Do you have insurance for your airplane?

What's your airplane insurance coverage?

  • None

    Votes: 9 11.0%

  • Liability only 100/300K

    Votes: 4 4.9%

  • Liability only 1MM Smooth

    Votes: 1 1.2%

  • Liability only more than 1MM Smooth

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Hull plus 100/300K

    Votes: 24 29.3%

  • Hull plus 1MM Smooth

    Votes: 36 43.9%

  • Hull plus more than 1MM Smooth

    Votes: 2 2.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 6 7.3%
  • Total voters
    82
John Baker

John Baker

Final Approach
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
7,471
Location
San Diego, California
Display Name
Display name:
John Baker
About a year ago, someone mentioned to me that about half of all pilots who own their own airplanes, do not have insurance on them. Do you fly without insurance, or if you rent, have you actually looked at the aircraft owners insurance policy to see how well you actually are protected? Do you have renters insurance?

John
 
I think you may need to clarify your original premise. You ask if owners don't have insurance on them. Then you ask if anyone flies without insurance.

There are two parts of a typical insurance policy. There is the liability coverage, and then hull coverage. The liability part protects you from a loss if you damage other persons or property. Hull coverage protects you from loss of your own aircraft.

I carry lots of liability coverage, I carry no hull coverage.
 
I carry both liability and hull insurance on my airplane. All aircraft registered in Minnesota are required to have liability insurance.
 
I rent, and carry Renters insurance for Liability and 60K hull damage. As much as I can afford right now.

Current FBO renters agreement requires that I either have insurance, or can pony up the $5000 deductible should something happen.

Former Flight School required I have own Hull and Liabilty renters insurance to solo the aircraft, as they didn't have any coverage extending to students/renters at all.
 
Renting - they have a no-subrogation clause in the policy at the school, so I let my rental coverage lapse. Deductible is $1000.00.

When I rented elsewhere, I kept liability high and a small amount ($30K) of hull insurance as coverage against subrogation.
 
I carry 1MM smooth plus hull on the Baron and 300/100 in the Porterfield (all I can get). The per seat limit on the taildragger is moot since there's only one pax at a time.
 
We carry hull and liability.
When I was renting, I carried enough rental insurance to cover the deductible.
 
Poll: What's your aircraft insurance coverage?

The current thread on insurance made me do this. Pick the closest choice or pick "other" and explain. A comment on your rationale would be nice too.
 
I carry liability only, for about $200/year.

I know several homebuilt owners that operate completely bare. Their attitude is that if they bend the plane, they'll fix it themselves. Liability-wise, they figure their pockets are so shallow it probably won't matter (and they'll probably be dead, anyway...).

Ron Wanttaja
 
Re: Poll: What's your aircraft insurance coverage?

90k hull and 5 mil liability.
 
Re: Poll: What's your aircraft insurance coverage?

If I have to fix it it keeps me outa trouble.

Dan
 
The club planes I fly have a minimal amount of hull and liability. The experimental has nothing at all. I don't do anything wrong when I fly so if something happens and somebody wants to bring suit, let them do it and see what they get for their "effort".
 
Re: Poll: What's your aircraft insurance coverage?

1M smooth liability. I have a lot of assets to shelter.

Funny thing about liability coverage. I investigated a umbrella policy for myself and my wife so that no matter what we do(non-criminal), we would have insurance for our asset coverage. When they found out I was a pilot, the premiums became astronomical.
 
The glider usually gets full coverage. I am usally most concerned about vandalism or theft if I am leaving it tied down outside. Also concerned about some driver T-boning it in an intersection while in the trailer. I also occasionally will let other pilots fly it.

I have done only liablity a few years when I wasn't taking it to contests or remote flying sites. i.e. it stays in the hanger in its trailer except when I am flying it. I Figure if I damage it bad enough I can't fix it I probably won't be in any shape to fix it.


I am partnered with 4 other glider pilots in a 1976 Bellanca Scout (Our tow plane) We have tried insuring it several different ways. We started off with full coverage for instruction and towing. This was very expensive as in over $6k per year. We tried liablity only one year but decided it was not worth the risk, espeically when doing tailwheel instuction. After couple a years we decided that we were not doing enough instruction in it to pay for the additional insurance. So we dropped the instruction and insured it for glider towing only, Full coverage. This is a much more reasonable cost. This does limit what we can do with it, but since I am the only owner rated and current to fly it and I have access to other aircraft this really is not an issue.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Avemco has been quoted that roughly half of their claims are based on ground damage. Wind damage, hail, taxi accidents, hangar rash, vandalism, etc.
 
I can't believe so many people fly without hull insurance! I'd think that if you have a loan on the plane the bank would require it, so unless you own the plane outright AND can afford a total hull loss, not carrying hull insurance seems foolish.

It also seems like it could lead to poor decisionmaking. Too many pilots try to save the plane, and some kill themselves in the process. So much for the "insurance company owns the plane" idea if you have a malfunction. Seems like an excessively bad idea to me!
 
wabower said:
Avemco has been quoted that roughly half of their claims are based on ground damage. Wind damage, hail, taxi accidents, hangar rash, vandalism, etc.
Click to expand...

My one and only claim was vandalism that occurred while the plane was at an FBO for it's annual inspection. The FOB's insurance wouldn't cover the damage (about $12k) and my insurer (AIG) didn't fight it.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I can't believe so many people fly without hull insurance! I'd think that if you have a loan on the plane the bank would require it, so unless you own the plane outright AND can afford a total hull loss, not carrying hull insurance seems foolish.
Click to expand...

Losing my plane will not change my lifestyle. It's a luxury, not a necessity. I won't insure against a loss that will not change my lifestyle. The last time I paid for collision on a vehicle was 1993. That's when I paid off the loan. since then, I've bought used cars with cash. If I total one, I'll buy another. I figure I've saved enough in premiums to pay for it.
 
What would one big lawsuit, or even defending it, do to those economics? Or do you insure for liability on the plane too?

Steve Foley said:
Losing my plane will not change my lifestyle. It's a luxury, not a necessity. I won't insure against a loss that will not change my lifestyle. The last time I paid for collision on a vehicle was 1993. That's when I paid off the loan. since then, I've bought used cars with cash. If I total one, I'll buy another. I figure I've saved enough in premiums to pay for it.
Click to expand...
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I can't believe so many people fly without hull insurance!
Click to expand...

I can't believe so many people waste money on hull insurance! Loss rates are so low if one flies safely. Put the gear down, stay out of IMC, and do decent mx and your chance of a loss are microscopic. Even if you do loose the plane, it's just a personal loss, nothing like getting hammered by crashing into a house or something.

Folks who fly with hull insurance prolly don't care about crashing the plane if something goes wrong. Heck, they just figure the insurance company owns it anyway, so why bother to fly or maintain it right.
 
docmirror said:
Folks who fly with hull insurance prolly don't care about crashing the plane if something goes wrong. Heck, they just figure the insurance company owns it anyway, so why bother to fly or maintain it right.
Click to expand...

Bravo Sierra.:mad3:
 
docmirror said:
I can't believe so many people waste money on hull insurance! Loss rates are so low if one flies safely. Put the gear down, stay out of IMC, and do decent mx and your chance of a loss are microscopic. Even if you do loose the plane, it's just a personal loss, nothing like getting hammered by crashing into a house or something.
Click to expand...

I can see self-insuring the hull if you own it outright, or if you like ****ing away money. It's not about remembering to put the gear down, it's when you put the gear knob down and it doesn't come down, or it collapses, or whatever. Or some guy who has no insurance at all runs into it on the ramp. Or it's parked outside in a storm and bounced off the tiedown ropes a few times, causing an issue where it wouldn't be airworthy any more. Or any other number of potential issues NOT caused by stupidity that may result in repair costs exceeding the value of the airplane.

Personally, I don't have the money to replace an airplane at the drop of a hat. :dunno:

Folks who fly with hull insurance prolly don't care about crashing the plane if something goes wrong. Heck, they just figure the insurance company owns it anyway, so why bother to fly or maintain it right.
Click to expand...

Riiiiiiiiight.

Well I can tell ya one thing, when the poop hits the prop I am saving my own butt first and foremost, and not worrying about how to save the plane because I can't afford to trash it.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I can't believe so many people fly without hull insurance! I'd think that if you have a loan on the plane the bank would require it, so unless you own the plane outright AND can afford a total hull loss, not carrying hull insurance seems foolish.
Click to expand...

Not EVERYONE owns a Bonanza, you know....

I own my airplane outright, and haven't had any accidents in the thirteen years I've owned it. I've "won the bet"; I've saved more by not paying hull insurance than what the airplane is worth. Heck, I could recoup the value of my airplane if it's destroyed just by not having to pay hangar rent for a couple of years....

Ron Wanttaja
 
I'd guess that the average hull value of people's planes is somewhere in the $50-70k range. If so, and if you're actually a safe pilot (those that think they're way ahead of the curve usually are not), maybe buying insurance for hull value isn't necessary. I probably wouldn't do it, because there isn't any dangerous weather here, and I can live with the tiny risk of losing $70k.

But if you're flying a plane with hull value in the $300-400k range, it's a different game. Now we're talking about a house vs. a fancy car. I would get hull for that, even if it is $6k/year.

-Felix
 
docmirror said:
Folks who fly with hull insurance prolly don't care about crashing the plane if something goes wrong. Heck, they just figure the insurance company owns it anyway, so why bother to fly or maintain it right.
Click to expand...
BS and baloney. I care very much about crashing the plane, because I'm in it. As for not maintaining it right, I'm rather fanatical about that, again because it's me inside.

Some of us don't have a choice about whether to carry hull insurance, you know.
 
I once decided that I could save money by not having hull insurance, so I dropped the hull but kept liability. Shortly after we were on a trip and the plane was tied down on the ramp. A line of strong thunder storms came through. After the storms passed we went to check on the plane. We found it had turned some in the tie downs as other plane around us. Made me wonder, what if the planes around me did not have any insurance and one broke free and flipped on my plane, who would pay? I reinstated full coverage right after that.
 
We thought about not insuring the Malibu when we first bought it. After thinking about the fact my 100 year old house (at a third of the price) had insurance, made us rethink the issue. We often haul customers back home or friends places, the employees use the 172 so we got insurance on both aircraft. It's interesting what effect three 10,000 hr pilots have on the insurance pricing on the Malibu.

Kevin
 
It looks like most people have Hull plus 100/300K or Hull plus 1MM Smooth. I have the latter but when I first started the policy I could only get the former.

This happened with two different insurance carrier. After a year of Hull plus 100/300K I was offered Hull plus 1MM for less than what I was paying. Is that a common thing in the aiurcraft insurance policy?
 
To paraphrase, insurance is the opiate of the masses...it goes along with the current trend of suiing someone every time you suffer some loss, regardless of the actual cause of the damage...it is why all the aircraft and automobile manufacturers are broke....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top