diet and not released until they reach target BMI, then they have to check in at the police station for weigh ins and BMI checks, bust it and back to fat camp.

Heck being fat causes FAR more deaths then our lil non-121 airplanes.

Pass that law and I bet the NY Times would have a chit fit!
Click to expand...

In most of your examples you are killing yourself. That should be perfectly legal and you should accept the risk for yourself. But some poor schmuck on the ground has no say in the risk you present to him. If you want to fly with no hull insurance or no personal medical insurance that is your business. But I think every pilot should have liability insurance.

If the occurrence of these accidents is as small as some people make out then the rates should reflect that.
 
paflyer said:
What was the hull value?
Click to expand...


25K. not worth spending 800 bucks a year on for " not in Motion " insurance. I worry about a storm taking out the hangar and being without an airplane. Not so much me crashing it or something. That would be on me. I can deal with that. A storm is harder to take. I did not cause that.
 
Gerhardt said:
I concur. And if every pilot carried liability the rates would be much lower.
Click to expand...

If you have an aircraft in a municipal hangar you likely have insurance; all the hangars around my metropolis require this. If you owe any money on the aircraft you'll need insurance, the bank won't loan it to you without. I would imagine most club aircraft are insured as well. Perhaps there are idiotic municipalities (well, OK I'll concede that point) or idiotic insurers, but I imagine this snags a LOT of airframes.

I'll wager that the majority of pilots flying are covered under some form of insurance. Like Henning said, a vast minority of a vast minority.
 
JOhnH said:
In most of your examples you are killing yourself. That should be perfectly legal and you should accept the risk for yourself. But some poor schmuck on the ground has no say in the risk you present to him. If you want to fly with no hull insurance or no personal medical insurance that is your business. But I think every pilot should have liability insurance.

If the occurrence of these accidents is as small as some people make out then the rates should reflect that.
Click to expand...

And in that case if you're worried about something happening to you buy insurance, if not don't.

Insurance compensates for risks, and more so now, for fear.

If you are scared about risk, why should I have to pay.

It is what it is, however I think the whole premises is just about profit.
 
1600vw said:
I was going to post this question a few weeks ago. I was going to title it..

Do you fly naked....

For they call flying without insurance flying naked. I know not one person who flies a single seat EAB that has insurance.

I myself looked for insurance for my EAB. I found one company who wants over $800 a year for "not in motion" insurance. After hanging up the phone I needed a shower for I felt molested.

Tony
Click to expand...
If one study's the accident reports and the stupid mistakes ag pilots make, it's no wonder rates are high, not to mention low time pilots wandering around, pilots who think radios are for sissys, etc.
 
I hope you have some kind of major aviation background if you're going to be throwing the 137 pilot population under the buss as bad pilots :nono:
 
James331 said:
And in that case if you're worried about something happening to you buy insurance, if not don't.

Insurance compensates for risks, and more so now, for fear.

If you are scared about risk, why should I have to pay.

It is what it is, however I think the whole premises is just about profit.
Click to expand...

The obvious problem is that people who "choose" not to buy insurance but in fact cannot afford to pay for their damages have successfully off-loaded the risk of loss onto their unwitting victims.

And yes, when you make any product mandatory, the price will rise to squeeze the forced demand. When shopping for car insurance recently I was shocked by how little the optional coverages cost per dollar of coverage, vs. the mandatory coverages (like liabilty & PIP). Needless to say even a fairly priced insurance requriement would further stress GenAv flying, which is shrinking already.

I don't think the data is there to establish that planes falling out of the sky onto hapless victims who ultimately go uncompensated is a broad-based problem requiring legislation. If we're going to make decisions to legislate based on popular mythology as opposed to fact, then every private pilot is a rich fat cat with enough bucks to be gotten after the post-crash lawsuit, right?
 
DJTorrente said:
The obvious problem is that people who "choose" not to buy insurance but in fact cannot afford to pay for their damages have successfully off-loaded the risk of loss onto their unwitting victims.

And yes, when you make any product mandatory, the price will rise to squeeze the forced demand. When shopping for car insurance recently I was shocked by how little the optional coverages cost per dollar of coverage, vs. the mandatory coverages (like liabilty & PIP). Needless to say even a fairly priced insurance requriement would further stress GenAv flying, which is shrinking already.

I don't think the data is there to establish that planes falling out of the sky onto hapless victims who ultimately go uncompensated is a broad-based problem requiring legislation. If we're going to make decisions to legislate based on popular mythology as opposed to fact, then every private pilot is a rich fat cat with enough bucks to be gotten after the post-crash lawsuit, right?
Click to expand...

Thus is free will, buy insurance or don't, pluses and minuses ether way, we still are free to make that decision for ourself as adults.

No one has the right to pick and choose which products or services I buy with my money from my labors.

See "The Broccoli Theory"

I kinda stepped on a soap box here, I'll kindly get off it now lol
 
1600vw said:
I was going to post this question a few weeks ago. I was going to title it..

Do you fly naked....

For they call flying without insurance flying naked. I know not one person who flies a single seat EAB that has insurance.

I myself looked for insurance for my EAB. I found one company who wants over $800 a year for "not in motion" insurance. After hanging up the phone I needed a shower for I felt molested.

Tony
Click to expand...


I am naked........

NO company in the world would write a policy on my death trap..:no::no:
 
James331 said:
Thus is free will, buy insurance or don't, pluses and minuses ether way, we still are free to make that decision for ourself as adults.

No one has the right to pick and choose which products or services I buy with my money from my labors.

See "The Broccoli Theory"

I kinda stepped on a soap box here, I'll kindly get off it now lol
Click to expand...

Don't agree at all. If you crash your plane into a house causing $300,000 in damage then why shouldn't you pay for that damage? If you kill yourself in the process, then you can't pay...it should be required that you have insurance to do so.

On a related note. If you're flying "sport pilot" without a medical because you know at you have a condition that would keep you from passing the medical, and you plow into that same house then your insurance won't cover the claim...even if you have insurance.

At least that's my understanding (as relayed by my insurance carrier when I inquired)...the sport pilot is still required be as healthy as the requirements of the third class medical. It's just that you are self certifying.
 
timwinters said:
On a related note. If you're flying "sport pilot" without a medical because you know at you have a condition that would keep you from passing the medical, and you plow into that same house then your insurance won't cover the claim...even if you have insurance.

At least that's my understanding (as relayed by my insurance carrier when I inquired)...the sport pilot is still required be as healthy as the requirements of the third class medical. It's just that you are self certifying.
Click to expand...
Where in the regulations does it say that?

Have you (or your insurance carrier) ever heard of an actual denial because someone didn't meet the standards that they are not required to meet?
 
I have no insurance on my Flybaby right now. I did for awhile, but at over $1,000/yr for coverage on a $10,000 airplane was kind of painful.

That said, I'll be getting it insured again before heading to Airventure. Probably going to skip the motion coverage this time though, should keep the price down.

I don't think I'll go without liability anymore though. I can just picture the thing getting away from me during a prop start and hammering it's way through a new citation or something.
 
timwinters said:
Don't agree at all. If you crash your plane into a house causing $300,000 in damage then why shouldn't you pay for that damage? If you kill yourself in the process, then you can't pay...it should be required that you have insurance to do so.

On a related note. If you're flying "sport pilot" without a medical because you know at you have a condition that would keep you from passing the medical, and you plow into that same house then your insurance won't cover the claim...even if you have insurance.

At least that's my understanding (as relayed by my insurance carrier when I inquired)...the sport pilot is still required be as healthy as the requirements of the third class medical. It's just that you are self certifying.
Click to expand...


And if you have a 300k house and you're worried about someone destroying it and not having the $$$ to fix it, you're free to buy insurance for that.

I have some things I don't insure, and I take that risk, let's not forget insurance is a product, buy it if it fits your wants and needs.

When I had my car in SoCal we had a problem with illegals driving, most had no insurance, license or English, heck by their mere presence they were felons. During this time I had full coverage on my car complete with uninsured motorist coverage, etc.

I perceived a threat, found a product to combat that threat and purchased it.


Now I live in a more mellow law abiding area and have little need for that product, do I have a chance of a person or animal or whatever destroying my car and me being out the repair/replace cost, SURE, but I made the CHOICE not to buy that product.
 
James331 said:
And if you have a 300k house and you're worried about someone destroying it and not having the $$$ to fix it, you're free to buy insurance for that.
Click to expand...

Remind me to never transact business with you.
 
James331 said:
Now I live in a more mellow law abiding area and have little need for that product, do I have a chance of a person or animal or whatever destroying my car and me being out the repair/replace cost, SURE, but I made the CHOICE not to buy that product.
Click to expand...

We're talking about liability insurance for planes, not collision insurance for cars.
 
My point is or was, forcing folks to buy ANY kind of insurance for something like a house, plane, car, boat, is not right. Unless this is something in your finance deal that both parties agree to, it's just a product and I don't believe people should be forced to buy products. Sorry :dunno:
 
If I had to put insurance on my 3 planes, motorcycle, jet ski, boat and 3 vehicles I would not have money to eat... I take the risk and put liability on the cars and bike. The other stuff does not have any insurance. I don't like giving these companies everything I work for.... Feel free to give them your money if you want.
 
pigpenracing said:
If I had to put insurance on my 3 planes, motorcycle, jet ski, boat and 3 vehicles I would not have money to eat... I take the risk and put liability on the cars and bike. The other stuff does not have any insurance. I don't like giving these companies everything I work for.... Feel free to give them your money if you want.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you need to contact a good financial advisor.
 
I am a good financial advisor... If I wasn't I would be in debt up to my ass and not own anything like the rest of America :)
Having money invested in airplanes has been great for me. I seem to double my money on them when its time to sell.
Maybe you need a financial advisor......
 
timwinters said:
14 CFR 61.23(c)(2)(iv)
Click to expand...
says nothing about meeting the requirements of a first, second, or third class medical.

"(iv) Not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner"

Try again.
 
Last edited:
James331 said:
Not that it matters, but whys that?
Click to expand...

Because you display the attitude that you won't hesitate to screw others to benefit yourself and benefitting yourself is all that matters.

I won't do business with people who hold that attitude if I can help it.
 
Lol where the he11 did you get that??

Based on the products and services I buy I only care about me? Drink the kool aid much?

Bet you think you meet the nicest people riding a Honda?

That you'll be more interesting if you drink dos equis?

I take full rsponosbility for my actions, I just don't believe people should be forced to buy a product.
 
I have insurance on my plane, because it's financed. I do not believe that we should be forced by regulations to buy insurance. It should be a matter of personal choice.
 
James331 said:
Lol where the he11 did you get that??

Based on the products and services I buy I only care about me? Drink the kool aid much?

Bet you think you meet the nicest people riding a Honda?

That you'll be more interesting if you drink dos equis?

I take full rsponosbility for my actions, I just don't believe people should be forced to buy a product.
Click to expand...

I think he took exception to your implication that one should be responsible for the actions of others by telling him to go buy insurance for the 300K if he was that concerned about uninsured people plowing through his house. That sounded like condoning an abrogation of personal responsibility on the part of the wrongful party while simultaneously preaching personal responsibility as the central theme of your position. I infer the other poster was hinting a "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" in his response.

Telling someone it is THEIR ultimate responsibility to insure against the irresponsibility of others seems out of place with the rest of your position. I mean I get it, you can't count on anyone these days, but why give them a pass though?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
"(iv) Not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner"
Click to expand...

For all intents and purposes that is the definition of a third class medical. My insurance agent and AME both hold this opinion.

My AME brought it up so I discussed it with my agent. He agreed and...

I concur too.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top